Originally posted by Warrior18
Crossovers..............Based on their respective strength feats he would.
Apparently JLA/Avengers is canon. 😐
Maybe, maybe not. Recently hes beaten Tiger Shark and fought him underwater. Stalemated Kraven The Hunter whos beaten Black Panther and overpowered Stu Clark in his exoskeleton. Stu Clark has gone h2h with Hercules and stunned him....
Still.........
I can't comment on those feats because I have not seen them. However Bat's has a very impressive and consistent history of raw power/lifting feats. Frank is no way as strong plus the two are chained together here.
Clearly Stu is inconsistent as hell. Frank has no business overpowering anyone who can apparently generate enough force to stun Hercules in H2H.
Originally posted by Warrior18
Still.........I can't comment on those feats because I have not seen them. However Bat's has a very impressive and consistent history of raw power/lifting feats. Frank is no way as strong plus the two are chained together here.
I dont know about that when DD and Frank fight, Frank looks like the stronger opponent.
Originally posted by Warrior18
Clearly Stu is inconsistent as hell. Frank has no business overpowering anyone who can apparently generate enough force to stun Hercules in H2H.
Stu was significanttly weaker than Hercules he stunned him because he was a skilled brawler and his suit was extra hard. Thats why Luke Cage can stun stronger opponents.
Frank overpowered him breifly because he was faster than him and his suit doesnt weigh that much.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman vs. Punisher. No weapons, no prep, pure hand to to hand to combat, and to even the score a bit Batman and Punisher are hand-cuffed together (Bruce's right arm cuffed to Frank's left). I think this scenario is should play on Frank's strengths (strength and durability) and limit Batman's (skill and speed). Who wins?
the handcuffs give frank a lot more of a chance than before, but as bada said:
Originally posted by Badabing
Batman....but he pays for it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont know about that when DD and Frank fight, Frank looks like the stronger opponent.Frank overpowered him breifly because he was faster than him and his suit doesnt weigh that much.
1.No offence but I think you are interpreting those scans far too liberally in favour of Frank. As with Batman DD has far more impressive strength feats than Frank.
2.Precisely. He used his cunning, skill, speed etc. It was not really a strength feat. He can't do the same here (not that he could anyway against Bats) because he is chained up.
Batman is one of the strongest non-superhumans in all of comicdom.The same can't be said of Frank.
Batman is stronger than Frank in my opinion (He has broken metal chains, ripped through metal, ripped car doors of their hinges etc.), by a fair bit I might add. He is peak human and a lot of his feat's shown it.
Batman is also faster etc. and has all the physical advantages.
Either way, with his fighting skill, Bruce would wreck Frank even in this situation no doubt.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Seeing as he has taken blows from people far stronger than Batman. His damage soak is phenomenal. I don't have enough info on both of their pure strenght to gauge who is actually physically stronger.
eer
Umm what?
Batman has been punched by the likes of Darkseid etc. and has gotten back up. This sun of a gun has taken hits from tons of Superman class opponents before if you actually think about it.
Punisher is seriously outclassed in every single category.
In all honesty this is a toss up. I know Batman is a beast and just does not lose, but I would be underrating Frank. In my mind they are both peak humans. But if this fight ever happened in a comic book, the writter would just have Batman do something absurd and win, like some pressure point or something.
Originally posted by Silent GuardianA pressure poitn win is'nt absurd for batman. With his skillste he should be able to win with a presssure point.
In all honesty this is a toss up. I know Batman is a beast and just does not lose, but I would be underrating Frank. In my mind they are both peak humans. But if this fight ever happened in a comic book, the writter would just have Batman do something absurd and win, like some pressure point or something.
Originally posted by Silent Guardian
In all honesty this is a toss up. I know Batman is a beast and just does not lose, but I would be underrating Frank. In my mind they are both peak humans. But if this fight ever happened in a comic book, the writter would just have Batman do something absurd and win, like some pressure point or something.
Toss up? Based on what?
Batman is peak human, Frank Castle is not. It's only like you stated, in you're mind.
If Frank was peak human, Batman would be superhuman (Based on his feats, he can certainly be classified as superhuman).
Batman has strength to rip through metal, toss dudes through brick walls with one arm. He has benched over a ton before if I remember correctly. That's not even some of his best strength feats. In strength they are not even close.
Reflexes? Not even close again.
Speed? No competition.
Durability? Pff, that's Frank's greatest asset, but Batman still trumps him with a margin here as well. Batman has taken hits from Darkseid and other villains like him and has gotten back up.
Agility etc.? Again no competition.
Honestly, how can you compare the two or place them in equals in any way?
Frank is tough, but Batman take's out team's of White Martian's etc. by himself. Frank is done the moment he challenge's Batman to a fight.
Honestly, Bruce can kill him with a single blow. This is not an over exaggeration as there are techniques such as the Leopard blow etc.
It's not absurd for Bruce to win with pressure points. If he can harm Wonder Woman with pressure points he can kill Frank with pressure points.
Frank is simply outclassed in every away.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Toss up? Based on what?Batman is peak human, Frank Castle is not. It's only like you stated, in you're mind.
If Frank was peak human, Batman would be superhuman (Based on his feats, he can certainly be classified as superhuman).
Batman has strength to rip through metal, toss dudes through brick walls with one arm. He has benched over a ton before if I remember correctly. That's not even some of his best strength feats. In strength they are not even close.
