Viktor vs Markus

Originally posted by The_Tempest

I never said their plan was for Michael to kill Viktor. The plan was for Lucian to harness Michael's unique cellular disposition and Amelia's Elder blood and hybridize himself. When Kraven declares that Viktor has been awakened, is growing stronger, and cannot be defeated, Lucian responds that that was why he needs Michael to begin with.

In other words, Lucian doesn't believe he can defeat Viktor without the power boost afforded by hybrid status. Since he has chronologically fought him before IU in Rise of the Lycans, that's pretty concrete evidence for me that Lucian knows Viktor would defeat him far more often than not.

In the end, it comes down to Lucian's own word versus the clumsy interpretation of those chugging Quan-flavored Haterade. I'm siding with the former. 👆

Post the clip buddy because I don't remember Lucian saying that at all... Point is though, He never says he can't beat Viktor and it makes no sense if it did because he already beat him. We should just chalk that up to writing before the third movie was even made. Once the 3rd movie was made.. that made any statement like that null and void since he already did DEFEAT him. So did his daughter. Viktor has lost against more people that he's beaten. Just how it is

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Post the clip buddy because I don't remember Lucian saying that at all... Point is though, He never says he can't beat Viktor and it makes no sense if it did because he already beat him. We should just chalk that up to writing before the third movie was even made. Once the 3rd movie was made.. that made any statement like that null and void since he already did DEFEAT him. So did his daughter. Viktor has lost against more people that he's beaten. Just how it is

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Every face looks smushed from someone with so long a face such as yours. You couldn't get a girl if you tried. Well I should say an attractive girl. Judging by your intelligence and your looks you have nothing to offer save making someone feel better due to your stupidity.

You continue to repeat yourself. He grew in power over the years. He still showed he was greater with weaponry as he effectively disarmed Lucian. The castle was overrun by greater numbers so that is why he left due to intelligence after Lucian failed to kill him. Years later the vampires were in the better position due to Viktor's superiority in leadership despite the castle being annihilated save two vampires.

He did face him head on. Lucian fled from him in the chamber room after he took Sonja's medallion. Lucian fled. Lucian Cheapshotted Viktor onto the chains and yet Viktor still disarmed him. You are ignoring the situational circumstances of the Lycans overrunning the city. You just repeat yourself in chimpish fashion.

Lucian cheapshotted him. Viktor disarmed him. The sun isn't something even a great tactician can control. Despite the sun making him unable to defend himself Lucian was still unable to kill him. Viktor truly is great.

He is more powerful but so was Michael but Markus lacks Michael's movement speed. Viktor still defeated him. The same result applies here save for the speed disadvantage Michael had over him so it should go even easier.

Starving implies death. He was alive. You can't starve for one hundred years and not die. Viktor wasn't starving. You need to cite proof. You cannot prove he was starving unlike myself who has proven my claims.

1. I posted with age they grow more powerful. You haven't posted any proof as to suggest this doesn't apply to the elders when it clearly did or that this state prevented them from growing in strength. Even if what you say is true he was still older so thus he gained more power even using your long face logic. I proved my case whereas you have not proven anything.

2. I cited two examples along with the proof on top of that. He threw a human against a structure and damaged it. [B]He later throws Michael through a wall thus proving his strength has indeed increased. He also easily overpowered Raze who doesn't sleep centuries away thus proving he is vastly stronger than this Lycan.

You ignored the circumstances of all the battles he was in. He beat the hybrid who is stronger, faster than all. Viktor also easily crushed Raze.

Viktor disarmed Lucian and was boxed in by the sun. You can't ignore context. Viktor also defeated Selene despite holding back against his own daughter.

Selene attacked him while he attacked another. He had the powerful hybrid in a chokehold. Selene defeated Markus in fair combat.

Viktor wins, long face. [/B]

Hey smush face.. you're not in my league.. Your squatty and smushy.. The two ss that girls don't like. I know this doesn't come as a surprise to you being rejected by girls so much.. but girls like a guy over 6 feet tall and handsome.. you're neither. I would be more than happy to see all the girlfriend (singular in your case) and you can see mine and we'll see who can get the better looking girls kid. You literally make me laugh and have zero chance smush parker

No the fact is he ran and hide from Lucian.. FACT... not only did he run and hide but he tried to snake attack Lucian to kill him.. FACT.. If he was a powerful as you claim he would've just killed him face to face instead of trying to sneak attack him. He didn't because he's not that strong and not that good of a fighter. What did he get for his troubles? He got stabbed in the throat and beaten.

He was the moron that went down there after Lucian.. that was HIS fault and his lack of battlefield awareness and it cost him. It's not Lucian faults he's a bumbling moron like you smush.

