Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
lol i am not a facist. and when i talk to religious people, i am completley polite. dont worry. I dont support fundamentalism, and i think it is very wrong. I do change my views, so no, please dont compare me to fundamentalists who wont accept facts and will never change their opinion. But then what do you suppose we do about religion? Let it keep growing unopposed until the world IS a theocracy?
What in history gives you any basis for that claim?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavMy claim that religion is slowly taking over the world again? Look around you. 60% of americans believe that the bible is the literal word of god, as do many islamofacists who are quickly taking over europe. Look at france, or germany. Withing 15 years, the majority of those countries will be muslim. These are dangerous times. i do not want to live in a world dominated by religion, thank you very much.
What in history gives you any basis for that claim?
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
My claim that religion is slowly taking over the world again? Look around you. 60% of americans believe that the bible is the literal word of god, as do many islamofacists who are slowly taking over europe. Look at france, or germany. Withing 15 years, the majority of those countries will be muslim. These are dangerous times.
lol
maybe we should have another crusade?
against religion, or between religions? If it is against religion, it has to be a crusade of the mind. athiests have to be more active, we cant "believe in belief" because that is very dangerous. That only allows, and encourages, religion to grow. But no violence. I am strongly oppossed to violence in the name of religion.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
against religion, or between religions? If it is against religion, it has to be a crusade of the mind. athiests have to be more active, we cant "believe in belief" because that is very dangerous. That only allows, and encourages, religion to grow. But no violence. I am strongly oppossed to violence in the name of religion.
So...what about violence by say...Communists or Fascists or so on....are political ideologies also a danger?
If they force people to believe something ridiculous based on no evidence, than yes, it is dangerous. my parents grew up in Soviet Russia. They will be the first to tell you that the communist party was the closest thing to God that you could get in Russia.
So, to clarify, my problem isn't specifically with religion (btw, christian libertarians are okay. i have no real problems with them, but i dont see why a sensible person would believe in God. or maybe they interpret just about the whole bible metaphorically. idk, it would be interesting to talk to one through), it is with any system that makes people believe in nonsense without providing any substantial evidence to support the belief. Religion is just the biggest, most dangerous piece of nonsense, so that is why i am so against it.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
If they force people to believe something ridiculous based on no evidence, than yes, it is dangerous. my parents grew up in Soviet Russia. They will be the first to tell you that the communist party was the closest thing to God that you could get in Russia.
So, to clarify, my problem isn't specifically with religion (btw, christian libertarians are okay. i have no real problems with them, but i dont see why a sensible person would believe in God. or maybe they interpret just about the whole bible metaphorically. idk, it would be interesting to talk to one through), it is with any system that makes people believe in nonsense without providing any substantial evidence to support the belief. Religion is just the biggest, most dangerous piece of nonsense, so that is why i am so against it.
So do you think say...the Pope isn't a sensible person?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gavthats a good question. i dont know much about the pope, but i am no fan of the roman catholic church, and he is the head of it.... idk, thats hard to say. He is certiantly a good, generous person, but to believe so strongly in unprovable dogma....
So do you think say...the Pope isn't a sensible person?
and what does a 9mm have to do with this? it costs at least 300 for the pistol.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
thats a good question. i dont know much about the pope, but i am no fan of the roman catholic church, and he is the head of it.... idk, thats hard to say. He is certiantly a good, generous person, but to believe so strongly in unprovable dogma....and what does a 9mm have to do with this? it costs at least 300 for the pistol.
Ooh, whats your problems with the RCC?
I think he meant that you can either shoot the muslims or shoot yourself...
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavNiether. Teach the muslims while wearing a bulletproof super kevlar vest, sure.
Ooh, whats your problems with the RCC?I think he meant that you can either shoot the muslims or shoot yourself...
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Niether. Teach the muslims while wearing a bulletproof super kevlar vest, sure.
and do you not have problems with the RCC? Look at their history. look at what they are doing in Africa (the "no condom" genocide), look at the child abuse, both physically and emotional via instilling the deep and terrible fear of hell into children, etc. but they are not the only church i dont like.
Do you really think people who don't listen to the Church teaching on "don't have sex outside of marriage" will listen to the Church teaching on condoms? Honestly? Do you actually believe that?
Look at their history? Yeah and ignore the good stuff?
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
in Africa? The only knowledge that they have of condoms in some places is that they are bad, which was taught by the church, so they dont use condoms. And they get AIDS. and they die. Dont ignore the good stuff, but dont ignore the bad stuff either. and there is A LOT of that.
Look,
Answer the question, do you honestly believe that people who ignore Church teachings on sex outside marriage will obey Church teaching on condoms?
You don't know anything about Church history do you?
