Viktor vs Markus

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your face is awful and your lanky and horribly built.

I said he went away initially because they were overrun. That was true. Viktor didn't defeat him due to sunlight restricting his movement. I have said this from the beginning, long face.

1. Because they were overrun by Lycans. Same reason, long face.
2. He was preserving his life despite being overrun. Very smart move.
3. Sunlight, he can't control the sun. Lucian still failed to kill him despite sunlight dictating this.

Viktor disarmed him first and then Lucian needed sunlight. Watch the film again, long face.

Yes, I've said as much. Do you read my own posts, long face ? He bfr'd him due to his inability to fly. He also impaled him in a cheapshot manner.

Due to Viktor facing his opponent and having him in a chokehold. It was not a fair fight unlike when Selene killed Markus.

1. [B]Their strength increases with age.

http://underworld.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire

2. He was not starved and they grow in power with age. Why the elders are more powerful and why any immortal is more powerful due to an older age.

I do realize he wasn't sleeping since the rise of the Lycans till the first movie. How else would he have made Selene, long face.

They do not sleep for hundreds of years and I already proved it, long face. You don't even comprehend the films and believed foolishly he slept from that point till the point of Viktor's awakening.

😂

We know Viktor altered history to favor him and on screen captured William while Markus called him my lord after this betrayal. It was always Viktor's coven. He was the mastermind. [/B]

Your face looks like you ran into a wall and it's permanently smushed.... I should call you smush parker... not even mentioning how squatty you are. I've seen shit stacked higher than you. You're not even in my league kid... I couldn't even bring you along as a wingman because you bring nothing to the table... though I guess it would leave them all to me I suppose.

1. He wasn't overrun when he was downstairs... so why did he try and hide and cheap shot Lucien then? If he was so powerful why did he need to cheapshot him instead of engaging him head on?

2. They fought downstairs for awhile before Viktor was boxes in as you say... why wasn't he able to kill him before that point or avoid even being put in that position to begin with since you say he's such a tactical warrior smush?

In the link you provided it OUTRIGHT STATES MARKUS IS THE MOST POWERFUL VAMPIRE. It's literally states this in black and white. I know you're terrible at debating and the laughing stock of all site you post on smush.. but I didn't think you were THAT bad. Thanks for backhand concession that I'm right and Markus wins.

Not starved? You truly are a moron smush... They are basically skeletons when they sleep because they've been deprived of blood. hence needing 30 tubes in them pumping them with blood to regain their strength. It literally shows a drop of blood awaking all parts of the body... hence he was starved while they sleep. Now post the proof I was asking for ugly duckling

1. Prove that Vampires while sleeping and malnourished gain strength and power

2. You said he got MASSIVELY stronger from Rise of the Lycans.. I'm still waiting for proof of that. Citing a link that states they get stronger with age isn't proof ugly. That's a very general statement that I never disagreed with. What I'm asking for is for you to back up your claim that he was MASSIVELY stronger by the time of the first film. There is no single mention of him becoming massively stronger in the first movie at all. NONE. So unless you can back up your claim.. FINALLY with proof.. I'll accept your concession that you have no clue how much stronger viktor got.

I never said that.. I said even if he was awoke before the first film after he's DEFEAT by Lucian... he would only be awake for 100 years.. and then asleep again for 200 and awoke again. So unless you can provide proof they grow more powerful while in a sleeping starved state then he's been sleeping far more than awake. But like usual duckling you wont' provide proof.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Still siding with Markus here.

That said, Viktor was nerfed pretty badly in Rise of the Lycans. But I think you can chalk up his defeat at Sonja's hands to a reluctance to kill his daughter or, worst case scenario, inferior skill as a swordsman. As an Elder, though, Viktor should be immensely more powerful.

As far as Lucian vs. Viktor goes, there again: you can probably attribute that to an outlier performance, if only for the fact that Lucian himself tells Kraven in the first Underworld movie that he needs Michael precisely because he can't beat Viktor alone.

You're not swinging a sword at someone you're not trying to kill. He was trying to kill her and failed and got promptly disarmed in the process. Terrible showing against and inferior vampire.

IF he was more powerful than Lucien.. why did he try and run and hite and sneak attack him instead of just face him down? Clearly, he was fearful of the power of Lucien which proved correct and he was outmaneuvered and beaten. These are one off showings.. they are canon showings that he's not as a good a warrior as some would like to believe.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're not swinging a sword at someone you're not trying to kill.

