What digi said pretty much summed it up the way i feel as well.
We're like a miniority really, The only people they care about is and we've all been there ourselves the 11-18 range who will buy anything they put out with no complaint. We where all in that same boat also at one point.
The good thing is in the past decade everythings been brought out in graphic novels and hardcovers now so you can pick and mix so much easier now for your collection instead of buying a series weekly and just hoping for the best that will be a good story at the end of the arc like a recent example for me = Batman RIP lol.
Like now instead of when i was a kid weekly saving and getting my x-men issues and collecting events like the Phalanax, days of future past, AOA, Onslaught etc.
I can get them without caring about comic contiunity anymore, Plus reviews on whether it's good or not before i even buy it. Like the first Ultimate books 1 and 2 old characters and an idea in a new universe.
i don't even collect any other ultimate universe books, i found out about on the net, heard all the praise and got my copies and loved them.
The internet as well is good and getting better all the time to read comics on and keep digital comics.
Then read up on here about how bad Ulitmates 3 was and seen the scans on the net for myself so will avoid it at all costs.
It's like if they did change batman, superman and people didn't like it they will have plenty of old stories and other titles to collect and read and they can keep track on the net about the new arcs and save there money. It doesn't hamper your enjoyment as a comic fan now thankfully like i missed whedon's xmen run but have bought them on.
Originally posted by GGSyou sound like a big geek 😐
What digi said pretty much summed it up the way i feel as well.We're like a miniority really, The only people they care about is and we've all been there ourselves the 11-18 range who will buy anything they put out with no complaint. We where all in that same boat also at one point.
The good thing is in the past decade everythings been brought out in graphic novels and hardcovers now so you can pick and mix so much easier now for your collection instead of buying a series weekly and just hoping for the best that will be a good story at the end of the arc like a recent example for me = Batman RIP lol.
Like now instead of when i was a kid weekly saving and getting my x-men issues and collecting events like the Phalanax, days of future past, AOA, Onslaught etc.
I can get them without caring about comic contiunity anymore, Plus reviews on whether it's good or not before i even buy it. Like the first Ultimate books 1 and 2 old characters and an idea in a new universe.
i don't even collect any other ultimate universe books, i found out about on the net, heard all the praise and got my copies and loved them.
The internet as well is good and getting better all the time to read comics on and keep digital comics.Then read up on here about how bad Ulitmates 3 was and seen the scans on the net for myself so will avoid it at all costs.
It's like if they did change batman, superman and people didn't like it they will have plenty of old stories and other titles to collect and read and they can keep track on the net about the new arcs and save there money. It doesn't hamper your enjoyment as a comic fan now thankfully like i missed whedon's xmen run but have bought them on.
Originally posted by Starscream MI love that you accuse someone of being a geek considering this is a comic book forum. ermm
you sound like a big geek 😐
I consider myself a dork personally but, potato patato. 🙄
Originally posted by Raoul
no offence, but im really getting the impression that you're just saying you don't like clark, so you want him replaced by someone, who in your eyes is younger and cooler. the same with hal and kyle.
I love how you try and just resort back to the disagreements we have of characterization and use my own well know personal distaste for a character to say this isn't about what I opened the thread for.
If you read the opening post I never even made mention of Kon El to start with. It was about Freddy being basically knocked back to Captain Marvel Jr after doing such a good job in Trials of becoming the new Mightiest Mortal and taking the lead under the name Shazam.
Which bring to question, how's he going to tell the people he's helping his name? 😕
But I digress.
True I did make mention of the idea of Connor eventually replacing Clark but only as part of my examples of things in the DC universe needing to evolve, change and grow. I also made mention of Dick becoming Bruce and I absolutely love Bruce. As I do Wally and I am fine with Diana as WW but I thing they could all use change. Don't just milk them dry until you have to realise they've been old and stale for years when we can read new and different stories about how things effect different characters in that position differently and how they have completely different issues to face.
