Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I just got a killer idea: Borg vs. VongAlso, Borg vs. Zerg
And by the transitive property: Zerg vs. Vong.
Did your mind just explode or what?!?!(one)
The Borg vs. Vong would raise the same problems as S. 8472- the Vong's shapers might mimic/defend against the nanoprobes and push the collective back. The idea of a confrontation is nerdvanna.
*halo fanboy emerges*
Vong vs the flood.
... Flood would kill the Vong eventually... and the Empire too.
According to the Halo 1 novel when the Chief first met the flood in that room it filled up with "hundreds of thousands" in "seconds".
There are literally multiple trillions of flood and they can hide in pipes,sewers everything. They inherit the traits of any animal they infect in seconds, and gain their abilities, strength, etc. If they take over a pilot or officer they gain all of their knowledge and can even pilot ships and fire weapons. The Overmind is, unlike Jedi and Sith, literally omniscient.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
the Empire fielded the single most powerful fleet in SW history. (says Gideon.)
The Ultimate Visual Guide states explicitly (twice, I believe) that the Galactic Empire was an unprecedented military build up in galactic history.
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
... Flood would kill the Vong eventually... and the Empire too.
On the ground? Possibly.
In an actual campaign? No. The Empire's Star Destroyers are far more potent than Covenant ships; a single Destroyer can obliterate the surface of a planet. Likewise, the Emperor can take control of any Star Destroyer in the fleet due to backdoors in the interface network. He can literally render a Flood-operated vessel immobile or activate its self destruct sequence without difficulty.
According to the Halo 1 novel when the Chief first met the flood in that room it filled up with "hundreds of thousands" in "seconds".There are literally multiple trillions of flood and they can hide in pipes,sewers everything. They inherit the traits of any animal they infect in seconds, and gain their abilities, strength, etc. If they take over a pilot or officer they gain all of their knowledge and can even pilot ships and fire weapons. The Overmind is, unlike Jedi and Sith, literally omniscient.
The Gravemind isn't omniscient. It, like Palpatine, displays remarkable foresight (Palpatine, actually fares much better in comparison). It can and was taken off its guard and destroyed (twice) for just that reason.
It is generally considered, since the release of the ICS. That Star Trek is no match for Star Wars. Trek ships generally have firepower in the hundreds of megatons range. SW is in the hundreds of gigatons. With that said SW closest match from sci-fi fans around the net is the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k
Without the aid of Vader or Palpatine aka Sidious, I think the Borg would assimilate the Death Star. If a platoon of Borg managed to infilitrate the Death Star or even a Star Destroyer, then it's over. Blasters would become ineffective. The personal shield on a drone would protect it from a blaster shot. The only being that can stop a drone is a Force-user. A lightsaber harmonics wouldn't be affected by a drones shields.
If the Borg managed to fully assimilate a Star Destroyer and incorporated turbolasers with Borg disruptors and Borg shields, than it would be invincible. Proton torpedoes would useless - you'd need at least a quantum or transphasic torpedo to punch through the enhanced shields. Armor density would be strengthened and if turbolaser and disruptor were linked, you'd have a particle weapon that could cause more than twice the damage a standard turbolaser could cause.
Opinions?
Merry Christmas to you too. But yes, 27,000 men would be assimilated along with the ship. Borg doctrine is to seize engineering first and computer systems next and last the weapons systems negating the self-destruct. Along the way they would be assimilating crew members. So in theory, a Star Destroyer can be assimilated. So a Star Destroyer that has been assimilated by the Borg would be invicible except to S.8472 or maybe the Dominion.
Originally posted by Darth TruculentThis is of course assuming that the entire crew of a Star Destroyer will just stand there and not fight back. And assuming that the Borg can't be defeated.
Merry Christmas to you too. But yes, 27,000 men would be assimilated along with the ship. Borg doctrine is to seize engineering first and computer systems next and last the weapons systems negating the self-destruct. Along the way they would be assimilating crew members. So in theory, a Star Destroyer can be assimilated. So a Star Destroyer that has been assimilated by the Borg would be invicible except to S.8472 or maybe the Dominion.
Originally posted by Gideon
[I]On the ground? Possibly.
No possibly to it.
In an actual campaign? No. The Empire's Star Destroyers are far more potent than Covenant ships; a single Destroyer can obliterate the surface of a planet. Likewise, the Emperor can take control of any Star Destroyer in the fleet due to backdoors in the interface network. He can literally render a Flood-operated vessel immobile or activate its self destruct sequence without difficulty.
But in the end that's an SD gone out of the fight and thousands of personnel down the drain. And any information, tactics, strategies, location of key areas, anything a an infested person knows, the flood and thus the Gravemind knows about. Even the Empire, with all it's vastness, can't afford to losee a hundred thousand men for ever thosuand or hundred thosuand Flood lost in the process.
The Gravemind isn't omniscient. It, like Palpatine, displays remarkable foresight (Palpatine, actually fares much better in comparison). It can and was taken off its guard and destroyed (twice) for just that reason.
I misworded. The Gravemind only sees and knows everything the Flood see. He has telepathy too. That's not omnciscient though is it?
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Without the aid of Vader or Palpatine aka Sidious, I think the Borg would assimilate the Death Star. If a platoon of Borg managed to infilitrate the Death Star or even a Star Destroyer, then it's over. Blasters would become ineffective. The personal shield on a drone would protect it from a blaster shot. The only being that can stop a drone is a Force-user. A lightsaber harmonics wouldn't be affected by a drones shields.If the Borg managed to fully assimilate a Star Destroyer and incorporated turbolasers with Borg disruptors and Borg shields, than it would be invincible. Proton torpedoes would useless - you'd need at least a quantum or transphasic torpedo to punch through the enhanced shields. Armor density would be strengthened and if turbolaser and disruptor were linked, you'd have a particle weapon that could cause more than twice the damage a standard turbolaser could cause.