Moron Viktor didn't defeat Michael you nit-wit.. he had him in a choke hold.. that isn't defeating him smush. People turn the tides all the time.. happens routinely in MMA fights or boxing. Viktor having the momentary advantage doesn't mean he defeated him. I have to define basic works to a smush face gets annoying at times.

I just posted the definition of starved and that is EXACTLY what Viktor was.. He was bones and his body wasn't even functioning. In fact, he had to be pumped full of blood with like 20 tubes just to start to regain his power. Which tells us what smush face? That he doesn't grow in power in that state.. he's starved. Let what does that tell us smush face? That viktor was only growing in power while he was awake.. and he was only awake 100 years out of 300. Not a very high percentage.

I'm still waiting for the proof he got MASSIVELY stronger like you claim. you still failed to post the proof of that so I'll accept your concession on that point. Throwing somebody heavier throw an old brittle wall isn't proof. Michael weighed considerably more than the person viktor threw against the pillar. to say nothing of a pillar being much stronger than a old brittle wall that already had a hold in it to begin with. I know you're stupid smush midget...but you can't be this dumb. That wasn't proof at all. Nor his proof him killing Raze.. He never was shown killing any lycan by hand before.. so for all we know he couldn't done that before. I pains me to crush you like this smush but that isn't proof. You would have to show him FAILING to kill a lycan with his hands or struggling to do so and then being able to kill Raze easily THEN you would be on to something. You don't have that proof do you smush... thus you've proven nothing. I accept you concession he didn't go massively stronger.

Here's what we are left with...

Markus is more powerful and has more abilities and is faster
Markus has defeated people Viktor hasn't

Viktor has lost to his own daughter easily
Viktor has lost to Lucian
Viktor failed to defeat Michael
Viktor failed to react to an unamped selene killing him.

simple markus crushes viktor easily

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Hey smush face.. you're not in my league.. Your squatty and smushy.. The two ss that girls don't like. I know this doesn't come as a surprise to you being rejected by girls so much.. but girls like a guy over 6 feet tall and handsome.. you're neither. I would be more than happy to see all the girlfriend (singular in your case) and you can see mine and we'll see who can get the better looking girls kid. You literally make me laugh and have zero chance smush parker

No the fact is he ran and hide from Lucian.. FACT... not only did he run and hide but he tried to snake attack Lucian to kill him.. FACT.. If he was a powerful as you claim he would've just killed him face to face instead of trying to sneak attack him. He didn't because he's not that strong and not that good of a fighter. What did he get for his troubles? He got stabbed in the throat and beaten.

He was the moron that went down there after Lucian.. that was HIS fault and his lack of battlefield awareness and it cost him. It's not Lucian faults he's a bumbling moron like you smush.

Moron Viktor didn't defeat Michael you nit-wit.. he had him in a choke hold.. that isn't defeating him smush. People turn the tides all the time.. happens routinely in MMA fights or boxing. Viktor having the momentary advantage doesn't mean he defeated him. I have to define basic works to a smush face gets annoying at times.

I just posted the definition of starved and that is EXACTLY what Viktor was.. He was bones and his body wasn't even functioning. In fact, he had to be pumped full of blood with like 20 tubes just to start to regain his power. Which tells us what smush face? That he doesn't grow in power in that state.. he's starved. Let what does that tell us smush face? That viktor was only growing in power while he was awake.. and he was only awake 100 years out of 300. Not a very high percentage.

I'm still waiting for the proof he got MASSIVELY stronger like you claim. you still failed to post the proof of that so I'll accept your concession on that point. Throwing somebody heavier throw an old brittle wall isn't proof. Michael weighed considerably more than the person viktor threw against the pillar. to say nothing of a pillar being much stronger than a old brittle wall that already had a hold in it to begin with. I know you're stupid smush midget...but you can't be this dumb. That wasn't proof at all. Nor his proof him killing Raze.. He never was shown killing any lycan by hand before.. so for all we know he couldn't done that before. I pains me to crush you like this smush but that isn't proof. You would have to show him FAILING to kill a lycan with his hands or struggling to do so and then being able to kill Raze easily THEN you would be on to something. You don't have that proof do you smush... thus you've proven nothing. I accept you concession he didn't go massively stronger.

Here's what we are left with...

Markus is more powerful and has more abilities and is faster
Markus has defeated people Viktor hasn't

Viktor has lost to his own daughter easily
Viktor has lost to Lucian
Viktor failed to defeat Michael
Viktor failed to react to an unamped selene killing him.

simple markus crushes viktor easily

He was leaving the battlefield because there were far too many Lycans. He then disarmed Lucian in combat. Being more powerful doesn't mean he can easily kill him at that time. You seem to not know the difference between all the other aspects and are acting childish again. Viktor proved to be his superior skill wise. He was unable to fight back due to the sunlight and despite that Lucian was still unable to kill him.