If Connor ever did replace Clark then it wouldn't be about him dealing with being the last of his kind and the only one on Earth with that power anymore but dealing with things like the fact that he's the direct descendant of Earth's greatest hero and his worst enemy. And trying to be the lead in the world of Superheroes and proving he's more that just a replacement for the original as well as dealing with his darker side that Luther passed on to him. As Dick's wouldn't constantly be about his complete determination and dedication to "The Mission" but his trying to prove to the world he's not Batman and he's his own man and that you don't have to be so dark and secluded to help save a city so corrupt. Bruce's dark loner style isn't the only way that can work. While still trying to honor the memory of the man who was The Dark Knight! So see new ideas right there.
And yes I'm sure you could come up with new stories off the top of your head. Hell we all could. I'm not saying all of them would be that great but they'd still be new and the people at DC can definitely can to. But this thread isn't about their ability to come up with something new and different but rather their fear to use the new and different ideas they can come up with. They've been telling the same stories for decades and its time to pass the torches and see the DC universe through different characters eyes. Let the next generation come into the very roles they were created to one day fill instead of just holding them back and down where they are for all eternity.
Otherwise why even bother creating them? 😬
Originally posted by Entity
I love that you accuse someone of being a geek considering this is a comic book forum. ermmI consider myself a dork personally but, potato patato. 🙄
I love how you try and just resort back to the disagreements we have of characterization and use my own well know personal distaste for a character to say this isn't about what I opened the thread for.
If you read the opening post I never even made mention of Kon El to start with. It was about Freddy being basically knocked back to Captain Marvel Jr after doing such a good job in Trials of becoming the new Mightiest Mortal and taking the lead under the name Shazam.
Which bring to question, how's he going to tell the people he's helping his name? 😕
But I digress.True I did make mention of the idea of Connor eventually replacing Clark but only as part of my examples of things in the DC universe needing to evolve, change and grow. I also made mention of Dick becoming Bruce and I absolutely love Bruce. As I do Wally and I am fine with Diana as WW but I thing they could all use change. Don't just milk them dry until you have to realise they've been old and stale for years when we can read new and different stories about how things effect different characters in that position differently and how they have completely different issues to face.
If Connor ever did replace Clark then it wouldn't be about him dealing with being the last of his kind and the only one on Earth with that power anymore but dealing with things like the fact that he's the direct descendant of Earth's greatest hero and his worst enemy. And trying to be the lead in the world of Superheroes and proving he's more that just a replacement for the original as well as dealing with his darker side that Luther passed on to him. As Dick's wouldn't constantly be about his complete determination and dedication to "The Mission" but his trying to prove to the world he's not Batman and he's his own man and that you don't have to be so dark and secluded to help save a city so corrupt. Bruce's dark loner style isn't the only way that can work. While still trying to honor the memory of the man who was The Dark Knight! So see new ideas right there.
And yes I'm sure you could come up with new stories off the top of your head. Hell we all could. I'm not saying all of them would be that great but they'd still be new and the people at DC can definitely can to. But this thread isn't about their ability to come up with something new and different but rather their fear to use the new and different ideas they can come up with. They've been telling the same stories for decades and its time to pass the torches and see the DC universe through different characters eyes. Let the next generation come into the very roles they were created to one day fill instead of just holding them back and down where they are for all eternity.
Otherwise why even bother creating them? 😬
superboy wasnt created to replace superman, just like robin wasn't created to replace batman... they're sidekicks, younger versions... there's nothing saying they should or shouldn't replace said heroes...
i guess we just disagree on the rest...
and i really, really disagree with you singling out DC, when marvel is just as bad, if not worse...
Originally posted by Raoul
superboy wasnt created to replace superman, just like robin wasn't created to replace batman... they're sidekicks, younger versions... there's nothing saying they should or shouldn't replace said heroes...i guess we just disagree on the rest...
and i really, really disagree with you singling out DC, when marvel is just as bad, if not worse...
And as for Bruce, if the Robin's haven't been there to one take take on the mantle then why does DC keep trying to tell all these stories of Batman being replaced only to back out? Althou, agreeingly mostly because most of them suck. Az as Batman, wtf. 🙄
While I'll agree Marvel has it's problems with it, please please please try and show me how Marvel is worse or even really just as bad as DC.