Reflexes? Not even close again.
Speed? No competition.
Durability? Pff, that's Frank's greatest asset, but Batman still trumps him with a margin here as well. Batman has taken hits from Darkseid and other villains like him and has gotten back up.
Agility etc.? Again no competition.
Honestly, how can you compare the two or place them in equals in any way?
Frank is tough, but Batman take's out team's of White Martian's etc. by himself. Frank is done the moment he challenge's Batman to a fight.
Honestly, Bruce can kill him with a single blow. This is not an over exaggeration as there are techniques such as the Leopard blow etc.
It's not absurd for Bruce to win with pressure points. If he can harm Wonder Woman with pressure points he can kill Frank with pressure points.
Frank is simply outclassed in every away.
I agree that Batman wins....................but we still need to be careful when dealing with certain high end feats. 🙂
well its not as easy as people are making it. for some reason Frank always gets put down a few notches below some of the vets when it comes to h2h. in pure h2h combat Frank has stalemated DareDevil at one point when he finally got sick of him and decided to teach him a lesson. another time he actually beat DD and could've killed him if he wanted but spared him. Frank also did pretty well toe-to-toe with Tombstone, Wolverine and even defeated Bullseye himself. Frank's got amazing chin and he's got good combat knowledge himself. he's not a brawler but he's a vicious Martial artists whose not above fighting dirty. and he can get out of almost any kind of cuffs as we've seen in many situations. infact, he's done it so many times that he can now do it without making a sound. during civil war he did it right under Cap's nose.
I think Batman wins too but he's going to be busted up and peeing blood for a week.
Batman has been punched by the likes of Darkseid etc. and has gotten back up. This sun of a gun has taken hits from tons of Superman class opponents before if you actually think about it.
~Sado
The Punisher's "power" isn't durability, but rather, an ability to continue fighting regardless of the absurd wounds he's taken. The fight with the Russian, the hundreds of times he's taken bullet wounds and just shrugged them off, so on.
That said, Batman dominates him. Frank would get some good hits in, and Bruce's thought bubble would mention something about he he's astounded that he's still standing, but the Punisher isn't taking any wins here.
Originally posted by tjcoady
The Punisher's "power" isn't durability, but rather, an ability to continue fighting regardless of the absurd wounds he's taken. The fight with the Russian, the hundreds of times he's taken bullet wounds and just shrugged them off, so on.
It could be argued its durability as well, otherwise his body would just fall aprt in certain circumstancs.
Originally posted by tjcoady
That said, Batman dominates him. Frank would get some good hits in, and Bruce's thought bubble would mention something about he he's astounded that he's still standing, but the Punisher isn't taking any wins here.
Somebody just mentioned some of Franks good h2h showings, you can ignore it if you wish. Anybody can debate by just making statements Frank can definetly get a few wins.
Closer than certain people would like to admit, Franks a win-by-any means kinda guy, Bruce isn't, in this isntance, it wouldn't be too farfetched for Bats to attempt a pressure point win..
but then it wouldn't be too farfetched for Frank to attempt a kick in the BatBalls!! or an eye gouge! or both in quick succession.
Batman, but just!
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It could be argued its durability as well, otherwise his body would just fall aprt in certain circumstancs.Somebody just mentioned some of Franks good h2h showings, you can ignore it if you wish. Anybody can debate by just making statements Frank can definetly get a few wins.
Yeah, you know, I was thinking about going all out about this.
To your first point.... well, we agree on that. "Durability" and "continuing to fight despite damage" means the same thing, so I don't really know why you brought this up.
As to your second point about the Punisher's hand to hand showings.... I've read them. I've seen all of them. I have read every single "Punisher" comic book since 1990, including the Punisher Versus Archie. We can go through all of those....
....... Or we can just acknowledge what is true, which is that Batman is just better. Yes, Frank has gotten some wins against Daredevil, the Iron Fist, even Spiderman. But those had circumstances. Batman gets wins against ****ing White Martians, Kryptonians, and Thanagarians. Batman is one of the best martial artists in his universe... Frank isn't, and this isn't an arguable fact.
Originally posted by tjcoady
....... Or we can just acknowledge what is true, which is that Batman is just better. Yes, Frank has gotten some wins against Daredevil, the Iron Fist, even Spiderman.
You would also know that Frank has actually looked good against DD while being at a disadvantage.
Originally posted by tjcoady
But those had circumstances. Batman gets wins against ****ing White Martians, Kryptonians, and Thanagarians. Batman is one of the best martial artists in his universe... Frank isn't, and this isn't an arguable fact.
Well for starters I think this is another case where a person debates by looking at facts that back up their case but not looking at the evidence as a whole.
Well im pretty sure Batman has wins against White Martians which had cirumstances. Im not sure what incident you are thinking of but if you are refering to JLA it smacks of hypocrisy, not to mention there were circumstances to the fight.
Im pretty sure you dont actually debate by just focusing on high showings im pretty sure we look at feats as a whole. Hell Captain America has gone up against the likes of Korvac and has been stated by Brubaker and Busiek to being superior to Batman. This doesnt change the fact that Punisher actually made Cap look like a chump on one ocassion. However since Frank has also bad showings against top tiers Batman wins the majority.
FYI more recently he stalemated Kraven The Hunter, that guy beat Black Panther in h2h. Im pretty god damn sure BP could beat or stalemate Batman in h2h and Batman beating White Martians dont change a god damn thing.