Untrue. He could have been trying to disarm her with his swings. Could he have killed her? Yes. But he didn't need to be trying to.

Also I'd like to point out that Lucien aged just as much as Viktor over that time so the difference in their respective strengths would be the same. Same with ever other immortal that was alive at that time.

Originally posted by juggerman
Untrue. He could have been trying to disarm her with his swings. Could he have killed her? Yes. But he didn't need to be trying to.

You swing a sword at somebody you're trying to defeat.. whether that be kill them or disarm them... Yet for all his troubles he was promptly disarmed and had a sword to his chest. Either way he was defeated.

Can somebody post the scene where Lucien says he can't take Viktor.. I always remember Kraven saying that not Viktor.. why would Lucien feel he couldn't take Viktor when he already defeated him... that makes no sense and I don't think it happened.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You swing a sword at somebody you're trying to defeat.. whether that be kill them or disarm them... Yet for all his troubles he was promptly disarmed and had a sword to his chest. Either way he was defeated.

I agree

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Can somebody post the scene where Lucien says he can't take Viktor.. I always remember Kraven saying that not Viktor.. why would Lucien feel he couldn't take Viktor when he already defeated him... that makes no sense and I don't think it happened.

I'm pretty sure it did happen but that was before Rise was even thought of and ****ed the past up. I'll look for the scene.

Anyone who says Victor loses is trolling. Victor is a league above Marcus. Read the Op guys. 😂

I can't find the scene but I believe it was when Lucian was talking to Kraven in the car. I think he said something like "If killing Viktor was so easy, you'd have done it centuries ago. That is why we need Michael."

Originally posted by juggerman
I can't find the scene but I believe it was when Lucian was talking to Kraven in the car. I think he said something like "If killing Viktor was so easy, you'd have done it centuries ago. That is why we need Michael."

Close. It's actually near the end of the movie, when the Death Dealers are assaulting Lucian's lair.

Kraven: How do you expect me to assume control now that Viktor's awake? There's no defeating him. He grows stronger as we speak.

Lucian: And that is precisely why I need Michael. If Viktor were so easy to dispatch...you'd have done it yourself centuries ago.

Ultimately, the entire plot of the first movie is set into motion because Lucian needs Michael to defeat Viktor. OOU, Lycans wouldn't be made for another 6 years. IU, however, it's pretty evident to me that Lucian's victory was as circumstantial as it gets.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Your face looks like you ran into a wall and it's permanently smushed.... I should call you smush parker... not even mentioning how squatty you are. I've seen shit stacked higher than you. You're not even in my league kid... I couldn't even bring you along as a wingman because you bring nothing to the table... though I guess it would leave them all to me I suppose.

1. He wasn't overrun when he was downstairs... so why did he try and hide and cheap shot Lucien then? If he was so powerful why did he need to cheapshot him instead of engaging him head on?

2. They fought downstairs for awhile before Viktor was boxes in as you say... why wasn't he able to kill him before that point or avoid even being put in that position to begin with since you say he's such a tactical warrior smush?

In the link you provided it OUTRIGHT STATES MARKUS IS THE MOST POWERFUL VAMPIRE. It's literally states this in black and white. I know you're terrible at debating and the laughing stock of all site you post on smush.. but I didn't think you were THAT bad. Thanks for backhand concession that I'm right and Markus wins.

Not starved? You truly are a moron smush... They are basically skeletons when they sleep because they've been deprived of blood. hence needing 30 tubes in them pumping them with blood to regain their strength. It literally shows a drop of blood awaking all parts of the body... hence he was starved while they sleep. Now post the proof I was asking for ugly duckling

1. Prove that Vampires while sleeping and malnourished gain strength and power

2. You said he got MASSIVELY stronger from Rise of the Lycans.. I'm still waiting for proof of that. Citing a link that states they get stronger with age isn't proof ugly. That's a very general statement that I never disagreed with. What I'm asking for is for you to back up your claim that he was MASSIVELY stronger by the time of the first film. There is no single mention of him becoming massively stronger in the first movie at all. NONE. So unless you can back up your claim.. FINALLY with proof.. I'll accept your concession that you have no clue how much stronger viktor got.

I never said that.. I said even if he was awoke before the first film after he's DEFEAT by Lucian... he would only be awake for 100 years.. and then asleep again for 200 and awoke again. So unless you can provide proof they grow more powerful while in a sleeping starved state then he's been sleeping far more than awake. But like usual duckling you wont' provide proof.