I personally completely disagree that it's just as bad but I could at least begin to understand someones opinion on that. But it sure as hell isn't even close to worse!
Originally posted by Entity
Funny considering the death of superman and region of Supermen arc I thought that was EXACTLY why Kon-El was created? 😕And as for Bruce, if the Robin's haven't been there to one take take on the mantle then why does DC keep trying to tell all these stories of Batman being replaced only to back out? Althou, agreeingly mostly because most of them suck. Az as Batman, wtf. 🙄
While I'll agree Marvel has it's problems with it, please please please try and show me how Marvel is worse or even really just as bad as DC.
I personally completely disagree that it's just as bad but I could at least begin to understand someones opinion on that. But it sure as hell isn't even close to worse!
you know what? fine. i know it isn't you personally, but there is a serious anti-dc sentiment on this forum.
people don't like dc? fine, but i am sick of tired of fvckwits singling it out like its some archaic, old fashioned company...
i don't even like dc bar maybe half a dozen characters, but i just can't stand people picking on something that doesnt deserve it...
people want to know how marvel is afraid of change the way DC is? fine.
the x-men. look at uncanny or astonishing. how many of the main characters have been around since after the 80s? the comics are still about the likes of cyclops, beast, colossus, nightcrawler, storm, logan...
spider-man just got the biggest f*cking retcon ever. it might as well be the 60s again.
wolverine is back to his 80s levels for all intents and purposes.
the inhumans, the avengers, the hulk, silver surfer, galactus and the heralds. they've all changed very little since their inceptions.
what, marvel spends a couple of years changing things and suddenly they're so much better?
no.
look at wwh. he goes off to a planet, comes back, fights a bit, and is back to his big green smashing self.
thor. he has odin's power. that's development. they didn't bring in a new thor.
i am sick and tired of listening to people whine and moan about didio (who is a tard at the best of times) and dc when they're too busy riding quesada's nuts to see how bad marvel can be.
and for anyone who says 'just go back and read the 40 years of adventures they had'
piss off. seriously.
i wasn't alive in the 70s, and i spent my youngest years in the 80s. i've already read the back catalogues of the avengers, and the x-men, and superman. and one thing they all have in common? bar the odd really good arc, they are camp as hell. they are so full of shit at times that it isn't funny.
i'm alive today. this is the world i grew up in. this is the world and the society i live in. this is the world i want to see the characters i love live in, and how they see it through their eyes.
so people want to bring in new characters, go ahead. but there is nothing wrong with the people who are there in the comics right now. once they have the right writers behind them, they are as good as anything out there...
as i said, entity, i'm not pinning you with any blame, this is more of a general vent.
Originally posted by RaoulThor took Odin's place, Tony's the head of shield and now the world hates him. Bucky's become Cap.
not what i meant... 🙁marvel changed its world, not its characters to the extent that they had to replace the key ones...
tony is still iron man, thor is still thor, etc...
Villain's have become the worlds current top heroic team.
The mutants have become and endangered species and most of the Xmen have turned on Xavier including your fav Scott his prise pupil.
The Hulk's changed dramatically as well as becoming replaced by a Red villain. I never really saw the Hulk as a "Hero" anyway. More of a victim turned into a monster. Now the new Hulk replacing him is a Real Villain.
The Avengers got turned upside down and backwards.
Wanda went nuts, Pietro turned what seems to me darker than his father even was.
Strange isn't even the Sorcerer Supreme anymore.
Spidey got ****ed over major by Quesada so completely not arguing there. I'm hardly riding his nuts. I hate that bastard for what he did to my favorite hero after all this recent progression with The Other, Civil War and New Avengers.
but the point is in general Marvel's never been as bad as DC as keeping with the status quo and now is in general taking steps to improve even the problems they did have with it.
Where as DC decided to reboot all of the entire universe to keep the same old characters young and start from scratch all over again.
