Originally posted by Sado22
@Darkstorm: nice post, man. reminds of the good old days where darko was always the man to rise to the occassion.
Well, I guess it was simply time for me to step back a little away from the debates and anylise what was happening to the boards... It really is only about peoples oppinions really... Thats why it's a debating forum..
Originally posted by Sado22
.......i take it all back, a$$hole 😐
crybaby
Originally posted by Sado22
that's a good point. but, suggesting that using the same fighting style without making any revolutionary changes to it is better than upgrading your style and mixing it up with several styles via practical training is a debatable suggestion. i know what you're saying but i'm saying its arguable. for the simple reason that a fighter who has always fought in karate may be at a disadvantage against someone who has learnt karate, boxing, kung fu and ground fighting. whether he may win is arguable.
What I mean by that is, Ryu is every bit as adaptable, his experience from combat across the globe means he knows how to utilise his fighting style against so many different types of combat forms... In a way, it means he's perfecting his fighting art down to a science, so if your asking me does that mean I think having one martial art is better than having many, then yes, IF you have trained well enough in that one to make it effective against whatever your opponent can throw at you.
Remember, Quality, not quantity. A good way to summarise the situation would be to draw a comparison, If your familiar with the Battle of Hu Lao Gate from the Romance of the 3 kingdoms novel, or the Dynasty warriors games, then you'll know who I'm talking about right away. Anyways, there was a warrior by the name of Lu Bu, who charged out of the Gate at an entire army alone, with nothing but his Halberd (The Lunar Spear), and his steed, Red hare. That night, he single handedly obliterated ofer 1,000 men alone, and was slaying officers of considerable power and experience. He was about to slay one of the leaders (Gongsun Zan) when Zhang Fei arrived to rescue him, Zhang Fei being one of the 3 brothers (And later counted amongst one of the 5 tiger generals of Shu) is a formidable warrior himself, but Lu bu was proving to be unstoppable, Guan Yu (Also one of the 3 brothers, honored as a God of War, and the leader of the 5 tiger generals) joined the fray to aid Zhang Fei. Still Lu Bu didn't faulter... and was continuing to puch the alliance back alone, it wasnt until Liu Bei the 3rd brother (And the future king of Shu. finally ade it to the battle ground and joined his brothers that Lu Bu was finally forced to withdraw.
The moral of tht description is that numbers don't matter, only your skills with those numbers.
And again, I stress, Terry is by no means unskilled, but his experience and adaption after adaption of the Hakkyokuseiken style may lead to his defeat at the hands of a more structured fighting style... sometimes overadapting a style can destroy it's usefulness, fighting isn't like running a computer. It needs to be balanced.
Originally posted by Sado22
terry's also more experienced, has had a tougher life and has fought more often. also, he while ryu was dojo dorking for the most part of it, terry got an "feild training" and experience which IMO surpasses what ryu did by the same logic that simulation flight is not better than actually flying a plane.
Ah, but as I said before, Ryu's so-called "Dojo Dorking" is actually training, ahve yopu ever heard the term Why are trained fighters more skilled and have better basics than those who are self taught?", I'll tell you, people who are untrained have no chance against those who have been trained properly, this is why most security guards are no match for professional soldiers in combat, soldiers have got better training.
Yes, Terry may have more in-fighting experience, but thenumber of styles South Town would have for him to test his might on (Short of the Upper Echelons perhaps) would be very limited in comparison to what Ryu fought round the globe anyways during the years after he finished training with Gouken... Everything Terry fought before facing Geese would have been centered around Southtown... There's only so much one city (No matter how violent/tough/criminally run) can offer a fighter in terms of versatility, in comparison to the entire planet....
Originally posted by Sado22
ditto. a little correction though: by the time terry actually faced geese he had outgrown a need for revenge and it was mainly just the need to fight a strong warrior.
