The Presence against The Heart of the Infinite

Originally posted by Allankles

It doesn't get thrown around so easily in DC.
You only need a dictionary to know that using the word omnipotence
for LT and the like isn't correct.

Again:

Originally posted by Mr Master

In Marvel Comics, there are levels of Infinity: (omnipotence specifically)

Originally posted by Allankles

Ok. So what does HOTI have to do with being the Supreme being in the MU?

Originally posted by Allankles

So TOAA (who's influence is mentioned in universe) created HOTI?
Which means as far the MU is concerned he's the Supreme Authority.

The whole concept of omnipotence, being eternal, being God, the Omniverse,
that's all just meaningless drawings on a piece of paper to TOAA.

Originally posted by Allankles

Of course this wouldn't matter if the TOAA wasn't in-universe.

Since by DC logic the Presence is Supreme, and By marvel Logic TOAA is supreme, that means they are equals

The Presence=TOAA.
Anything less than either is not supreme and thus not equal to the other.

TOAA>THOTU
Thus THOTU cannot be equal to the presence.

Originally posted by Allankles

And who was responsible for HOTI?

Originally posted by Allankles

It was just an artifact, it didn't just come into existence in-universe by itself.

"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"

According to Marvel Comics ... it always was, nothing brought it into existence,
of course, everything we see/read on panel is nothing but ideas and drawings of TOAA.

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA is responsible for everything that tales place on panel,
because it's all just ideas and drawings on a piece of paper to them.

THOTI was never an artifact.

"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"

According to Marvel Comics ... it always was, nothing brought it into existence,
of course, everything we see/read on panel is nothing but ideas and drawings of TOAA.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah, it's you friend that's again confusing yourself by using DC logic to define Marvel.

It'ds nothing like that it's about the proper use of words, the definition of the word means that LT and the like aren't omnipotent within Marvel.

Again:

dontgetit

Originally posted by Mr Master
I told ya several times already, even posted the scanned proof,
TOAA creates/draws everything that takes place on panel.

The whole concept of omnipotence, being eternal, being God, the Omniverse,
that's all just meaningless drawings on a piece of paper to TOAA.

TOAA draws everything that takes in and the Marvel Omniverse,
they do so from "Heaven" ... which is basically a representation of an artists' drawing studio.

I've acknowledged this but the TOAA is a presence within the MU and as such occupies the role of Supreme Authority there. DC has not done the same for the role of the Presence by adding the writers as a fixture within the DCU.

We're talking about the hierachy of characters and TOAA is at the top of the heap in the MU, the Presence has the same position in DCU without the out-of-universe connotations like writers and artists drawing. The Presence creates and controls all things in the DCU without any reference to whether he fulfills this role as an out-of-universe artist/writer.

Originally posted by fangirl101

Since by DC logic the Presence is Supreme,
and By marvel Logic TOAA is supreme, that means they are equals

The Presence=TOAA.
Anything less than either is not supreme and thus not equal to the other.

TOAA>THOTU
Thus THOTU cannot be equal to the presence.

yawn

Here's Thanos' 2008 bio: (at the bottom)

Excerpt from Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

..........................................................................

=========== SUPREME BEING =============

..........................................................................

And GOD!

.................................................................................

Official Marvel Handbook as well:

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

=========== GOD =============

.............................................................................

Now you can play blind/deft and dumb, but I don't care.

I'm not gonna allow you to germinate the forum with fallacies that's for sure.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Only Marvel doesn't see it that way:

yawn

Here's [B]Thanos' 2008 bio: (at the bottom)

Excerpt from Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

..........................................................................

=========== SUPREME BEING =============

..........................................................................

And GOD!

.................................................................................

Official Marvel Handbook as well:

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

=========== GOD =============

.............................................................................

Now you can play blind/deft and dumb, but I don't care.

I'm not gonna allow you to germinate the forum with fallacies that's for sure. [/B]

No ones is trying to play dumb. If the TOAA wasn't a presence within Marvel this wouldn't matter. And then you'd be left with the LT and Thanos and the readers wondering where THOTI came from except we know it came from the MU character TOAA.

EDIT: So in the end THOTI isn't equal to the Presence since it was a creation of the MU's Supreme authority TOAA.

Originally posted by Allankles

It'ds nothing like that it's about the proper use of words,
the definition of the word means that LT and the like aren't omnipotent within Marvel.