1. Due to knowing the Lycans overtook the stronghold. He knew he needed to escape as the genius he is. He wanted to kill Lucian that is why, long face. He did engage him, longest face.

2. Viktor got the better of him and disarmed him. Lucian used the sunlight to his advantage. He is a better fighter hence disarming him and surviving sunlight and a sword stab through the head. 🙂

I never said Viktor was more powerful. Markus is older but again he is dumber. He allowed Viktor to impose his will on the coven. He wasn't as powerful as Michael or as quick yet he still prevailed. 🙂

Starved means died. He comes back to and as I proved older age means more powerful so he grew quite considerably in power since rise of the Lycans since multiple centuries had passed.

1. I don't need to as I proved the older they get the more powerful they become. If you feel this didn't apply to Viktor prove it. You have yet to prove anything other than you have a wretched long face.

2. Multiple centuries and the proof being they grow stronger with increased age. I proved it. That is proof and Viktor overpowering a very old Lycan with his bare hands and tossing Michael through a wall proved he gained considerable strength since the last time he tossed someone in Rise of the Lycans.

You clearly said he was asleep until underworld one proving you're an idiot along with long faced. You have no concept of the films and are clearly uneducated. I have proven my case whereas you have proven your stupidity.

Viktor clearly wins.

🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Close. It's actually near the end of the movie, when the Death Dealers are assaulting Lucian's lair.

Ultimately, the entire plot of the first movie is set into motion because Lucian needs Michael to defeat Viktor. OOU, Lycans wouldn't be made for another 6 years. IU, however, it's pretty evident to me that Lucian's victory was as circumstantial as it gets.

Actually my star wars friend.. this is where you're wrong and why Lucian defeating him in ROTL wasn't circumstantial at all... They were planning on killing Viktor before he even was awake. Their was plan never to have Michael kill Viktor. Kraven didn't even know Lucian was looking for Michael. So that's where you're wrong. Nor did Lucian ever say he couldn't defeat Viktor. The whole thing with Michael was that he was supposed to bridge the gap between the two species showing they could co-exist and weren't just enemies even at the molecular level as stated by the doctor.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually my star wars friend.. this is where you're wrong and why Lucian defeating him in ROTL wasn't circumstantial at all... They were planning on killing Viktor before he even was awake. Their was plan never to have Michael kill Viktor. Kraven didn't even know Lucian was looking for Michael. So that's where you're wrong. Nor did Lucian ever say he couldn't defeat Viktor. The whole thing with Michael was that he was supposed to bridge the gap between the two species showing they could co-exist and weren't just enemies even at the molecular level as stated by the doctor.

😂

Viktor's power by feats grew exploit exponentially since then. I already posted comparisons along with the irrefutable proof that age equals greater power in the underworld verse.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Close.

I'll take it

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor's power by feats grew exploit exponentially since then. I already posted comparisons along with the irrefutable proof that age equals greater power in the underworld verse.

All that means is that the gap between Viktor and Lucian would have stayed consistent. So technically Lucian had the same potential/odds of beating Viktor as he did in Rise. Granted he would need to exploit him again but I could be done.

Originally posted by juggerman
All that means is that the gap between Viktor and Lucian would have stayed consistent. So technically Lucian had the same potential/odds of beating Viktor as he did in [u]Rise[\u]. Granted he would need to exploit him again but I could be done.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is exactly what a long face would say to a hot face such as myself. Hush, ugly.

1. Due to knowing the Lycans overtook the stronghold. He knew he needed to escape as the genius he is. He wanted to kill Lucian that is why, long face. He did engage him, longest face.

2. Viktor got the better of him and disarmed him. Lucian used the sunlight to his advantage. He is a better fighter hence disarming him and surviving sunlight and a sword stab through the head. 🙂

I never said Viktor was more powerful. Markus is older but again he is dumber. He allowed Viktor to impose his will on the coven. He wasn't as powerful as Michael or as quick yet he still prevailed. 🙂

Starved means died. He comes back to and as I proved older age means more powerful so he grew quite considerably in power since rise of the Lycans since multiple centuries had passed.

1. I don't need to as I proved the older they get the more powerful they become. If you feel this didn't apply to Viktor prove it. You have yet to prove anything other than you have a wretched long face.

