Originally posted by fangirl101
And what does that have to do with Entropy? The UN couldn't wipe out Entropy in the DCU. It would get pwned.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with that.
Originally posted by fangirl101
And the UN isn't even standard gear for Galactus.
And I'm going to agree with that. I don't know why people felt the need to bring it into this debate in the first place. That's like saying Diana's sword is standard gear (which, correct me if I'm wrong - normally is not).
Originally posted by fangirl101
And what does that have to do with Entropy? The UN couldn't wipe out Entropy in the DCU. It would get pwned.
That's a weak argument. Fights are in a neutral universe, remember?
Galactus has only said that crunch energies harm him when he harness them (and he obviously implies that he can be harmed by them when attacked). In his whole history, Galactus has only stated once that crunch energies can kill him, however, we know he already defeated two abstract level entities that harness them.
Galan is also much more versatile than Imperiex, he has more and better feats, he is established as capable of destroying the universe in Annihilation and he has already survived the destruction of his universe. He may as well survive the next (read Mr Master's scans).
So what gives? Just because Imperiex "is entropy" the fact he was time looped and pwned doesn't stands?
He was time looped when imprisoned and he was ''pwned'' by a kismet amped superman and a guy who wields power that was called the right hand of god himself....of course that all due to pis which doesn't exist here so none of that would happen here imperiex would actually fight,imperiexs strongest attacks unleashing entropy should end galactus.
Originally posted by Bentley
That's a weak argument. Fights are in a neutral universe, remember?Galactus has only said that crunch energies harm him when he harness them (and he obviously implies that he can be harmed by them when attacked). In his whole history, Galactus has only stated once that crunch energies can kill him, however, we know he already defeated two abstract level entities that harness them.
Galan is also much more versatile than Imperiex, he has more and better feats, he is established as capable of destroying the universe in Annihilation and he has already survived the destruction of his universe. He may as well survive the next (read Mr Master's scans).
So what gives? Just because Imperiex "is entropy" the fact he was time looped and pwned doesn't stands?
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
He was time looped when imprisoned and he was ''pwned'' by a kismet amped superman and a guy who wields power that was called the right hand of god himself....of course that all due to pis which doesn't exist here so none of that would happen here imperiex would actually fight,imperiexs strongest attacks unleashing entropy should end galactus.
Do we have feats making Kismet as powerful as you stated or shall we call it hyperbole?
Originally posted by fangirl101
If Entropy is the Ultimate destructive force in DC, that Means that it is the equal to what ever is the most destructive force in marvel. Which would pwn Galactus. what ever it is. That is what neutral universe means.
Wishful thinking, by that same note the most destructive force in the Preacherverse would be equal to the most destructive force in Marvel too. Not implying that one universe is more powerful than another, just pointing that this is not an equality must.
If you have scans of entropy being the most destructive force in the universe I would like to see them. Aren't there stronger things at all in the DC universe? Did the AM use entropy to destroy the infinite earths?
Asking to inform myself.
Originally posted by skygunner41
Abstract level ...last time I check they are not really that powerful enough to be considered abstract level...
You have a point there I guess, make it an elder god level being then.
Originally posted by fangirl101
If Entropy is the Ultimate destructive force in DC, that Means that it is the equal to what ever is the most destructive force in marvel. Which would pwn Galactus. what ever it is. That is what neutral universe means.
I don't know. AM was certainly more destructive obviously, so if you're talking about just the pure scale of destructive power, you'd be incorrect.
However I'm under the impression you mean "most destructive" as in, not literally meaning "capable of wielding the most devastating powers" but more "representing the most destructive natural force in DC."
If you and I have the same definition, then Imperiex's counterpart in Marvel is Abraxas, the abstract embodiment of destruction in the Marvel Universe.
Taking this into consideration, someone mentioned all the agents in play that necessitated banishing Imperiex to the beginning of time, where he found the imperfection he obsessed about was himself. So essentially, Superman, Darkseid and the rest were more interested in containing imperiex.
Let's note now that under these assumptions of equivalence, who/what contains Abraxas? Galactus does. Much of Galactus' energies are devoted to keeping Abraxas imprisonned *full time*.
That's actually a bit impressive considering how people may immediately dismiss Galactus out of his league here, when Galactus alone is responsible for actually perpetually restraining the manifestation of an entity that makes Imperiex look like Scarecrow.
Originally posted by AvlonPerhaps so, and not that I'm doubting you.
Back then they probably hadn't truly fleshed things out and thus the bio may reflect it.However ON PANEL in both 616 and in the What if you posted,
Richards brings up the destruction of the universe and Galactus immediately surrenders.