In Marvel Comics, there are levels of Infinity: (omnipotence specifically)

Any attempt at contradicting on panel proof is a vain endeavor at kmc.

Originally posted by Allankles

I've acknowledged this but the TOAA is a presence within the MU
and as such occupies the role of Supreme Authority there.

TOAA is the writer and artist of any given story,
they are represented on panel by illustrated avatars,
they literally draw everything that takes place on panel,
they're not part of stories, they make the stories,
they're not "omnipotent, omniscient blah, blah. blah,
in fact, they're limited as any other human being would be,
cause that's what they're based off of, real human beings that write and draw in comics.

Originally posted by Allankles

DC has not done the same for the role of the Presence
by adding the writers as a fixture within the DCU.

Morrison's portrayal of a true comic book "God" in the Animal Man arc:

.................................................................................

It's right along the lines of FF#511, and other Marvel depictions,
but it's blatant, and more thorough in getting the idea across.

credit to Galan on these scans:

Originally posted by Allankles

We're talking about the hierachy of characters
and TOAA is at the top of the heap in the MU

TOAA imagines and draws everything that takes place on panel, including the hierarchy.

So how is TOAA gonna be categorized with shit they create by writing and drawing on paper?

That's an asinine predicament.

Originally posted by Allankles

the Presence has the same position in DCU without the out-of-universe connotations like writers and artists drawing. The Presence creates and controls all things in the DCU without any reference to whether he fulfills this role as an out-of-universe artist/writer.

Originally posted by Allankles

If the TOAA wasn't a presence within Marvel this wouldn't matter.

You keep thinking TOAA looks at other drawings as if they are significant,
but in actuality, the LT, Eternity, THOTI, and every story ever displayed on panel,
was all created by TOAA on a piece of paper, meaning, it's just a fantasy of theirs.

Which in real life is exatly true,
that's what Marvel Comics are, a fantasy of the writers and artists.

Simple and plain, goodness please don't return with the same circle friend.

Originally posted by Allankles

And then you'd be left with the LT and Thanos and the readers wondering where THOTI came from except we know it came from the MU character TOAA.

Within comics, in the comic book story, The End: Marvel,
THOTI always was, eternal until Thanos erased it.

Just like the Infinity Being always was, it had no beginning,
it was the original creator of everything Marvel,
it was all, and everything was a part of it, it was God!

And?

Still just an idealized drawing to TOAA.

Because again, every concept withIn Marvel Comics,
is created/drawn by TOAA on a piece of paper.

Originally posted by Allankles

EDIT: So in the end THOTI isn't equal to the Presence
since it was a creation of the MU's Supreme authority TOAA.

The Presence is the God of the DCU.
TOAA is the God of the MU.
So they are equals. Anything less than either is not equal to either.

Originally posted by fangirl101

The Presence is the God of the DCU.

TOAA is the God of the MU.

So they are equals. Anything less than either is not equal to either.

According to Jim Starlin, GOD is exactly what the IG made Thanos and Warlock:

Jim Starlin

(the writer/creator of the Infinity Gauntlet)

gets interviewed by Marvel Age.

Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories,
from the Writers themselves.

"The Infinity Gauntlet,
a story that dealt with the idea of a nihilist (Thanos) becoming God"

..........................................................................................

Jim Starlin himself adds:

"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet"

=============================

Marvel.com states the Infinity Gauntlet grants,

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gauntlet_%28item%29

Powers: "Absolute Omnipotence when the Gems are used altogether"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, TOAA is above GOD:

According to Jim Starlin, GOD is exactly what the IG made Thanos and Warlock:

[B]Jim Starlin

(the writer/creator of the Infinity Gauntlet)

gets interviewed by Marvel Age.

Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories,
from the Writers themselves.

"The Infinity Gauntlet,
a story that dealt with the idea of a nihilist (Thanos) becoming God"

..........................................................................................

Jim Starlin himself adds:

"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet" [/B]

No, fangirl, they are not.

TOAA is an out-of-universe Source of Omnipotence. The Presence is an in-universe Source of Omnipotence.

Allankles, I think that's where you're not understanding things, too. In-universe, HOTI is God's Power. It is absolute omnipotence.

Originally posted by fangirl101

TOAA is the God of the MU.