Lucian cheap tackled him and was still disarmed. The sun was brought into the fight proving Lucian can't take him on or beat him straight up. Definitive proof.

He was about to kill him and said as much. Selene intervened because Michael was about to die. Michael was at his mercy and someone else intervened. Viktor himself beat Sonja.

🙂

No, it wasn't and you haven't supported it. You can't starve for one hundred years. You're ignoring the definition. With age they grow in power. Every year or extra day he becomes stronger as per the words. You need to prove the claim that the elders who were the strongest of the covens somehow were weaker. I already proved it by direct feats. 🙂

I already proved it by two feats. Viktor tossing Michael through the wall as opposed to tossing the human. Based off what did Michael weigh a lot more than the human ? How much is a lot more ? If he weighs a lot more than it is harder to throw a heavier person anyways. You just proved my point anyways since you say he is far heavier yet Viktor tossed him effortlessly through a wall anyways.

We never saw any vampire overpower a Lycan before. So we have two feats this proving Viktor has grown in power over the years along with the fact it's stated anyways the elders are the strongest despite them sleeping.

Markus is stronger due to being older. Michael was also stronger and considerably faster than Markus. Viktor came out on top.

Viktor defeated his daughter. It was proven one sword stab didn't even kill him and he won on his own.
Viktor disarmed Lucian. The sun kept him boxed in unable to defend himself thus proving greater skill in hand to hand combat.
Viktor defeated Michael and was about to kill him which is why Selene intervened.
That wasn't a fair fight.

Selene killed Markus in a fair fight.

Viktor wins just like how he beat Michael.

😂

While i agree that hybrid Marcus is stronger on paper, awakened Viktor seemed stronger as well imo, just by the way he humiliated Raze in werewolf form and the fact how everyone just shit their pants at the news of his resurrection.

Marcus can win but Viktor rips his wings off and tells him to go sit in the corner more often than not.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't agree at all since we see how much more powerful Viktor had become by way of similar feats. We also saw that Viktor was skilled enough to disarm him in the Rise of the Lycans. Viktor easily physically overpowered Raze showing a considerable increase in strength since the Rise of the Lycans.

Viktor may have been more skilled and more powerful but his strength increases at a set rate as does Lucian's. There is no reason to believe Viktor's strength increased faster than Lucian's so the difference between them would have remained the same.

Raze was created well after Viktor was already an elder and ridiculously powerful. No reason to believe he couldn't always manhandle him like that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Post the clip buddy

I don't have a clip handy, just a copy of the movie on DVD.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
because I don't remember Lucian saying that at all... Point is though, He never says he can't beat Viktor and it makes no sense if it did because he already beat him. We should just chalk that up to writing before the third movie was even made. Once the 3rd movie was made.. that made any statement like that null and void since he already did DEFEAT him. So did his daughter. Viktor has lost against more people that he's beaten. Just how it is

Actually, it makes perfect sense if Lucian knows that his "victory" over Viktor was an outlier unlikely to be repeated. It's not like the first Underworld movie is any more or less canon than the prequel. If you want to flagrantly disregard a crucial plot point of the first film in order to fuel your e-grudge against a troll, be my guest, but I'm not.

Originally posted by juggerman
Viktor may have been more skilled and more powerful but his strength increases at a set rate as does Lucian's. There is no reason to believe Viktor's strength increased faster than Lucian's so the difference between them would have remained the same.

Raze was created well after Viktor was already an elder and ridiculously powerful. No reason to believe he couldn't always manhandle him like that.

We saw plenty of vampires made well before the Lycans who stormed the castle and they needed weapons to deal with their Lycan form. Viktor was powerful enough to easily subdue the Lycan form. We can't look past this fear just because.

Viktor was flat out superior to Lucian.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Hey smush face.. you're not in my league.. Your squatty and smushy.. The two ss that girls don't like. I know this doesn't come as a surprise to you being rejected by girls so much.. but girls like a guy over 6 feet tall and handsome.. you're neither. I would be more than happy to see all the girlfriend (singular in your case) and you can see mine and we'll see who can get the better looking girls kid. You literally make me laugh and have zero chance smush parker

No the fact is he ran and hide from Lucian.. FACT... not only did he run and hide but he tried to snake attack Lucian to kill him.. FACT.. If he was a powerful as you claim he would've just killed him face to face instead of trying to sneak attack him. He didn't because he's not that strong and not that good of a fighter. What did he get for his troubles? He got stabbed in the throat and beaten.

He was the moron that went down there after Lucian.. that was HIS fault and his lack of battlefield awareness and it cost him. It's not Lucian faults he's a bumbling moron like you smush.

Moron Viktor didn't defeat Michael you nit-wit.. he had him in a choke hold.. that isn't defeating him smush. People turn the tides all the time.. happens routinely in MMA fights or boxing. Viktor having the momentary advantage doesn't mean he defeated him. I have to define basic works to a smush face gets annoying at times.