2. Multiple centuries and the proof being they grow stronger with increased age. I proved it. That is proof and Viktor overpowering a very old Lycan with his bare hands and tossing Michael through a wall proved he gained considerable strength since the last time he tossed someone in Rise of the Lycans.

You clearly said he was asleep until underworld one proving you're an idiot along with long faced. You have no concept of the films and are clearly uneducated. I have proven my case whereas you have proven your stupidity.

Viktor clearly wins.

🙂

All you can say is long face because you know I'm better looking than you Smush Face.. or should I just call you squatty? Which do you prefer? You know girl like tall handsome men like me.. like short men who look like they ran into a wall. You aren't even in my league kid.

If he was so powerful he could've killed him when they first met in the big battle scene.. they fought for a bit and then he left.. He couldn't get the job done and he RUNS AND HIDES

You admonished Markus for sneak attacking Michael... Yet Viktor didn't have the balls to face Lucian head on.. he runs.. hides and then tires to cheapshot Lucian... Certainly doesn't seem like he's somebody who thinks he's more powerful than Lucian. If he did.. why not just escape the main battle and engage him head on? I know, because he's weak and doesn't trust his abilities.

If Viktor was such a good fighter.. why did he follow Lucian into the well then? Knowing he'd be in an enclosed space? Because he's a shitty tactician and it cost him dearly. He was utterly crushed with ease once he made the tactical error.

You see we generally go with who is more powerful in these battles squatty... Markus is more powerful and older and has more abilities. Thus he wins.. I'm glad you post the link so you could concede without having to actual concede. Good job smush

You didn't agree he was Starving.. which is absolutely was. You don't even know how the word can be used smush.. here is the definition for you clownshoes "suffer severely or die from hunger" That fits it Perfectly. He was exactly that. Hence why he was nothing but bones with no activity until one drop of blood got his whole body working again. They made this scene so clear that I thought even and ugly smush face would get it.. guess not. Which bring me to my next question you still haven't answered

1. Post the proof that vampires in underworld grow more powerful in a starved state like Viktor was more often than he was awake. As you admit he was asleep more than he was awake.. So I want the proof he can grow more powerful even in that state. You keep avoiding the question because you can't prove it and you know it. If you avoid the question one more time I'll accept your concession on this point.

2. Lastly you said he got massively stronger.. I'm still waiting for the proof on that... All you did was post a link saying vampires get stronger with age.. A very general statement...I could be only slightly stronger per century (yet we know Viktor was only awake 1 century out of every 3) General statements don't prove massively stronger as you claim. Either prove he got massively stronger or I'll accept your concession on this point as well.

Point is, Viktor has been beaten more times than he's beaten anybody of note. He was disarmed and beaten easily by his weaker daughter. He was beaten by Lucian and made to go to sleep. He was beaten by selene and couldn't react to her attack. Who has he beaten of note? Raze... sorry not good enough. So squatty smush... post the proof I ask for or this debate is over and you got crushed easily by me like always.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
All you can say is long face because you know I'm better looking than you Smush Face.. or should I just call you squatty? Which do you prefer? You know girl like tall handsome men like me.. like short men who look like they ran into a wall. You aren't even in my league kid.

If he was so powerful he could've killed him when they first met in the big battle scene.. they fought for a bit and then he left.. He couldn't get the job done and he RUNS AND HIDES

You admonished Markus for sneak attacking Michael... Yet Viktor didn't have the balls to face Lucian head on.. he runs.. hides and then tires to cheapshot Lucian... Certainly doesn't seem like he's somebody who thinks he's more powerful than Lucian. If he did.. why not just escape the main battle and engage him head on? I know, because he's weak and doesn't trust his abilities.

If Viktor was such a good fighter.. why did he follow Lucian into the well then? Knowing he'd be in an enclosed space? Because he's a shitty tactician and it cost him dearly. He was utterly crushed with ease once he made the tactical error.

You see we generally go with who is more powerful in these battles squatty... Markus is more powerful and older and has more abilities. Thus he wins.. I'm glad you post the link so you could concede without having to actual concede. Good job smush

You didn't agree he was Starving.. which is absolutely was. You don't even know how the word can be used smush.. here is the definition for you clownshoes "suffer severely or die from hunger" That fits it Perfectly. He was exactly that. Hence why he was nothing but bones with no activity until one drop of blood got his whole body working again. They made this scene so clear that I thought even and ugly smush face would get it.. guess not. Which bring me to my next question you still haven't answered

1. Post the proof that vampires in underworld grow more powerful in a starved state like Viktor was more often than he was awake. As you admit he was asleep more than he was awake.. So I want the proof he can grow more powerful even in that state. You keep avoiding the question because you can't prove it and you know it. If you avoid the question one more time I'll accept your concession on this point.

