Originally posted by SaintSmurph
All that he said was that it was impressive... expanding on WHY it's impressive in later posts is not in fact changing an argument.Unfortunately for you, the internet is a crappy place to attempt to twist words concerning recent history.
nvr's post establishes the line of argumentation as being explicitly about physical stats.
Red Shift cites the planet smashing in reference to physical stats.
Then pr1983 jumps in citing Superman's feat as being more impressive than the planet smash.
But now I'm supposed to believe that he was merely making a point about Superman's intelligence?
GTFO of here with that nonsense.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
That's a rather low feat that you're using for Hyperion. Someone could mention Superman being immobilized by the current running through ordinary power lines.When Hyperion and Gladiator were matching power, they were exerting enough power to crush planets.
Says the comic?
We also have comics saying Hulk is strongest but we all know thats not true. 😉
But unlike the comic saying it, we have actual feats of that from Superman and Zod.
Originally posted by Tommy05
Says the comic?
You have to understand that Gruenwald wrote the Squadron Supreme maxi-series around the same time he wrote the Marvel handbooks. He was making a concentrated effort to get other writers to accept handbook stats as being literal, so that characters like Hyperion and Thor would be truly limited to 100 tons as a maximum. That's why he started the first issue right off the bat with Hyperion stating in bald exposition that 300 tons is three times his max.
By the time he was writing Quasar, he had given up on that battle and wrote Hyperion back up to normal Marvel top-tier levels, struggling against Gladiator with "planet-crushing force."
Originally posted by KK the Great
The one they desperately need to discredit so Gladiator isn't leagues beyond Wonder Woman in speed.
Which one?
Reacting in nanoseconds during the Hyperion fight? Present-day Gladiator.
Flying 100 times the speed of light? Present-day Gladiator.
Traveling many lightyears in less than a minute? Present-day Gladiator.
Operating at hyperspeed while exhausted? Future Gladiator.
Originally posted by KK the GreatIt seems to me to be much more logical that Pr simply made a response because someone was spouting about Glads planet smashing.
nvr's post establishes the line of argumentation as being explicitly about physical stats.Red Shift cites the planet smashing in reference to physical stats.
Then pr1983 jumps in citing Superman's feat as being more impressive than the planet smash.
But now I'm supposed to believe that he was merely making a point about Superman's intelligence?
GTFO of here with that nonsense.
Either way, unless you honestly thought (and think, evidently), that Pr didn't understand what was happening in a scan he posted, then the argument was CLEARLY not to do with strength, but with the fact that Kal doesn't need to use strength to accomplish much more impressive, yet similar things, as he is smarter, and more versatile.
So, the point was obvious. If you're arguing the basis or logic behind the point, that's another story.
Either way, simply attacking the sequence of posts does nothing. It doesn't prove that Gladiator wins, only that you'd rather attempt to discredit posters instead of actually debating.
Originally posted by SaintSmurph
It seems to me to be much more logical that Pr simply made a response because someone was spouting about Glads planet smashing.Either way, unless you honestly thought (and think, evidently), that Pr didn't understand what was happening in a scan he posted, then the argument was CLEARLY not to do with strength, but with the fact that Kal doesn't need to use strength to accomplish much more impressive, yet similar things, as he is smarter, and more versatile.
Poster A: Batman is much stronger than Captain America.
Poster B: Yeah right. Care to show me Batman lifting anything as heavy as objects Cap has lifted?
Poster C: That object is nothing compared to what Batman has done! [insert scan of Batman winning a chess tournament]
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Which one?Reacting in nanoseconds during the Hyperion fight? Present-day Gladiator.
Flying 100 times the speed of light? Present-day Gladiator.
Traveling many lightyears in less than a minute? Present-day Gladiator.
Operating at hyperspeed while exhausted? Future Gladiator.
Then it seems the feat he was citing is inadmissible.
😬.
Originally posted by Soljer
Then it seems the feat he was citing is inadmissible.😬.
It wasn't an Elseworlds-style alternate reality. They just traveled into the future. Gladiator and Reed even talked about their previous meeting in regular continuity, with Gladiator being surprised at Reed's lack of aging.
This is a character who has been around since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Reed and Co. traveling a few years into the future and running into him shouldn't negate the abilities he displays in the issue.
Originally posted by KK the Great
You have to understand that Gruenwald wrote the Squadron Supreme maxi-series around the same time he wrote the Marvel handbooks. He was making a concentrated effort to get other writers to accept handbook stats as being literal, so that characters like Hyperion and Thor would be truly limited to 100 tons as a maximum. That's why he started the first issue right off the bat with Hyperion stating in bald exposition that 300 tons is three times his max.By the time he was writing Quasar, he had given up on that battle and wrote Hyperion back up to normal Marvel top-tier levels, struggling against Gladiator with "planet-crushing force."
So Hyperion has got a second confrontation with him.
Got the scan the? Otherwise him being more powerful than him later is is speculation.
Originally posted by KK the GreatBut anything could have happened, a power up , whatever.
It wasn't an Elseworlds-style alternate reality. They just traveled into the future. Gladiator and Reed even talked about their previous meeting in regular continuity, with Gladiator being surprised at Reed's lack of aging.This is a character who has been around since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Reed and Co. traveling a few years into the future and running into him shouldn't negate the abilities he displays in the issue.
I actually agree that it can be used but see his point.
Originally posted by Tommy05
So Hyperion has got a second confrontation with him.Got the scan the? Otherwise him being more powerful than him later is is speculation.
I think you're misunderstanding me.
Gladiator and Hyperion have only fought once.
The "I can only lift 100 tons" thing happened in the first issue of the Squadron Supreme maxi-series, when Gruenwald was making an effort to force his handbook rating system into the comics.
Hyperion faced Gladiator years later, in the Quasar series. In that fight, they matched strength and were said to be exerting planet-crushing force.
Originally posted by KK the GreatWhich matters, why?
Poster A: Batman is much stronger than Captain America.Poster B: Yeah right. Care to show me Batman lifting anything as heavy as objects Cap has lifted?
Poster C: That object is nothing compared to what Batman has done! [insert scan of Batman winning a chess tournament]
What was evidently shown was that Superman is more intelligent, and uses this to accomplish vastly more impressive feats without even using strength.
If you still want to debate strength, do it with Nvr. Pr was simply making an entirely different point as to why Gladiator is Superman's clear inferior. Obviously.
The logical follow up question would be to ask if Wonder Woman used her powers as effectively as Superman, and debate the irrelevancy of the point from that view.
Instead, you've chosen to waste multiple posts and pages attempting to make posters look like idiots when nothing idiotic has been done or posted, from the likes of Pr at least.
Really, it seems that when backed in a corner, your only defense is to attack debating styles rather than actual points.
Oh, and, by the by... intelligence, when debating on a comic vs. forum, could be debated as a stat... which was the original argument.
Try to debate points instead of the correlation behind them (especially when that correlation exists).
Originally posted by Tommy05
I haven't saw the scan in ages. Got it?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/Jonathanos/Gladiator/GladPlanet1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/Jonathanos/Gladiator/Gladplanet2.jpg
Originally posted by KK the Great
I think you're misunderstanding me.Gladiator and Hyperion have only fought once.
The "I can only lift 100 tons" thing happened in the first issue of the Squadron Supreme maxi-series, when Gruenwald was making an effort to force his handbook rating system into the comics.
Hyperion faced Gladiator years later, in the Quasar series. In that fight, they matched strength and were said to be exerting planet-crushing force.
Well thats better explained.
Got the on panel proof of their planet crushing force, not just the comic saying that because how often are they right? Not doubting Gladiator can do it but its a point.