I just posted the definition of starved and that is EXACTLY what Viktor was.. He was bones and his body wasn't even functioning. In fact, he had to be pumped full of blood with like 20 tubes just to start to regain his power. Which tells us what smush face? That he doesn't grow in power in that state.. he's starved. Let what does that tell us smush face? That viktor was only growing in power while he was awake.. and he was only awake 100 years out of 300. Not a very high percentage.

I'm still waiting for the proof he got MASSIVELY stronger like you claim. you still failed to post the proof of that so I'll accept your concession on that point. Throwing somebody heavier throw an old brittle wall isn't proof. Michael weighed considerably more than the person viktor threw against the pillar. to say nothing of a pillar being much stronger than a old brittle wall that already had a hold in it to begin with. I know you're stupid smush midget...but you can't be this dumb. That wasn't proof at all. Nor his proof him killing Raze.. He never was shown killing any lycan by hand before.. so for all we know he couldn't done that before. I pains me to crush you like this smush but that isn't proof. You would have to show him FAILING to kill a lycan with his hands or struggling to do so and then being able to kill Raze easily THEN you would be on to something. You don't have that proof do you smush... thus you've proven nothing. I accept you concession he didn't go massively stronger.

Here's what we are left with...

Markus is more powerful and has more abilities and is faster
Markus has defeated people Viktor hasn't

Viktor has lost to his own daughter easily
Viktor has lost to Lucian
Viktor failed to defeat Michael
Viktor failed to react to an unamped selene killing him.

simple markus crushes viktor easily

I know I said I was done with this thread but I couldn't resist coming back after re-watching Evolution a few days ago. I'll just ignore Quan's obvious trolling posts... Although I agree with the people like you who say Marcus beats Viktor pretty easily I disagree with a lot of your statements. In ROTL, Viktor didn't flee Lucian because he was afraid of him but because he knew daylight was coming and he didn't wanna get turned to ash. Actually, the entire vampire coven was at a huge disadvantage in that battle because of the coming daylight and the fact that they were severely outnumbered.

I don't see how trying to get an advantage by a surprise attack makes the person a coward. In combat, a smart tactician tries to gain any advantage he can no matter who he's fighting. I think Viktor realized that Lucian was no joke and so trying for a sneak attack wasn't a bad move at all. Doesn't mean he was afraid of him. If you remember, in Evolution Marcus did same thing against Michael in their second fight. You don't think Marcus is a coward for that do you? Again, the element of surprise is a very formidable advantage in battle. A wise combatant always tries to attain it. Not cowardly. It's smart.

I also have to agree with the idiot that Viktor only lost that fight against Lucien because he was at a huge disadvantage because of sunlight. His freedom of movement was restricted because of it unlike Lucien since sunlight doesn't hurt him at all. I have to admit I was very surprised (and disappointed) though that Sonja beat Viktor like that. I just chalked it up to Viktor holding back because she was his daughter. You could say "Well, if that was the case then why did he let her be executed like he did if he cared about her so much." Except for the fact that that was after he learned about the hybrid child she was carrying inside her. He didn't know that when he was fighting her. Or it could be that she was just a more skilled swordsman than him. In an unarmed fight I'm pretty sure he'd kill her easily IF he wanted to.

It was pretty evident to me that Viktor finally (after a tough fight) had Michael beaten before Selene stepped in and saved Michael by getting a sneak attack in on Viktor. As I said before, there's no way an unamped Selene could've beaten Viktor in a straight-up fight. Viktor had aged considerably at time of first movie and was much more powerful than he was in ROTL. Yes, the idiot is correct that the older a vampire gets the more powerful he gets. That's also the main reason why Marcus would always beat Viktor in a fair fight no matter what. Because he's older, will always be more powerful, and in fact he's the one who made Viktor. I disagree with the poster who said that without the hybrid upgrade that Marcus would lose to Viktor. There is nothing to suggest that Marcus as a pure vampire (still, the original and most powerful) would lose to a younger vampire who isn't a hybrid. It's just that the hybrid upgrade makes it much easier.

When a vampire goes into a long hibernation sleep he gets lots of rest. Which is important for him/her. While they're in hibernation they don't need blood. If being in that state caused them to be "starved" as you say then why would a vampire do it? It doesn't make sense to me. I don't think being without blood during a long sleep makes them weaker overall as you seem to be suggesting. Otherwise, why would a vampire go into that sleep if it makes them weaker when they're awake again? It's obvious to me that vampires go into a deep sleep because it benefits them. The passage of time makes a vampire stronger regardless if they're awake or in a hibernation sleep. I agree that when they first wake up that they're very weak, yes but after they get enough blood in them they are stronger than they were before they went into a deep sleep.