A major driving factor in Terry's early develiopment (Post Jeff Death) was indeed vengence, but by the time he had grown enough to be able to enact on it, I suppose it morphed more into a sence of justice rather than vengence, but even so, yould you say that during that first fight, Terry idn't enjoy beating the living $h!t out of Geese before blasting him off the tower? I think he would... then hate himself for it later. 😆
What I mean by that is, Ryu is every bit as adaptable, his experience from combat across the globe means he knows how to utilise his fighting style against so many different types of combat forms... In a way, it means he's perfecting his fighting art down to a science, so if your asking me does that mean I think having one martial art is better than having many, then yes, IF you have trained well enough in that one to make it effective against whatever your opponent can throw at you.Remember, Quality, not quantity. A good way to summarise the situation would be to draw a comparison, If your familiar with the Battle of Hu Lao Gate from the Romance of the 3 kingdoms novel, or the Dynasty warriors games, then you'll know who I'm talking about right away. Anyways, there was a warrior by the name of Lu Bu, who charged out of the Gate at an entire army alone, with nothing but his Halberd (The Lunar Spear), and his steed, Red hare. That night, he single handedly obliterated ofer 1,000 men alone, and was slaying officers of considerable power and experience. He was about to slay one of the leaders (Gongsun Zan) when Zhang Fei arrived to rescue him, Zhang Fei being one of the 3 brothers (And later counted amongst one of the 5 tiger generals of Shu) is a formidable warrior himself, but Lu bu was proving to be unstoppable, Guan Yu (Also one of the 3 brothers, honored as a God of War, and the leader of the 5 tiger generals) joined the fray to aid Zhang Fei. Still Lu Bu didn't faulter... and was continuing to puch the alliance back alone, it wasnt until Liu Bei the 3rd brother (And the future king of Shu. finally ade it to the battle ground and joined his brothers that Lu Bu was finally forced to withdraw.
The moral of tht description is that numbers don't matter, only your skills with those numbers.
And again, I stress, Terry is by no means unskilled, but his experience and adaption after adaption of the Hakkyokuseiken style may lead to his defeat at the hands of a more structured fighting style... sometimes overadapting a style can destroy it's usefulness, fighting isn't like running a computer. It needs to be balanced.
A major driving factor in Terry's early develiopment (Post Jeff Death) was indeed vengence, but by the time he had grown enough to be able to enact on it, I suppose it morphed more into a sence of justice rather than vengence, but even so, yould you say that during that first fight, Terry idn't enjoy beating the living $h!t out of Geese before blasting him off the tower? I think he would... then hate himself for it later.
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
agreed. what i was saying is that its debatable which means holding either opinion is reasonable. terry has been incorporating other styles and is more variable and has had more "field training" but it doesn't gaurantee a win over ryu, the same way the fact that ryu's been training in one art doesn't gaurantee a win over terry. in the end all it boils down to is which warrior has more heart and will to fight. going by both their careers fighting spirit is what both Terry and ryu are all about that.
Then we agree there 😛 I guess in the very truest sence it would boil down to luck, and a little bit of who wants it more on the day (Geeze that sounds wird when I say it... Double ententendre et al... 😘 ) Although the same could be said for just about anyone in Fighting games, including Kyo and Iori... Although poersonally, I think Ryu would lose one on one against Iori slightly, he'd do just as well against Kyo as he does against Terry... or Ryo for that matter.
Originally posted by Sado22
true. after all, as far as terry was conscerned he did "kill" geese. it was only later that he found out that Geese lived.~Sado
2 agreements? wow, thats a first. 💃
Though many people have got it pegged that Ryu can sh!tstomp Terry anyday of the week and that's what pisses me off.
If you look at what I said way before, I said it could be a tie between these two. While Terry was self taught, he did have teachings from Jeff then after his death, Tung Fu Rue taught him. Then KOF was was invented to bring in all skilled fighters from around the globe so it's not like Terry was just fighting regulars in Southtown.
Other than that I can agree somewhat.
Originally posted by P-Geyser
Though many people have got it pegged that Ryu can sh!tstomp Terry anyday of the week and that's what pisses me off.If you look at what I said way before, I said it could be a tie between these two. While Terry was self taught, he did have teachings from Jeff then after his death, Tung Fu Rue taught him. Then KOF was was invented to bring in all skilled fighters from around the globe so it's not like Terry was just fighting regulars in Southtown.
Other than that I can agree somewhat.
Just remember what I told you a few weeks ago, Street Fighter, like King of Fighters is a very heavy upper echelon fighting game, it's everywhere, and the characters that are in it, will also be extremely popular with the general public, of course cour going to experience alit of Biased oppinions from people (Normally reguardless of what they may say to the contrary). It takes pushing Sh!t up hill to carying a boulder up a mountain.
But thats the challenge, if you burn yourself out getting angrier and angrier with other peoples oppinions, then this place becomes a sad lonely place, you only view it to see what happens next... and beleive me, thats not a fun way to experience KMC, or any debating forum for that matter...