Opinions?
If it was that easy then everytime the Borg beamed aboard a ship they would win. They don't. It's not like the Borg can adapt their shields in seconds. They'll die first.
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
No possibly to it.
Yes, there is.
We've seen throughout all three games that the Flood, while incredibly formidable, have been destroyed by Covenant and UNSC strike teams. Hell, the Master Chief alone has battled armies of them and lived to fight another day.
While the Chief is more trained and dangerous than your average stormtrooper, he's nothing special. His armor is sub-par, his weapons are sub-par, his support infantry is sub-par (when in comparison to that of the Empire). And, remember, the Empire's forces are hardly limited to run-of-the-mill stormtroopers. There are dozens of specialized troopers -- including the likes of Dark Troopers and Purge Troopers -- which are juggernauts of technology designed to fight and kill Jedi. They would decimate Flood forces.
What makes the Flood so dangerous is their unlimited numbers. But they would never just simply overrun the Empire; the Flood casualties would be astronomical.
But in the end that's an SD gone out of the fight and thousands of personnel down the drain. And any information, tactics, strategies, location of key areas, anything a an infested person knows, the flood and thus the Gravemind knows about. Even the Empire, with all it's vastness, can't afford to losee a hundred thousand men for ever thosuand or hundred thosuand Flood lost in the process.
A single Star Destroyer isn't something that the Empire will worry about at all. Palpatine lost countless Star Destroyers by the time of Dark Empire and still managed to retake the galaxy a second time in under a year. Not to mention all of the shit he has cooking up in the Maw Installation -- the planet destroying space stations and whatnot. And understand: Palpatine isn't the UNSC or Covenant. Unlike them, he hasn't got a shred of honor or compassion to struggle with. He's easily as twisted and as ruthless as the Flood themselves -- given the extent of the Imperial Remnant's capability with nanoviruses in Legacy of the Force, it wouldn't surprise me if Palpatine simply had a virus made to target the Flood and drop it off on every planet in the galaxy.
He's willing to destroy civilizations, kill civilians, wipe out species to win. And he has the means to do so.
I misworded. The Gravemind only sees and knows everything the Flood see. He has telepathy too. That's not omnciscient though is it?
No.
Which, if that were the extent of their powers, make him no better than Palpatine. The difference being that Palpatine is capable of remarkable foresight (and also has the services of the Prophets of the Dark Side). He can and will look into the future to strategize how to combat the Flood.
Originally posted by Gideon
While the Chief is more trained and dangerous than your average stormtrooper, he's nothing special.
As the overwhelming force the Flood appear to be, I would consider burning and killing thousands of them by yourself something special. But, the problem is, I don't know how good the Master Chief is in comparison to, say, a Dark Trooper or a Purge Trooper.
Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
As the overwhelming force the Flood appear to be, I would consider burning and killing thousands of them by yourself something special. [B]But, the problem is, I don't know how good the Master Chief is in comparison to, say, a Dark Trooper or a Purge Trooper. [/B]
You misinterpret. I mean that he is nothing special in terms of his resources. Everything he has at his disposal, the Remnant could match without difficulty. The Empire at its peak? Pssh. Palpatine could create billions of Master Chiefs.
An Imperial Purge Trooper is a prototype of the Dark Trooper project. It's twice the size and height of an average human, equipped with certain magnetic tractor beams and modifications that made them all but immune to even the most potent telekinetic attacks. They were equipped with ridiculous physical strength as well as missile launchers and energy blades to combat lightsabers.
They gave the Apprentice fits, so they are designed to attack and kill high-end Force users.
Originally posted by Gideon
An Imperial Purge Trooper is a prototype of the Dark Trooper project. It's twice the size and height of an average human, equipped with certain magnetic tractor beams and modifications that made them all but immune to even the most potent telekinetic attacks. They were equipped with ridiculous physical strength as well as missile launchers and energy blades to combat lightsabers.They gave the Apprentice fits, so they are designed to attack and kill high-end Force users.
Being Good Against Jedi (henceforth referred to as BGAJ) =/= Being Good Against Flood. (Which is used so rarely on this forum that it doesn't deserve its own acronym.)
Purge troopers are, as I recall, essentially all machines. They are incapable of infection or assimilation by the Flood. We have seen in combat that Flood ground tactics are generally laughable; they simply swarm their opponents, lashing out with superior strength, and then infecting their prey.
Purge troopers are taller, more massive, and physically stronger than Flood attack forms. Their magnetic tractor beams will likely prevent them from being knocked down; their rocket launchers enable them to destroy large swarms of Flood; and their energy blade will also allow them to handle the Flood quite easily -- the advantage therein being that unlike Covenant energy swords -- Imperial blades last forever.
Keep in mind that as far as individuals go, Jedi are vastly more formidable than the Flood. Jedi reflexes and speed are lightyears ahead as are their capacity for destruction; as you correctly point out, the Flood are incapable of metaphysical attacks via telekinesis or the Force. All in all, they are far less threatening (I reiterate: the true danger represented by the Flood is simply their capacity to evolve and infect, not their physical attributes).
The Empire can mass produce Purge troopers quite handily. And this is, of course, ignoring all of the other dozens of stormtrooper and infantry varients and the Emperor's corps of dark side adepts, all of which could easily obliterate the Flood.