Originally posted by tjcoady
Ridiculous. Honestly, no one from any other company could defeat him? Just naming other Moore characters that could, off-hand: Miracleman, the Warpsmiths, God-Swamp Thing, Promothea, Jim Jaspers, the Fury, Mogo, Johnny Beyond, the N-Men, Mystery Incorporated, Horus the Lord of Light, Supreme, Tom Strange, and Tom Strong with Prep.Seriously, what an absurd thing to say: " And it's evident almost the majority of you haven't even read it if you think that anyone in the entire DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, (etc.) comic universe can defeat him."
Just as a side note, not exactly pertaining to this fight, Watchmen isn't even Alan Moore's best work, much less the greatest masterpiece of the comics world, or whatever.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
It's impossible to state whether or not something is the greatest masterpiece. It's a matter of opinion. I am however, pretty sure that it is the only comic book to be on times top 100 greatest novels of this century. As far as characters that could theoretically beat Dr. M. i'd say people who have complete control over energy. But we can't really know since it was never stated in watchmen. It's a very vague book if you're looking for comparisons. I still give this one to Dr. Manhattan based on sub atomic manipulation, his ability to clone himself an apparent unlimited amount, his omniscience, and the fact he's not an organic being you can knock out.
I'd honestly say that the reason that it was named on that list by "Times" is more due to lack of knowledge on the reviewer's part then actual merit on Watchmen's part. Promothea, Swamp Thing, and From Hell in my opinion, are superior works from Moore, at least in terms of aesthetics and literary "worth" (an admittedly vague term).
In retrospect, a great deal of Watchmen's politics and philosophy are naive, and somewhat lacking in their follow through. Some verbal elocutions (in particular, Rorschach's dialogue), seem stilted in their form. Take a look at the writing in American Splendor, Kill Your Boyfriend, or The Mystery Play, in comparison; in its use of symbolism and metaphor, I'd support Vimanarama, or Kid Eternity over it.
And in terms of the deconstruction of the superhero mythos, I'd argue that Grant Morrison did it better with Flex Mentallo and Seaguy . Perhaps this is because I'm fundamentally more optimistic than Moore- and because Watchmen is utterly a product of a much more pessimistic time, both in art and society.
Anyways, I'm sorry about the complete digression from the purpose of this thread; and anyways, they are just opinions.
On point, though, I'd generally give Dr. Manhattan the majority over Superman, while acknowledging that:
Superman has beaten intangible, inorganic "reality warpers" before.
Dr. Manhattan would take a while to figure out Superman's weaknesses to red solar radiation, or Kryptonite, and to reproduce those (and, for that matter, was Dr. Manhattan's control over the entire EM spectrum ever really shown?)
Dr. Manhattan has never faced a super-powered being before, and indeed, has never really been in any sort of fight before.
Anywho, sorry about the tangent again.
(By the way, sorry about the earlier double post- didn't realize I did that, and by the time I did, it was too late to fix).
Originally posted by LDHZenkaiIt's a graphic novel, only graphic novels could be in the top 100 greatest novels of the century, not comics.
It's impossible to state whether or not something is the greatest masterpiece. It's a matter of opinion. I am however, pretty sure that it is the only comic book to be on times top 100 greatest novels of this century. As far as characters that could theoretically beat Dr. M. i'd say people who have complete control over energy. But we can't really know since it was never stated in watchmen. It's a very vague book if you're looking for comparisons. I still give this one to Dr. Manhattan based on sub atomic manipulation, his ability to clone himself an apparent unlimited amount, his omniscience, and the fact he's not an organic being you can knock out.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
¨Did you watch the movie?
Or bang your head against the wall the entire time?
They said that if John missed a single percent of all the nukes, the world would still end.
He then clearly said no one can be everywhere at once. Not even Dr. Manhattan....
Also, I keep seeing people claim that Jon is omnipotent, and all this crap. He flat out says he isn't omniscient. He can only see HIS time line all at once, not EVERYTHING.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Dr. Manhattan cannot be knocked out, this is evidenced by the fact that even blowing him up using his own power doesn't knock him out. If superman gets blown up can he reform himself instantly? And why assume superman can even touch Dr. Manhattan? He can be everywhere at once and already knows exactly whats going to happen.
It was not proven that he couldnt be knocked out, they tried killing him with somehting he survuved before he even got his powers. The very thing that gave them to him
Why would they think would work anyway
We dont know how many clones he can make of himself he hasnt even made more then 5. He has barly any impressive feats and he knows whats gonna happen to himself aswell he cant even effect the outcome he just happens to see his timeline all at the same time
Originally posted by Galan007
eww. plz don't compare manny to the likes of surfer. one of them actually has well established feats, while the other has...... blue skin. kinda
feats are overrated on theses forums. The eternal zuras has less feats then supes does that mean supes wins.
ya right, Its true the dr dont have as many feats but from what little he has done and from his bio, he is much more versital probobly even more so then surfer. HE has the ability to or at least in theroy to beat the snot outta supes. We dont know he just dont have the feats. There are many characters in comics with few feats but prolly have the ability to own other characters with lots of feats. The dr is one of them.
Originally posted by Mindset
It's a graphic novel, only graphic novels could be in the top 100 greatest novels of the century, not comics.
Originally posted by zeel
feats are overrated on theses forums. The eternal zuras has less feats then supes does that mean supes wins.ya right, Its true the dr dont have as many feats but from what little he has done and from his bio, he is much more versital probobly even more so then surfer. HE has the ability to or at least in theroy to beat the snot outta supes. We dont know he just dont have the feats. There are many characters in comics with few feats but prolly have the ability to own other characters with lots of feats. The dr is one of them.