Big deal, Cap has caught his shield when it was thrown by the Hulk, who by the way is far far far stronger than Van but you don't see me using that in a debate about Cap's strength. Mainly because there is no way to prove how hard he threw it.
BTW, Daredevil casually threw that 400lb weight across a room, he's also flipped a limo that had like 4 people in it.
Originally posted by namorsubby
just so you know. vandal savage is a superhuman immortal with excellent combat skills and a millenia of experience.. and [b]heck no, cap shields isn't comparable to him tossing an engine.not close. [/B]
Vandal savage is not known to always have superhuman strength or other physical attributes. Its fluctuated over the years. Yea he has the years of exp, but it can only take him so far in combat. When Savage tossed the engine, WC was no more than 3 ft away from him. It had no type of travel velocity, nor was it a big engine. not only was Cap further away from DD when he threw the shield, but Cap shild > the engine Savage threw.
Also, in the fight you mention where Savage threw the engine, not only did WC have help, but he beat Savage via plot device which was a friggin bus.
Originally posted by namorsubby
1. there's no excuse for any human surviving the slightest tap from namor, point blank period. it has nothing to do with me dimissing anything. if you see nothing wrong with that then there's no reason to debate with you at all.
Lol man. I didn't say I think it is acceptable for DD to withstand Namor's blows. I said it is on panel and peak humans regularly 'roll' etc with high powered blows. I only brought up the idea of DD surviving superhuman attacks because you kept on bringing up WC surviving assaults by Killer Wasp and Vandal. Sucks doesn't it?
Originally posted by Silent Masterhave you ever tried blocking something that you can lift. or blocking something that you can throw? not nearly the same.
Big deal, Cap has caught his shield when it was thrown by the Hulk, who by the way is far far far stronger than Van but you don't see me using that in a debate about Cap's strength. Mainly because there is no way to prove how hard he threw it.BTW, Daredevil casually threw that 400lb weight across a room, he's also flipped a limo that had like 4 people in it.
take a guy who can lift 400lbs and then have something superhuman toss it at him. you think he'll easily block it? no, he'll be killed.same for being able to throw it yourself. think of the heaviest thing you can throw, and then think of what would happened if it was thrown at you.........don't even consider the it being thrown by something superhuman, just that. chances are, there's no way in helll you can block it. superior feat.
vandal is stronger than captain america. more durable too. he threw an engine, cap threw a shield. how can you sit here and tell me that is the lesser feat?
BTW, i wasn't using that feat to suggest WC could take vandal savage. savage could take WC and DD.
Originally posted by Warrior18don't act like it's comparable.
Lol man. I didn't say I think it is acceptable for DD to withstand Namor's blows. I said it is on panel and peak humans regularly 'roll' etc with high powered blows. I only brought up the idea of DD surviving superhuman attacks because you kept on bringing up WC surviving assaults by Killer Wasp and Vandal. Sucks doesn't it?
if i ever see WC withstand blowns from namor or any other 100 class character for that matter, i'd sure as hell gripe too.it's nonsense.
they know as much as you do concerning wildcat. you're point?
you guys started out from the very beginning saying DD wins, and you knew nothing about WC. that right there tells me you had some other motive for voting the way you did. if you did that in the first place how do you expect me to sway you afterwards?
wildcat rules
Originally posted by Warrior18If you read the encyclopedia of the DC universe, it tells you that Wildcat is also a master of kick boxing, krav maga, hapkido, copoeira and other forms and is the worlds best boxer.
1: Er it is far behind someone who blocks bullets.2: No it doesn't. He swung the weight round like a weapon with ease then threw it fast with ease.WC only blocked an engine thrown at him. We don't even know how long he held it up for. I personally think he just parried it.Check all the feats there are others. DD has much better and more numerous feats.
3. These are comics my friend. Peak humans skilled at fighting can roll with blows etc to limit the damage significantly. As usual you dismiss everything on panel as PIS or whatever.
4. He is an excellent boxer. That's it. May I ask where it says he has mastered several other martial arts?
5. The gulf in speed between many superhumans and very fast peak humans is small. Also DD is a much better fighter than Vandal ergo he would be harder to hit in that sense. Yes I don't know much about Vandal. I have no idea how fast he is. But I would guess he is not that much faster than peak humans if at all. Another poster seemed to even doubt his superhuman label.
Re: wildcat rules
Originally posted by kenobiI love both characters though and I think that daredevil is more agile. It would be very close. Wildcat is by FAR DC's most underrated fighter. He should be in the top 5.
If you read the encyclopedia of the DC universe, it tells you that Wildcat is also a master of kick boxing, krav maga, hapkido, copoeira and other forms and is the worlds best boxer.
Originally posted by Silent Masteryou said he was stronger too, remember?
Yea...our motive is that DD is faster, more agile and more skilled.
my point is how can you vote against a character while knowing nothing of him?
BTW, i've got quite a few scans so far. started on the WC respect thread today. i'll post what i have tommorrow
oh, and warrior18, that feat of batman Koing WC was not true.it's from batman/wildcat #3. he did not Ko wildcat with that hit. in fact, wildcat was completely fine afterwards.i think his performance in his bat fights alone constitute a win for WC. all DD has on batman is slightly better agility/speed.
so that's 2 stalemates with an edge to WC against batman.
Originally posted by namorsubby
they know as much as you do concerning wildcat. you're point?you guys started out from the very beginning saying DD wins, and you knew nothing about WC. that right there tells me you had some other motive for voting the way you did. if you did that in the first place how do you expect me to sway you afterwards?
No, I knew a bit about WC's physical stats and his back-story. Chill out, I had a basic knowledge of WC. I based my opinion on this and on DD's on panel feats. Since you are arguing for WC (and know more about him) the onus was was on you to provide evidence in his favour,which apart from some ambiguous engine feat, you haven't done.
Originally posted by namorsubby
i'm doing it now with my citing of feats through issue number, rather than scans.scans will be in abundance shortly though(like today), be assured.
I'm not taking issue with lack of scans per say. Nothing wrong with listing feats so long as they are on a par with or greater than DDs. I myself don't own a scanner so will find myself in the same boat as you.
I eagerly await them. 🙂
there's a few alrighty. about 70 something scans so far. including k-m's contribution.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495763
edit:
a few of his feats already(i'm not near completion yet). he's beaten a mind-controlled hawkman and endured his mace while evading his close range machine fire. he's beaten solomon grundy. he's beaten most of the justice society single handily.
he seems to be pretty formmiddable, does he not? 🙂
Re: wildcat rules
Originally posted by kenobi
If you read the encyclopedia of the DC universe, it tells you that Wildcat is also a master of kick boxing, krav maga, hapkido, copoeira and other forms and is the worlds best boxer.
Not sure which DC Encyclopedia you have, but the one i have says and i quote "Master of hand-to-hand combat, especially boxing; slowed aging (like other JSA members)"
I have the DC Encyclopedia hardcover (black). I believe it came out in 2004. Its says nothing about WC being a master at the other styles you mentioned.