The techings he got fro Tun Fu Rue where even more limited than what he got from Jeff... What, a few weeks?... Thats not even enough to get started... he may have gotten some of Tun's principals though, which is always a bonus.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
DSZ, you seem to be under the impression that feats don't matter, when they do.Okay, we get it, during his life Terry picked up alot of skill from his various fights, and from Jeff.
But what can he do with that skill?
I thought you might say that...
Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does? are they more important than the debate itself? Of course not, Comparing feats is fine, but it's far from being the be-all-end-all of the debate. the moment a debate becomes a featwar, it loses everything that makes it a great debate. if you read my first post, you'll see my oppinion of a purely featwar debate.
Then we agree there I guess in the very truest sence it would boil down to luck, and a little bit of who wants it more on the day (Geeze that sounds wird when I say it... Double ententendre et al... ) Although the same could be said for just about anyone in Fighting games, including Kyo and Iori... Although poersonally, I think Ryu would lose one on one against Iori slightly, he'd do just as well against Kyo as he does against Terry... or Ryo for that matter.
2 agreements? wow, thats a first.
Okay, we get it, during his life Terry picked up alot of skill from his various fights, and from Jeff. But what can he do with that skill?
speed feat:
-is actually famos for his "dizzying speed" (FF fliers)
-blurring out of vision with some moves (buster wolf, shining knuckle)
skill feat:
-taking out entire platoon of heavily armed troops in KoF2000 without breaking a sweat and actually enjoying himself (also a speed feat).
endurance feat:
-socking a blow that smacked him 20ft back (and would've been more) from Ryo, crashes into a steel pole that bends out of shape entirely, only to grin and shrug it off. it just made him get serious.
-socking and evenenly trading blows with a metahuman (grant)
-getting smacked through walls and all over the place by Krauser (FFRBS intro) and just getting serious.
as far as i'm concerned, these feats place Terry above Ryu but thats IMO. at the very least, we are shown that its everything but a shitestomp and that Terry DOES have feats, regardless of how much his detractors say otherwise.
~Sado
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroFeats ARE what the character does DSZ. What do you suggest we take into account in debates if not feats DSZ?
I thought you might say that...Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does? are they more important than the debate itself? Of course not, Comparing feats is fine, but it's far from being the be-all-end-all of the debate. the moment a debate becomes a featwar, it loses everything that makes it a great debate. if you read my first post, you'll see my oppinion of a purely featwar debate.
Originally posted by Sado22The scar could have completely healed all around except in that area cuz it's the same in my knee injury. I shattered my knee cap in foot ball and I had an 8 inch staple job that turned into a 3inch scar. That's a perfect representation of what happened. UDON has officially stated that "the SF and DS back stories are just retellings of stories that already happened but were never seen". (Paraphrase)
MOW: going from the official representations that aint possible cuz Sagat's scar is only from his abs to his chest. not to his back. we can't use that.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroFeats are the most important part of a debate, they show what the character is capable of.
I thought you might say that...Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does? are they more important than the debate itself? Of course not, Comparing feats is fine, but it's far from being the be-all-end-all of the debate. the moment a debate becomes a featwar, it loses everything that makes it a great debate. if you read my first post, you'll see my oppinion of a purely featwar debate.
Wit out a stranght feat how will we know how strong a character is?
Wit out a speed feat how will we know how fast a character is?
Wit out an endurance feat how will we know how much the character can endure?
If a characters has many feats and the person he is fightin has none, there is no chance of "a great debate". You need feats, if not those at least special powers. A fighting debate wit fictional characters is a "featwar".
The scar could have completely healed all around except in that area cuz it's the same in my knee injury. I shattered my knee cap in foot ball and I had an 8 inch staple job that turned into a 3inch scar. That's a perfect representation of what happened. UDON has officially stated that "the SF and DS back stories are just retellings of stories that already happened but were never seen". (Paraphrase)
Featwars only look at single spects of a character is all, people get so caught up in a single feat that it detracts from the rest of the debate.
For example, Akuma's island busting, yes, a super-huge strength feat though it is, does that win him almost every debate he is involved in here? I dare say it is...
And that detracts from his other skills and abilities, not to mention that said feats can be misleading, for example, The three Treasures taking down Orochi.
Now, my beef here is that, while Orochi is immortal and massively strong, he has no confirmed feats of his own... Yet we reguard him as a highly vaunted opponent... The very fact that the 3 owned him in the end is used as a feat, but we never know how they did it, this is all in contrast to what we know about their skills and powers anyway...
Featwars.... = illogical and circular nonsense... But feats + character information + skill information = good stuff.