(Uh oh...hes gonna go on the Crusades/Inquisition rant)
you obviously know that rant, so i'll skip it. As for the thing on Africa, they think "sex is fun" and "condoms are bad" and "Sex without condoms is super fun". you figure it out. people ignore some church teachings and listen to others. everyone does that. And please, enlighten me on the great church history. Becasue honestly, i dont know what it could have possibly done to out weigh the horrors it has and is commiting.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
lol i am not a facist.
I never implied that you were
the reference to an atheist fascist was to show that religion is not the actual problem. People of any nature who want to impose their will on others are. They should be opposed, and the best way to oppose the religious nuts is by supporting moderate religion.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
and when i talk to religious people, i am completley polite.
oh, like this?
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
lol, therein lies the problem. Logic is the only thing that can defeat blind, stupid faith, but people have to be open to logic.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Watch some of the videos, like why religion is repulsive
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
And for the other thing, religion is a joke. If i believed in the literal truth of Star Wars, you would call me an idiot. but i'm not WRONG, am i? you cant PROVE that i'm wrong! sometimes with religion, you just gotta play a little harder, pull a few less punches, to make people open their eyes. you dont have to be a dick, just be honest.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
DUDE!!!! NO WAY!!! i met Zeus! He told me that he, Posiden and Jesus go bowling every Friday! But Jesus has a curfew because his dad wants him home before midnight. Zeus told me that the guys make fun of Jesus for still living with his dad, but Jesus trys to explain to them how he lives with himself, but its all too complicated. Zeus was chill.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
dont worry. I dont support fundamentalism,
it appears you support the way they interpret the bible:
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Dert: 13:1 says Take everything I say as fact, add nothing to it, and take nothing away.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
That passage means you cannot interpret the bible metaphorically.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
i personally believe that the old testement was SUPPOSED to be taken literally.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
and i think it is very wrong. I do change my views, so no, please dont compare me to fundamentalists who wont accept facts and will never change their opinion.
I'm not comparing you to the fundamentalist in that way, I am saying you support the same biblical interpretations that they do.
You claim that you know the one and only way that biblical passages can be known.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
But then what do you suppose we do about religion?
religion as a whole, little to nothing.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Let it keep growing unopposed until the world IS a theocracy?
you are conflating religion with people who use religion to force their will on others.
we can argue nit picky stuff, but on the whole, religion is pretty benign. It is people who do bad things.
As someone smart once said (as you may have noticed, exact quotes are not my strong point) "It takes religion to make good people to bad things," I whole heatedly support that statement.
Now, i never said that the bible has to be interpreted literally. Some things are literal, some metaphorical. But, what can we say is metaphorical? Is stoning people to death for breaking the Sabbath metaphorical? Sounds pretty literal to me. of course i dont agree with that punishment, but i believe that that statement was intended to be interpreted literally. Do you disagree? And dont see "i will leave it to the experts." what is YOUR opinion on that statement?
As for supporting religion as a whole, Sam Harris puts it A LOT better than i ever can, and you should read The End Of Faith if you havent already, but moderate religion is the environment that allows extremism and fundamentalism to thrive. It indirectly causes all the problems that we are experiencing with extremism. Is it directly harmful? Mostly not. Is it indirectly harmful? yes. yes it is.
I somewhat endorse Null's last post. But it won't get through to those of faith.
First and foremost, stonings and violent punishments of that sort are easily dismissed as historical segments of the Bible, or Jesus usurping the Old Testament's laws with new ones. None but fundamentalists hold to such laws anymore, so citing them has little averse affect on Christians. But that doesn't get to the heart of it. The fundamental disagreement is in the perceived source of the good and evil that religion does.
To a believer, the good is an extension of the religious beliefs themselves, and of God, while the evil is humanity's perversion of those ideals. To a non-believer, the good that religion does is entirely man-made. So in my opinion, for example, if you took away religion, you'd still have all the good religion does (and it does a lot in some places), because it is people that are responsible for it. People would simply find different outlets for it other than a religious community.
Whereas the bad that religion is responsible for is largely due to the nature of faith. Faith is blind by its very definition, and encourages belief without evidence, or even in the face of evidence. It is self-fulfilling in that sense. And the deeper the faith, the better. Which is where fundamentalism comes in. So yes, an endorsement of faith by the rational majority does encourage fundamentalism to a large extent in the minority that it exists in (or majority in some parts of the world), because the advocation of faith in and of itself, in any form or degree, breeds such outcomes.
So when someone says "religion does more evil than good" it must be prefaced with this sort of explanation. Because on the surface, that statement is false. Religion is a strong force for good in the world. But if you remove it, the large portion of the good would remain, because it is human-driven, while it would eliminate the beliefs and practices that lead to the negative aspects of religion. It may be trite to say something like "there are no atheist suicide bombers, nor will there ever be," but it is a crude way of showing a valid point.