In this case, the point of divergence was SS taking the UN from Reed,
after Reed asked his question, "can Galactus survive?"
which Galactus never answered.
For real Av ... it was the UN Galactus was concerned with primarily:
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - Galactus bio 2005)
The reason? ... According to the UN's 2006 bio, it can destroy Galactus:
Also Av., Galactus might've been just as concerned for the Universe, as for himself,
whether he would survive or not, the worries would be the same,
remember, Galactus is really a defender of Universal consonance.
This is probably why the UN's bio account of the Reed/UN incident,
tells us, Galactus was afraid of what an untrained mind might accomplish:
Whether it's wiping out the Universe, or wiping him out,
neither scenario is in Galactus' interest.
Although, wiping out Galactus,
would essentially bring forth the end of the Universe anyway.
Seems like a catch 22.
Originally posted by AvlonImperiex's feats destroying and restarting the universe are one's he's already done,
and multiple times.
Originally posted by AvlonHe also has an infinite supply of entropic energy at his disposal.
Under Galan's admission the crunch would have been too much for him.The guy also weakens while Imperiex doesn't.
It's like DC custom made the guy to beat him.
There are details concerning that crunch bit btw.
Originally posted by AvlonActually, they are more similar than you think my friend...
although that doesn't matter by the rules here
Still, for the record, alternate realities (mirrors/futures/divergences)
are all canon to the Marvel Omniverse.
And/but yes I agree,
none of these stories taking place outside of 616, (alternate realities)
should be considered as a means to define a 616 character in a vs thread.
Originally posted by AvlonGalactus may have the potential to be as poweful as imperiex based on future timelines,
but then again so does Superman if we go by potential.
Byrne's future, is a picture of the end of the entire Marvel Universe,
which happens to come about in a battle between Galactus & Ecce,
Galactus, using his stored energies, then ultimately creates a new Marvel Universe.
Since it's a 616 future, like all 616 futures, it's a possible future,
so we'll never know if it's the definitive future of the 616 reality.
We do have G's herald,
stating 616 Galactus does indeed contain an entire Cosmos inside him.
We also have Annihilation, which told us even the energy stores of a hungry G,
would obliterate the 616 reality and the Negative Zone.
Originally posted by AvlonHowever, it's still an imaginary story however close they may get it to the original.
There is a Universe, that one can reach, where that story took place.
An official mainstream Quasar issue literally deals with this exact subject,
where Quasar travels through a plethora of "What if" UniverseS chasing the Living Laser.
Originally posted by AvlonAlso, in one of your own examples,
wasn't the IG extremely toned down as compared to 616?
Which is why I never use What ifs to debate,
because again,
writers have freer reign with their "What if" stories
since What if realities have split from the mainstream Timeline,
they don't have to adhere to a regulated continuity.
There's 3 sides to a What if, and each can only be judged individually.
1. You got straight up goofy stories.
2. You got stories that follow 616, but then either de-power or over-power a character,
or more commonly, use more PIS than the NJ turnpike waste dumps.
3. You got other stories that follow 616,
and other than the difference in history after the divergence,
are seemingly identical to 616. (rarely though)
Originally posted by AvlonSomething just tingles in the back of my head.
Figured if anyone might know...it would be you amigo.
There's nothing Reed can do anymore, that would surprise me.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaUsing what ifs/alternate realities to prove anything,
even if most of them are existent in the Marvel Universe is wrong.
Originally posted by Mr MasterWhat if's aren't non-canon,
they're actually situated in a Universe withIN the prime Marvel Multiverse.(they're diverge alternate mirrors of 616)
Grant it, many What ifs are retarded.
* edit * ... and I don't ever use them, or condone it,
I was actually trying to make a point.
Originally posted by Mr MasterRight, I wasn't using that What if issue as ammo against Imperiex,
I was making a point to fangirl, that didn't seem to go over to well.And/but yes I agree,
none of these stories taking place outside of 616, (alternate realities)
should be considered as a means to define a 616 character in a vs thread.
Originally posted by Mr MasterWhich is why I never use What ifs to debate,
because again,
writers have freer reign with their "What if" stories
since What if realities have split from the mainstream Timeline,
they don't have to adhere to a regulated continuity.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaUsing the scans I put with Thing for anything other than comic relief is wrong.
Originally posted by Tenebrous
That's actually a bit impressive considering how people may immediately dismiss Galactus out of his league here, when Galactus alone is responsible for actually perpetually restraining the manifestation of an entity that makes Imperiex look like Scarecrow.
