Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
There is no in-universe explanation for why the Imperial forces suck compared to the Rebels. Maybe it's because the Rebels are mostly American while the Imperials are British?
There is an easy explanation for that: The Rebels have less troops and are idealists that actually care about their fighting force - the Empire doesn't do that, because it doesn't have to do it.
If you have 100 men for every opposing soldier, it simply doesn't matter if the enemy takes 10 of your men with him, because you have another 90 to defeat him after that.
Though, even the sourcebooks and visual guides go into great detail about how vastly superior the Empire is.
Better training? Check. Better equipment? Check. Greater loyalty? Check. Greater numbers? CHECK. Greater support ships? Check.
It's ridiculous. On paper, the Rebellion -- seriously -- had no chance. None. Zilch. Zero.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Doesn't role in the EU forum, Ushman.
Yes it does. They are clearly seen on film as being rubbish; their fame as being rubbish is from the films.
That trumps everything in the EU, no question. So anything that says they are lethal elite troops is obviously wrong, in being so monumentally obviousaly contradicted on-screen.
At Endor, despite the presence of the TIE Fighters from the entire Imperial navy, they don't knock out a single Rebel capital ship save fpr the ones the Death Star shoots. But the Rebels manage to knock out Star Destroyers and even the imperial flagship, whilst massacring many times their numbers in TIEs.
You just cannot run away from this, ignore it, or say it doesn't 'role'.
The Imperials were crap. It's fact- get used to it.
i disagree with better equipment. X-Wings were clearly superior to tie-fighters... i don't know if that could even be debated. Mon-Cal cruisers never seemed to lost to a star destroyer once on-film. Heck, modified Light-freighters have a huge technological advantage on hoards of the emporours tie-fighters as well.... besides, didn't an entire regiment of the emporers best troops lose to ewoks? how the heck is that explained? AT-ST's and AT-AT's are shown to be tactical nightmares, lacking any kind of practicality,
As for the Ewoks, there's a reason why it's called PIS.
TIE's vs. X-WIng? The TIE Fighter is faster and arguably more maneuverable.
The standard Imperial-Class Star Destroyer has an acceleration of over 2300 G's, and has an armament of over 98 guns.
The MonCal Cruises are inferior.
AT-AT impractical? I guess that's why they beat the snot out of the Rebels on Hoth then, huh?
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
TIE's vs. X-WIng? The TIE Fighter is faster and arguably more maneuverable.
actually... its faster.... this makes a difference in any dogfight we ever see it in... how? Its not as good as an X-Wing. Ask ANY pilot.
The standard Imperial-Class Star Destroyer has an acceleration of over 2300 G's, and has an armament of over 98 guns.
The MonCal Cruises are inferior.
in terms of combat, not so, as the star destroyers are destroyed more easily than mon-cals.
AT-AT impractical? I guess that's why they beat the snot out of the Rebels on Hoth then, huh?
The rebels on hoth took down a ridiculous number of AT-AT's in a fight in which they should have been wiped out without a fight.
And your comment about the Ewoks is relevant how? "best troops of the emporer" lost to Ewoks in a fight.... how can you even begin to defend that?
Originally posted by truejedi
actually... its faster.... this makes a difference in any dogfight we ever see it in... how? Its not as good as an X-Wing. Ask ANY pilot.
PIS.
in terms of combat, not so, as the star destroyers are destroyed more easily than mon-cals.
PIS.
The rebels on hoth took down a ridiculous number of AT-AT's in a fight in which they should have been wiped out without a fight.
They were wiped out. The Imperials lost, what, two or three At-AT's?
And your comment about the Ewoks is relevant how? "best troops of the emporer" lost to Ewoks in a fight.... how can you even begin to defend that? [/B]
You don't know what PIS is, do you? It's funny because you act like you do, but you probably don't.
i don't remember acting like i knew, in fact, i was going to continue to ignore the letters PIS, or else put something along the likes of NURW(no u r wrong) or MRHC (movies are highest canon) or TBU (they blew up) in order to continue the discussion... to be honest, the letters PIS didn't mean much to me, that is until i researched them, and they turn out to stand for the leading conservative political party in Poland.
(Prawo i SprawiedliwoϾ) Now if you say that THEY are all for the GE being the baddest fighting force in the galaxy, my counter is "screw the poles."
If i'm way off on YOUR definition of PIS, then you better explain it, because " a character doing something he should not be able to do" is a damn poor explanation for what happened at Endor... If you are trying to say the ewoks should not have been able to defeat the Empire, so therefore it doesn't count, then you better take that crap and pull it OUT of the star wars universe, because star wars is one place where THAT overused definition of PIS DOES NOT APPLY.
Following that piss-poor logic, i refuse to acknowledge Palpatine's force storm (he shouldn't have been able to do that, its just stupid) Boba- Fett living through the sarlaac (no way, the movie made it clear he was going to die...) and, a MUCH BETTER EXAMPLE: we should call Sidious's defeat of three jedi masters in a few seconds a PIS, because it never should have happened and we all know it.
Fact is: IT HAPPENED. say it shouldn't have happened all you want, but it did, and chances are, were the situation repeated, by the logic that we use on this forum, it WOULD HAPPEN AGAIN. (unless of course, Anakin is not really on the level of Dooku as of ROTS, becuase his sudden domination of Dooku is unnacceptable, and therefore a PIS., ditto for Grievous losing so pathetically,)
In fact, and in conclusion: If you try to use PIS ONE TIME in star wars, you destroy the VERY FOUNDATION that we use to analyze it.
So i know you weren't trying to use THAT definition of PIS, because that would be more stupid than i believe you possibly could be guilty of, so feel free to ignore those last few paragraphs describing that version of PIS, and feel free to argue with my official response: SCREW THE POLES.
Plot Induced Stupidity. A comic book originated term for when something happens in a story just for the sake ofthe plot, I.E., if Luke had gotten shot and killed like he should have on the Death Star, the plot would have... ended.
PIS in a classic comic book example is Spiderman defeating Firelord, a guy who can move faster than light and has powers similar to Silver Surfer.
Another example is anytime a Sith acts arrogant and ends up losing because of it (Maul, Anakin).