2. Lastly you said he got massively stronger.. I'm still waiting for the proof on that... All you did was post a link saying vampires get stronger with age.. A very general statement...I could be only slightly stronger per century (yet we know Viktor was only awake 1 century out of every 3) General statements don't prove massively stronger as you claim. Either prove he got massively stronger or I'll accept your concession on this point as well.

Point is, Viktor has been beaten more times than he's beaten anybody of note. He was disarmed and beaten easily by his weaker daughter. He was beaten by Lucian and made to go to sleep. He was beaten by selene and couldn't react to her attack. Who has he beaten of note? Raze... sorry not good enough. So squatty smush... post the proof I ask for or this debate is over and you got crushed easily by me like always.

You continue to repeat yourself. He grew in power over the years. He still showed he was greater with weaponry as he effectively disarmed Lucian. The castle was overrun by greater numbers so that is why he left due to intelligence after Lucian failed to kill him. Years later the vampires were in the better position due to Viktor's superiority in leadership despite the castle being annihilated save two vampires.

He did face him head on. Lucian fled from him in the chamber room after he took Sonja's medallion. Lucian fled. Lucian Cheapshotted Viktor onto the chains and yet Viktor still disarmed him. You are ignoring the situational circumstances of the Lycans overrunning the city. You just repeat yourself in chimpish fashion.

Lucian cheapshotted him. Viktor disarmed him. The sun isn't something even a great tactician can control. Despite the sun making him unable to defend himself Lucian was still unable to kill him. Viktor truly is great.

He is more powerful but so was Michael but Markus lacks Michael's movement speed. Viktor still defeated him. The same result applies here save for the speed disadvantage Michael had over him so it should go even easier.

Starving implies death. He was alive. You can't starve for one hundred years and not die. Viktor wasn't starving. You need to cite proof. You cannot prove he was starving unlike myself who has proven my claims.

1. I posted with age they grow more powerful. You haven't posted any proof as to suggest this doesn't apply to the elders when it clearly did or that this state prevented them from growing in strength. Even if what you say is true he was still older so thus he gained more power even using your long face logic. I proved my case whereas you have not proven anything.

2. I cited two examples along with the proof on top of that. He threw a human against a structure and damaged it. He later throws Michael through a wall thus proving his strength has indeed increased. He also easily overpowered Raze who doesn't sleep centuries away thus proving he is vastly stronger than this Lycan.

You ignored the circumstances of all the battles he was in. He beat the hybrid who is stronger, faster than all. Viktor also easily crushed Raze.

Viktor disarmed Lucian and was boxed in by the sun. You can't ignore context. Viktor also defeated Selene despite holding back against his own daughter.

Selene attacked him while he attacked another. He had the powerful hybrid in a chokehold. Selene defeated Markus in fair combat.

Viktor wins, long face.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually my star wars friend.. this is where you're wrong and why Lucian defeating him in ROTL wasn't circumstantial at all... They were planning on killing Viktor before he even was awake. Their was plan never to have Michael kill Viktor. Kraven didn't even know Lucian was looking for Michael. So that's where you're wrong. Nor did Lucian ever say he couldn't defeat Viktor. The whole thing with Michael was that he was supposed to bridge the gap between the two species showing they could co-exist and weren't just enemies even at the molecular level as stated by the doctor.

I never said their plan was for Michael to kill Viktor. The plan was for Lucian to harness Michael's unique cellular disposition and Amelia's Elder blood and hybridize himself. When Kraven declares that Viktor has been awakened, is growing stronger, and cannot be defeated, Lucian responds that that was why he needs Michael to begin with.

In other words, Lucian doesn't believe he can defeat Viktor without the power boost afforded by hybrid status. Since he has chronologically fought him before IU in Rise of the Lycans, that's pretty concrete evidence for me that Lucian knows Viktor would defeat him far more often than not.

In the end, it comes down to Lucian's own word versus the clumsy interpretation of those chugging Quan-flavored Haterade. I'm siding with the former. 👆