"This Being was the only Living Thing that Existed within Any and ALL Realities"

"ALL That Was and ALL that Was, Was it "

Then Thanos says, "I wouldn't blame you for calling it GOD ...

What other name would fit?"

(which makes sense)

................................................................................

"ALL That Was Was already Part of Itself ... there was NO Other in it's Life"

"It chose to put an End to itself ...

from it's Ashes rose ALL That is currently Reality ... in ALL it's many forms"

................................................................................

Diana of the Dark Shoppe (from another Multiverse) basically tells the same tale:

"Many Millennia ago in your Universe, (the Prime Multiverse that is)
there was a God with the power of Infinity,
even with control of ALL that is,
the God's loneliness could not be soothed, by his own hand he died"

................................................................................

... oops ... Yes, that's GOD, yes GOD always was, yes GOD was everything,
yes, GOD created ALL Realities originally ...

but again ... oops ... that's not TOAA!

That's actually just one of TOAA's drawings (the Infinity Being)
doing what the TOAA wrote him to do.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, fangirl, they are not.

TOAA is an out-of-universe Source of Omnipotence. The Presence is an in-universe Source of Omnipotence.

Allankles, I think that's where you're not understanding things, too. In-universe, HOTI [b]is God's Power. It is absolute omnipotence. [/B]

Right, it doesn't matter what Marvel says concerning their comics. 😐

Originally posted by Enyalus

No, fangirl, they are not.

TOAA is an out-of-universe Source of Omnipotence.
The Presence is an in-universe Source of Omnipotence.

Allankles, I think that's where you're not understanding things, too.
In-universe, HOTI is God's Power.
It is absolute omnipotence.

Goodness Enyalus, is it really that hard to comprehend?

I thought the explanations I was delivering were too complex,
then I posted a plethora of unquestionable on panel proof,
confirmed in Handbooks, and Marvel.com,
yet, that wasn't enough,
so I posted Jim Starlin himself corroborating the on panel, bio confirmed facts.

Still though ... firefirefireph

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 Goodness Enyalus, is it really that hard to comprehend?

I thought the explanations I was delivering were too complex,
then I posted a plethora of unquestionable on panel proof,
confirmed in Handbooks, and Marvel.com,
yet, that wasn't enough,
so I posted Jim Starlin himself corroborating the on panel, bio confirmed facts.

Still though ... firefirefireph

If DC says the presence is supreme whether it's on panel or out of panel, it is supreme.

if marvel says that Nothign is above TOAA then that is it.

They are both equal.
Anything or anyone under either is not equal to either.

Originally posted by fangirl101
it doesn't matter what marvel calls thier god. And what DC calls thiers. If DC says nothing can beat the power of the presence then it is supreme. if marvel's power is out of comics, it is still equal to Dc's since it is supreme. all else under either is not equal to either.

So because DC says nothing in DCU can beat the Presence that means, automatically, nothing in Marvel can beat the Presence? Try again.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, it doesn't matter what Marvel says concerning their comics. 😐

👆

Goodness Enyalus, is it really that hard to comprehend?

I thought the explanations I was delivering were too complex,
then I posted a plethora of unquestionable on panel proof,
confirmed in Handbooks, and Marvel.com,
yet, that wasn't enough,
so I posted Jim Starlin himself corroborating the on panel, bio confirmed facts.

I know. I could see you getting frustrated. Because you're basically repeating yourself with a valid argument and numerous scans of proof.

It's pretty clear cut. Thanos with the Heart of the Infinite was the Supreme Being in Marvel's Universe (and, technically, even out of it since he absorbed it). Which makes him the equal of DC's Presence. And thus, they would probably stalemate.

Originally posted by fangirl101

No it's you who do NOT understand.

Originally posted by fangirl101

You are trying to force marvel's definition of Supremecy on DC.

If DC says the presence is supreme whether it's on panel or out of panel, it is supreme.

Originally posted by fangirl101

if marvel says that Nothign is above TOAA then that is it.

Thanos says:

"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,

did you ever dare demand anything from Him"

Eternity responds,

"No, but" .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)

..................................................................................................

"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...

my Will is Supreme"

noneyes

.............................................................................

Like I said, it was also confirmed in official handbook Bios:

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

stoned

Originally posted by Enyalus
So because DC says nothing in DCU can beat the Presence that means, automatically, nothing in Marvel can beat the Presence? Try again.

.