I thought that analogy was very funny. 😄
Originally posted by Mr Master
The 616 and What if scenario are the same because like I said before,
What ifs are identical copies of everything that has happened in 616
until the point of divergence.In this case, the point of divergence was SS taking the UN from Reed,
after Reed asked his question, "can Galactus survive?"
which Galactus never answered.For real Av ... it was the UN Galactus was concerned with primarily:
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - Galactus bio 2005)
The reason? ... According to the UN's 2006 bio, it can destroy Galactus:
Also Av., Galactus might've been just as concerned for the Universe, as for himself,
whether he would survive or not, the worries would be the same,
remember, Galactus is really a defender of Universal consonance.This is probably why the UN's bio account of the Reed/UN incident,
tells us, Galactus was afraid of what an untrained mind might accomplish:Whether it's wiping out the Universe, or wiping him out,
neither scenario is in Galactus' interest.
Although, wiping out Galactus,
would essentially bring forth the end of the Universe anyway.Seems like a catch 22.
I don't doubt you my friend. Imo, the UN probably wasn't fleshed out all that well at the time. I just found it interesting that it was made to seem like the end of the universe severely scared Galactus (and of course it should) but I'm also aware that the nullifier should scare the bejesus out of him.
You'd figure after nearly having the weapon used on himself, he'd wise up and destroy it. It's not like if Richard's had used it..there would have been a second chance ever again.
Just to drop some knowledge...there is a material similar to what the UN does in DC as well. It's not 100% identical, but it has similar properties. We can take that to PM if you're interested.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Galactus hasn't,
but only because the current Marvel Universe's natural end has not arrived yet.
It is at this time, that Galactus' second cosmic function come into play,
re-create the Omniverse. (the next Marvel Universe)I posted the scans where 616 Galactus can absorb infinite energy,
and where 616 Galactus is composed of infinite energy.There are details concerning that crunch bit btw.
Right, I wasn't using that What if issue as ammo against Imperiex,
I was making a point to fangirl, that didn't seem to go over to well.Still, for the record, alternate realities (mirrors/futures/divergences)
are all canon to the Marvel Omniverse.And/but yes I agree,
none of these stories taking place outside of 616, (alternate realities)
should be considered as a means to define a 616 character in a vs thread.Well, the future where Galactus was about to consume the entire Omniverse,
arrived in 2005, although that future was nullified by Galactus in 1990,
so it never got here, or ever will.Byrne's future, is a picture of the end of the entire Marvel Universe,
which happens to come about in a battle between Galactus & Ecce,
Galactus, using his stored energies, then ultimately creates a new Marvel Universe.Since it's a 616 future, like all 616 futures, it's a possible future,
so we'll never know if it's the definitive future of the 616 reality.We do have G's herald,
stating 616 Galactus does indeed contain an entire Cosmos inside him.
We also have Annihilation, which told us even the energy stores of a hungry G,
would obliterate the 616 reality and the Negative Zone.Actually, it's not an imaginary story good friend,
it's a story that did take place withIN the prime Multiverse.There is a Universe, that one can reach, where that story took place.
An official mainstream Quasar issue literally deals with this exact subject,
where Quasar travels through a plethora of "What if" UniverseS chasing the Living Laser.
It's all a very tricky matter when it comes to debating on these boards. Branching futures are USUALLY within a characters defined powerset but just aren't allowed. DC 1 Million has Superman as a super-god who powers an entire dynasty of overpowered cosmics that are transcendent and is a direct future as well.
Now even the precrisis future is being linked. The precrisis feats were off the wall insane a lot of the time. This is probably why the rule started in the 1st place to keep things current unless specified.
We do get some hearsay in Annihilation about possibilities which of course are the subject of debate. With Imperiex it has been shown though. These are things that have already been done.
In a branching future, Brainiac 13 became god with Imperiex's power literally taking over everything.
As usual though, it's always good to get some insight from a TRUE debater.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Which is why I never use What ifs to debate,
because again,
writers have freer reign with their "What if" stories
since What if realities have split from the mainstream Timeline,
they don't have to adhere to a regulated continuity.There's 3 sides to a What if, and each can only be judged individually.
1. You got straight up goofy stories.
2. You got stories that follow 616, but then either de-power or over-power a character,
or more commonly, use more PIS than the NJ turnpike waste dumps.
3. You got other stories that follow 616,
and other than the difference in history after the divergence,
are seemingly identical to 616. (rarely though)
As long as they are enjoyable to read, they can use any of the above. There are quite a few good Elseworlds stories available as well. In the "What if" version where Galactus wins, they sure did take a lot of liberty with Thor's durability next to Surfer's output.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Meh, knowing Reed, I could've easily missed that, and you may be right.There's nothing Reed can do anymore, that would surprise me.
Well, if it's out there someone will hopefully bring it up. I thought it may have been a "what if" though.