Marcus still beats Viktor pretty easily though.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
While i agree that hybrid Marcus is stronger on paper, awakened Viktor seemed stronger as well imo, just by the way he humiliated Raze in werewolf form and the fact how everyone just shit their pants at the news of his resurrection.

Marcus can win but Viktor rips his wings off and tells him to go sit in the corner more often than not.

😆

Uh, no... and I thought Quan was the only idiot here. 😕

Originally posted by Star428
😆

Uh, no... and I thought Quan was the only idiot here. 😕

You have defied me for the last time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Incorrect. Lucian's comments and their on screen portrayal made it clear. We also see the similar feats from Viktor in a much more impressive fashion by tossing Michael as opposed to the human.

We saw plenty of vampires made well before the Lycans who stormed the castle and they needed weapons to deal with their Lycan form. Viktor was powerful enough to easily subdue the Lycan form. We can't look past this fear just because.

Viktor was flat out superior to Lucian.

Make what clear? That their respective strengths didn't increase at the same pace? Basically what I'm saying is if Lucian was 40% of Viktor's strength, then he would always be at 40% no matter how old they became because they both increase at a set pace. Barring any outside amps that is.

True but the Lycan form makes them more powerful so they are able to match and exceed lesser vamps. This doesn't bridge the gap between them and significantly older vamps tho.

I know he's superior. I never said otherwise

Originally posted by juggerman
Make what clear? That their respective strengths didn't increase at the same pace? Basically what I'm saying is if Lucian was 40% of Viktor's strength, then he would always be at 40% no matter how old they became because they both increase at a set pace. Barring any outside amps that is.

True but the Lycan form makes them more powerful so they are able to match and exceed lesser vamps. This doesn't bridge the gap between them and significantly older vamps tho.

I know he's superior. I never said otherwise

The Lycans killed the elder Amelia rather easily. Acting as if any other vampires have done what Viktor did with strength alone is wishful thinking.

I am glad you agree he is superior. That is a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nothing Lucian did in the first underworld film showed anything as impressive as what Viktor was able to do in the first film.

The Lycans killed the elder Amelia rather easily. Acting as if any other vampires have done what Viktor did with strength alone is wishful thinking.

I am glad you agree he is superior. That is a step in the right direction.

Doesn't matter, it's power scaling. Lucian was the strongest Lycan since he was the first(Remember there's a difference between Lycans and Werewolves). He was never as strong as Viktor since Viktor was much older, hence why I used 40%.

We never saw how she was killed. Even Viktor can be overwhelmed by a sneak attack by a lot of Lycans

Ok

Originally posted by Star428
😆

Uh, no... and I thought Quan was the only idiot here. 😕

Calm down 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't have a clip handy, just a copy of the movie on DVD.

Actually, it makes perfect sense if Lucian knows that his "victory" over Viktor was an outlier unlikely to be repeated. It's not like the first Underworld movie is any more or less canon than the prequel. If you want to flagrantly disregard a crucial plot point of the first film in order to fuel your e-grudge against a troll, be my guest, but I'm not.

It couldn't be that because R.O.T.L wasn't even written yet... so he wasn't saying that because he knew anything about a victory that wasn't even written yet. So we can exclude that from the whole equation logically. Plus, when you add in the fact that he lost to his daughter and was disarmed easily... then it makes even more sense that Lucian could defeat him.

Originally posted by Star428
I know I said I was done with this thread but I couldn't resist coming back after re-watching Evolution a few days ago. I'll just ignore Quan's obvious trolling posts... Although I agree with the people like you who say Marcus beats Viktor pretty easily I disagree with a lot of your statements. In ROTL, Viktor didn't flee Lucian because he was afraid of him but because he knew daylight was coming and he didn't wanna get turned to ash. Actually, the entire vampire coven was at a huge disadvantage in that battle because of the coming daylight and the fact that they were severely outnumbered.

I don't see how trying to get an advantage by a surprise attack makes the person a coward. In combat, a smart tactician tries to gain any advantage he can no matter who he's fighting. I think Viktor realized that Lucian was no joke and so trying for a sneak attack wasn't a bad move at all. Doesn't mean he was afraid of him. If you remember, in Evolution Marcus did same thing against Michael in their second fight. You don't think Marcus is a coward for that do you? Again, the element of surprise is a very formidable advantage in battle. A wise combatant always tries to attain it. Not cowardly. It's smart.

I also have to agree with the idiot that Viktor only lost that fight against Lucien because he was at a huge disadvantage because of sunlight. His freedom of movement was restricted because of it unlike Lucien since sunlight doesn't hurt him at all. I have to admit I was very surprised (and disappointed) though that Sonja beat Viktor like that. I just chalked it up to Viktor holding back because she was his daughter. You could say "Well, if that was the case then why did he let her be executed like he did if he cared about her so much." Except for the fact that that was after he learned about the hybrid child she was carrying inside her. He didn't know that when he was fighting her. Or it could be that she was just a more skilled swordsman than him. In an unarmed fight I'm pretty sure he'd kill her easily IF he wanted to.