Originally posted by -V-
Steve Rogers is still Captain America. ermm
i meant in the larger sense.
Originally posted by Entity
Thor took Odin's place, Tony's the head of shield and now the world hates him. Bucky's become Cap.Villain's have become the worlds current top heroic team.
The mutants have become and endangered species and most of the Xmen have turned on Xavier including your fav Scott his prise pupil.
The Hulk's changed dramatically as well as becoming replaced by a Red villain. I never really saw the Hulk as a "Hero" anyway. More of a victim turned into a monster. Now the new Hulk replacing him is a Real Villain.
The Avengers got turned upside down and backwards.
Wanda went nuts, Pietro turned what seems to me darker than his father even was.
Strange isn't even the Sorcerer Supreme anymore.
Spidey got ****ed over major by Quesada so completely not arguing there. I'm hardly riding his nuts. I hate that bastard for what he did to my favorite hero after all this recent progression with The Other, Civil War and New Avengers.
but the point is in general Marvel's never been as bad as DC as keeping with the status quo and now is in general taking steps to improve even the problems they did have with it.
Where as DC decided to reboot all of the entire universe to keep the same old characters young and start from scratch all over again.
i wasn't talking about you specifically.
though you actually proved my point for me, imo.
the x-men didn't change, their circumstances and relationships did. cyclops is still scott summers.
cap, granted.
tony stark is till iron man, whether he's head of shield or not.
hulk is still hulk, regardless of red hulk's existence.
thor is still thor. even with his new powers.
sorcerer supreme or not, its still steven strange.
see? they changed the world these characters lived in, but the characters themselves are still largely the same people. that's progression. it doesn't neccessarily mean changing the actual character or replacing them. all you need is a good writer.
dc havent rebooted the universe since the 80s. IC was a change, not a reboot. and plenty of marvel characters could do with one, imo...
Originally posted by Raoul
i meant in the larger sense.i wasn't talking about you specifically.
though you actually proved my point for me, imo.
the x-men didn't change, their circumstances and relationships did. cyclops is still scott summers.
cap, granted.
tony stark is till iron man, whether he's head of shield or not.
hulk is still hulk, regardless of red hulk's existence.
thor is still thor. even with his new powers.
sorcerer supreme or not, its still steven strange.
see? they changed the world these characters lived in, but the characters themselves are still largely the same people. that's progression. it doesn't neccessarily mean changing the actual character or replacing them. all you need is a good writer.
dc havent rebooted the universe since the 80s. IC was a change, not a reboot. and plenty of marvel characters could do with one, imo...
In the larger sense? I don't think you can get much larger than Captain America.
I think that Marvel's just been alot smarter about the way they've gone about their business in the past few years, whilst they may not have actually progressed as much as many think; they've made it seem like they have.
That's all that matters really.
NO REBOOTS ARE NEEDED, that's what got DC into the problem they're in at the moment.
I personally believe that the little changes Marvel have made (Tony Stark becoming head of SHIELD, The Initiative, Thunderbolts) have changed many characters for the better, you don't need to have a reality-shattering event to change your characters (as OMD proved).
Originally posted by -V-
In the larger sense? I don't think you can get much larger than Captain America.I think that Marvel's just been alot smarter about the way they've gone about their business in the past few years, whilst they may not have actually progressed as much as many think; they've made it seem like they have.
That's all that matters really.
[b]NO REBOOTS ARE NEEDED
, that's what got DC into the problem they're in at the moment.I personally believe that the little changes Marvel have made (Tony Stark becoming head of SHIELD, The Initiative, Thunderbolts) have changed many characters for the better, you don't need to have a reality-shattering event to change your characters (as OMD proved). [/B]
😂
i meant the world of marvel, as in, things change, laws change, but the people are still the people. and does anyone honestly think steve won't be back?
therein lies the problem, imo...
edit: missed the bit about reboots. i wasnt suggesting they have a COIE. i was talking like, as you said, and OMD type thing... something done subtly and for the benefit of the character that needs it...