It was pretty evident to me that Viktor finally (after a tough fight) had Michael beaten before Selene stepped in and saved Michael by getting a sneak attack in on Viktor. As I said before, there's no way an unamped Selene could've beaten Viktor in a straight-up fight. Viktor had aged considerably at time of first movie and was much more powerful than he was in ROTL. Yes, the idiot is correct that the older a vampire gets the more powerful he gets. That's also the main reason why Marcus would always beat Viktor in a fair fight no matter what. Because he's older, will always be more powerful, and in fact he's the one who made Viktor. I disagree with the poster who said that without the hybrid upgrade that Marcus would lose to Viktor. There is nothing to suggest that Marcus as a pure vampire (still, the original and most powerful) would lose to a younger vampire who isn't a hybrid. It's just that the hybrid upgrade makes it much easier.

When a vampire goes into a long hibernation sleep he gets lots of rest. Which is important for him/her. While they're in hibernation they don't need blood. If being in that state caused them to be "starved" as you say then why would a vampire do it? It doesn't make sense to me. I don't think being without blood during a long sleep makes them weaker overall as you seem to be suggesting. Otherwise, why would a vampire go into that sleep if it makes them weaker when they're awake again? It's obvious to me that vampires go into a deep sleep because it benefits them. The passage of time makes a vampire stronger regardless if they're awake or in a hibernation sleep. I agree that when they first wake up that they're very weak, yes but after they get enough blood in them they are stronger than they were before they went into a deep sleep.

Marcus still beats Viktor pretty easily though.

You make points I never disagreed with.. For example, you seem to say I don't agree that they get stronger with age. I never once stated any such thing.. What I asked for proof of is that he got MASSIVELY stronger from R.O.T.L.. which is what Smush claimed. That is what I asked for proof of. A general statement saying that elders get stronger with age isn't a specific thing.. nor is it a set thing. So when quan states that he's gotten MASSIVELY stronger.. I'm going to need proof of that, as opposed to a little stronger or kinda stronger. No statement like massive or ANYTHING was made about Viktor.. so he need to prove massively stronger. Point is, I never once disagreed with the premise that they get stronger with age.

next, I never said they get weaker when they are in hibernation.. what I asked for proof of.. is that they can get STRONGER while in a hibernated state. I see NO evidence to suggest any such thing. While they are awake and feeding I believe they can increase their power.. while they are in a starved state.. I have seen no proof that they can get stronger. If you have proof then please post it. If not, they you dnot' know that they can. Further, I don't believe it makes them weaker when they wake up.. For example if Viktor is a 20 before hibernation.. I believe he's a 20 when he wakes up and can grow to a 21 while he's awake. Thus, when he wakes up he'll be a 21 again and so on. I see nothing to suggest that he'll increase in power while starved. That makes no logical sense. Do we or any animal get stronger when we aren't feeding? Of course not, our bodies are in a weakened state. Seems like common sense to me.

Next, the fact remains that he was swinging the sword AT HER and either trying to kill or or disarm her. He wasn't sitting there talking to her and reasoning with her.. He was ACTIVELY striking out at her trying to do one of the tow things I mentioned. Yet, for his troubles he was promptly disarmed and beaten. That is no excusing that.. he was disarmed and beaten.. simple

As far as the Lucian fight goes... the reason I bring up him trying a sneak attack is because Smush said Markus didn't beat Michael because it was a sneak attack. So I rightly pointed out... that Viktor tried to sneak attack Lucian and FAILED. Smush is trying to make it seem like Viktor is some unbeatable warrior and Lucian is nothing to him. I was showing that Viktor's actions seem to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are long and hideous. I bet your gf is very unattractive. Teehee. Girls don't like lanky, uncoordinated looking doofuses such as yourself. You are one upset, long face.

He was leaving the battlefield because there were far too many Lycans. He then disarmed Lucian in combat. Being more powerful doesn't mean he can easily kill him at that time. You seem to not know the difference between all the other aspects and are acting childish again. Viktor proved to be his superior skill wise. He was unable to fight back due to the sunlight and despite that Lucian was still unable to kill him.

Lucian cheap tackled him and was still disarmed. The sun was brought into the fight proving Lucian can't take him on or beat him straight up. Definitive proof.

He was about to kill him and said as much. Selene intervened because Michael was about to die. Michael was at his mercy and someone else intervened. Viktor himself beat Sonja.

🙂

No, it wasn't and you haven't supported it. You can't starve for one hundred years. You're ignoring the definition. With age they grow in power. Every year or extra day he becomes stronger as per the words. You need to prove the claim that the elders who were the strongest of the covens somehow were weaker. I already proved it by direct feats. 🙂

I already proved it by two feats. Viktor tossing Michael through the wall as opposed to tossing the human. Based off what did Michael weigh a lot more than the human ? How much is a lot more ? If he weighs a lot more than it is harder to throw a heavier person anyways. You just proved my point anyways since you say he is far heavier yet Viktor tossed him effortlessly through a wall anyways.

We never saw any vampire overpower a Lycan before. So we have two feats this proving Viktor has grown in power over the years along with the fact it's stated anyways the elders are the strongest despite them sleeping.

Markus is stronger due to being older. Michael was also stronger and considerably faster than Markus. Viktor came out on top.

Viktor defeated his daughter. It was proven one sword stab didn't even kill him and he won on his own.
Viktor disarmed Lucian. The sun kept him boxed in unable to defend himself thus proving greater skill in hand to hand combat.
Viktor defeated Michael and was about to kill him which is why Selene intervened.
That wasn't a fair fight.

Selene killed Markus in a fair fight.

Viktor wins just like how he beat Michael.

😂

Uncoordinated LOL.. There isn't one sport you could beat me at midget... Besides I would be afraid I might step on you if we did play a sport gainst one another and I'd be sued. Point is, anytime you wanna take up that challenge I'm game. You're aren't in my league and it would be evident if we ever went out together. You would get no play and I would. Simple smush.

wrong again... He tried to sneak attack him because he wasn't sure he could take him in battle. If he was so confident why try a sneak attack? You wouldn't. viktor clearly wasn't confident he could beat him, and he's right, since ya know he was killed by Lucian You said Viktor was a tactical fighter.. HE CHOSE to go down there and fight Lucian.. that was his choice to do so. Bad idea.. he has nobody to blaim but himself for putting himself in that situation. Hardly a good tactician eh. Lucian on the other hand clearly was, and used the environment to his advantage to beat Viktor. Sorry mush just how the cookie crumbles.

You're asking for proof on why a half lycan and vampire would be weight more than a human? God you're an idiot. Bigger... stronger.. denser.. all of the above. You talked about the DAMAGE of the throw.. not the weight. The wall was ALREADY broken and had a hole in it.. not to mention clearly dilapidated. The pillar was firm and sparkly clean. Viktor could've thrown a human at that wall and it would've broken just the same. Breaking the pillar with less volume was more impressive than sending somebody through a wall almost falling apart anyways.

You STILL haven't proven he was MASSIVELY stronger as you claim. I'm still waiting on that proof. A general statement that they get stronger wish age isn't proof at all. He could only get a little stronger ever 300 hundred years. It could mean any number of things. Nothing suggest MASSIVELY as you claim. So back up your claim or concede you have no idea if he did.

You're right there is nothing shown of him doing that to a lycan before thus he could've done that in R.O.T.L just the same. You have no proof he couldn't smush. I know you're a bad debater.. but to support your claim as you suggest.. you would need to show Viktor not being able to do that to a lycan and then him doing that to Raze would be proof. Problem is you can't show that so it doesn't support your claim.

Again moron... people turn the tides in battle ALL the time... Do you even watch combat sports or any professional sport. A football team can be down 28 and comeback.. a fighter could almost be submitted and break out.. the list goes on and on.. Viktor DIDN'T defeat Michael. .. It's that simple. If you have an extra deleted scene I dont' post it where he kills Michael. If not, Viktor simple had the advantage at that point in the fight and it wasn't looking good.. nothing more can be said. If you have the scene where he defeats him post it.

Here are the facts

Viktor lost to Lucian by being a tactical moron
Victor was disarmed and beaten by his daughter with ease
Viktor wasn't able to kill Michael and was unable to react to an attack from an unamped Selene

MarKus was able to kill a more used to his powers and stronger Michael and treat him like a feeb another time.
He faced an amped selene and had her beat before PIS.

There are no getting around these points smush midget. Sorry you lose.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Uncoordinated LOL.. There isn't one sport you could beat me at midget... Besides I would be afraid I might step on you if we did play a sport gainst one another and I'd be sued. Point is, anytime you wanna take up that challenge I'm game. You're aren't in my league and it would be evident if we ever went out together. You would get no play and I would. Simple smush.

wrong again... He tried to sneak attack him because he wasn't sure he could take him in battle. If he was so confident why try a sneak attack? You wouldn't. viktor clearly wasn't confident he could beat him, and he's right, since ya know he was killed by Lucian You said Viktor was a tactical fighter.. HE CHOSE to go down there and fight Lucian.. that was his choice to do so. Bad idea.. he has nobody to blaim but himself for putting himself in that situation. Hardly a good tactician eh. Lucian on the other hand clearly was, and used the environment to his advantage to beat Viktor. Sorry mush just how the cookie crumbles.

You're asking for proof on why a half lycan and vampire would be weight more than a human? God you're an idiot. Bigger... stronger.. denser.. all of the above. You talked about the DAMAGE of the throw.. not the weight. The wall was ALREADY broken and had a hole in it.. not to mention clearly dilapidated. The pillar was firm and sparkly clean. Viktor could've thrown a human at that wall and it would've broken just the same. Breaking the pillar with less volume was more impressive than sending somebody through a wall almost falling apart anyways.

You STILL haven't proven he was MASSIVELY stronger as you claim. I'm still waiting on that proof. A general statement that they get stronger wish age isn't proof at all. He could only get a little stronger ever 300 hundred years. It could mean any number of things. Nothing suggest MASSIVELY as you claim. So back up your claim or concede you have no idea if he did.

You're right there is nothing shown of him doing that to a lycan before thus he could've done that in R.O.T.L just the same. You have no proof he couldn't smush. I know you're a bad debater.. but to support your claim as you suggest.. you would need to show Viktor not being able to do that to a lycan and then him doing that to Raze would be proof. Problem is you can't show that so it doesn't support your claim.

Again moron... people turn the tides in battle ALL the time... Do you even watch combat sports or any professional sport. A football team can be down 28 and comeback.. a fighter could almost be submitted and break out.. the list goes on and on.. Viktor DIDN'T defeat Michael. .. It's that simple. If you have an extra deleted scene I dont' post it where he kills Michael. If not, Viktor simple had the advantage at that point in the fight and it wasn't looking good.. nothing more can be said. If you have the scene where he defeats him post it.

Here are the facts

Viktor lost to Lucian by being a tactical moron
Victor was disarmed and beaten by his daughter with ease
Viktor wasn't able to kill Michael and was unable to react to an attack from an unamped Selene

MarKus was able to kill a more used to his powers and stronger Michael and treat him like a feeb another time.
He faced an amped selene and had her beat before PIS.

There are no getting around these points smush midget. Sorry you lose.

No, that isn't correct. When he realized Lucian was coming for him he attacked when he got close. What you are saying isn't supported by anything other than your long faced fantasies. This was explained by myself and the other poster. You're too stupid to get it and are stuck in an endless loop of repeating without anyway of actually explaining your claims.

Viktor was not killed by Lucian, Abe. You are lying again. The sun was up and there was nothing he could do about that. He still disarmed Lucian proving he's better with swords than Lucian is. Again, Viktor can't block out the sun. What you're saying makes no sense and is awful debating. Try to use your brain for a change.

That isn't proof he weighs a lot more but either way like I said throwing someone who weighs more is a lot more difficult. If you are bigger and denser you weigh more, Abe. You are hands down really stupid and long faced. Your stupidy almost matches the length of your face, Lincoln. Incorrect. Viktor tossing a much bigger hybrid through is vastly more impressive according to you. 🙂

Yes, I have since I posted about the feats and the time that had passed since the rise of the Lycans. It wasn't just three hundred years but the feats speak for themselves. You ignore and make things up. 😉

A Lycan is shown against Viktor and he doesn't overpower the Lycan. Did you not see the film ? I have an on screen instance in which he did not overpower the Lycan. Watch the films, Abe.

He didn't turn the tide in battle and again you have no proof he was going to break free. Viktor defeated Michael and you have unsupported theory or speculation which isn't proof.

Viktor disarmed Lucian and wasn't killed despite the sun keeping him immobile.
Viktor defeated his daughter despite you saying otherwise. He ended it with a knife to her throat. Viktor defeated Michael and needed an attack from Selene because she couldn't directly beat him even though she beat Markus fair and square.

Markus knocked him off a truck. Since he couldn't fly he couldn't get back there. Markus cheapshotted him thus proving to your logic he wasn't confident he could beat him in a fair fight. Selene won. Quit bringing up pis and being biased.

Go long, Abe. Oh wait too late. 😂

Viktor wins. You're a clod and a horrible debater who can't even use proper sentence structure half the time or understand the movies. I don't even believe you've seen them as you claimed Viktor slept from rise to underworld part one.

😂

Originally posted by juggerman
Doesn't matter, it's power scaling. Lucian was the strongest Lycan since he was the first(Remember there's a difference between Lycans and Werewolves). He was never as strong as Viktor since Viktor was much older, hence why I used 40%.

We never saw how she was killed. Even Viktor can be overwhelmed by a sneak attack by a lot of Lycans

Ok

Older vampires still can't beat up younger Lycans physically that is why they need weapons.

We never saw her do anything significantly in terms of combat and we see that Viktor has the feats. He was also older than Amelia.