Originally posted by carver9
My take on goku vs superman doesnt have anything to do with this thread and I never said that everyone could beat superman, I just think that high heralds should be able to.Dont get me started on you thinking that superman can beat thanos and possibly get some wins on odin.
Im going to stop spamming this thread before I get a warning. If you want to continue with the insults I dont mind, enjoy.
I don't think, i know he would beat Thanos if a cross-over ever happened...and as for Odin I'd say he has a decent shot.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Surferoutpowersmephistoinhisowndime.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Surferdefeatsmephisto.jpg
Here surfer overwhelms mephisto in his own realm. U see Surfer is skyfather level just like superman. 💃
Originally posted by ultimatethor
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Surferoutpowersmephistoinhisowndime.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Surferdefeatsmephisto.jpg
Here surfer overwhelms mephisto in his own realm. U see Surfer is skyfather level just like superman. 💃
Skyfather!? Are you ****in' creasy!?
Galactus himself didn't overwhelmed Mephisto in his own realm!
He had to devour it!
So Surfer > Galactus > Superman=Odin > Thanos !!!
💃 💃 💃
Originally posted by Enyalus
That's ridiculous. And dated? Sept and Oct 08 is dated? Please.You want more red sun radiation hurting Supes? Fine:
That's outdoors, as you can see. He also has showings against Omacs and Lex Luthor, too. But you and Raoul and anyone who knows Superman knows he's weak against red solar radiation. To say he can simply overcome it, on the level Photon - Mr. I can tear holes in space and time, or SS - Mr. my power alone destroys planets and creates black holes, is foolish.
There's your evidence.
Superman is a non-factor in this thread. So is J'onn. And Diana gets BFR'd.
Originally posted by Raoul
those scans get contradicted at the end of that actual arc, i said so earlier.mcduffie's JLA is a low showing. clark has low showings throughout that book. it's not indicative of the standard superman showings against red sun.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
BFR has worked agaisnt supes when exactly...and supes has resisted skyfather level transmutation and somehow only a herald level being will do what hasn't been done before lol. Bullrushing....SS has done that when exactly and besides that supes could probably do the same since he does have the battle tendency to fight that way. SS bullrush has been countered and reacted to by Thanos of all people and supes>Thanos in regards to speed reflex.
1. It worked anytime Darkseid, Desaad, or any other number of villains teleported him away successfully. Unless he has a way to teleport back, a BFR from either Genis or Norrin WILL work.
2. Surfer pulls offensive bulrushes quite often, here’s an example if you need one…
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4743/silversurfer198901920gh4.jpg
3. Proof that Supes’s reflexes are greater than Thanos’s. Thanos has reacted to Surfer while Surfer was moving thousands of times the speed of light, what reflex feat does Supes have to his credit that’s superior?
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Or it isn't like supes simply can't fly back since he is a FTL character, althought you're right if supes uses T-VO there isn't anything SS could do...why didnt I think of that right mate. Anything else....aside from the BFR insanity or and "weakness exploitation"LMAO.
1. How is Supes going to fly back from another dimension?
2. Feel free to post possible uses of T-Vo and I’ll post scans of Surfer countering similar effects.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well you are guys making basless assertions, I could easily go with the T-VO excuse in every debate but I actually try debating what's likly and consistent. So if I say supes could outtrace SS and blitz KO him there is some merit to it since he has the speed and feats to support it....SS BRFing somone on supes level is a tremendous leap in judgment and spoken in complete ignorance of supes powers.
1. What feats does Supes have to support his “blitz KOing” someone with Surfer’s speed, durability, force fields, etc. ?
2. Supes’s “level” is irrelevant as to whether or not he can be BFR’d successfully. Teleporting is teleporting, if you can do it to one person successfully than you can do it to pretty much anyone successfully(whether or not they can return under their own power is another matter).
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS doesn't have the combat related speed showings to prove that, were not judging by powersets but by the feats performed. Supes speed caught amazo off guard as well, and amazo has the combined attributes of the JLA.
1. Surfer doesn’t have to have combat feats to prove that his speed of thought and action are higher than Supes’s, anything that gives an indication of Surfer’s speed of thought/action is sufficient. Not that I’m supporting the claim mind you because I believe the two to be comparable, but your reasoning is off on what’s necessary to prove the point.
2. Surfer didn’t just “catch him off guard”, he grabbed him by the throat and threw him with such speed that Nova didn’t see him despite Nova’s impressive level of super speed/reflexes.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
No he doesn't, there is no combat speed feat SS has that tops Supes and even goober conceded that point. At best, SS can intiate blast at high speeds and has fast mobolity...although its rarly ultalized agaisnt opponents but more for large groups of ships and what not.
2. Being able to move and initiate blast at super speed IS combat speed.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
All those things are easily countered, on the other hand I see no counter for T-VO.
1. The Power Cosmic is a suitable counter for T-Vo.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes has a better track record agaisnt skyfathers then Thanos does, and we all know what Thanos does to SS. By ur line of reasoning we are demeaning supes by even considering him herald level...if anything he is more skyfather in power then thanos or ss lol. Oh and I suppose flying to the source wall which is located at the far edge of DCU in only 3 panels a good measure of speed...and hell in addition to supes superior stats I suppose his HV/T-VO are just useless additives that shoudlnt be considered...
1. Wasn’t Supes sun amped when he flew to the Source Wall? If so, doesn’t matter…
2. What superior stats do you keep on going on about? Supes has the edge in strength, but they’re comparable in both speed and durability and Surfer has him beaten as far as overall power output and versatility goes.
3. HV isn’t really worth considering due to Surfer near immunity to heat, uber durability, and his silver skins tendency to reflect energy of that sort.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Amazo had to exert himself to take supes down with red solar energy...and where are you getting that SS and genis have superior output to amazo lol. Supes still got in and surprised Amazo with his speed, and amazo>SS in regards to reflex.
1. As other’s have already mentioned, it was never said that Amazo was exerting himself.
2. Amazo was using Firestorm’s powers, and I’m pretty sure that both Surfer and Genis have higher output than he does. If you disagree though, we can compare the feats of Firestorm, Genis, and Surfer...
Originally posted by Allankles
Except of course Supes is said to super metabolize yellow sun energy. This partially explains why he gets so much power. There's another theory that he isn't actually powered by the yellow sun directly but that it merely helps him unlock the entropic power within or that it unlocks some interdimensional force that empowers him.So I personally don't feels thats a power that will work on Supes in the way you've described not unless he is shooting beams of red sun energy directly at Supes and even then it would depend on their surroundings.
If Supes is doing anything like metabolizing the energy then it would be in some bio energetic form, further there's evidence that his power is a little bit more exotic than simple sun radiation.
1. You’ve mentioned that stuff before, but did you ever come up with anything to support it since it runs counter to scans like this…
Originally posted by Allankles
They fight in higher plane of cosciousness it has nothing to do with power and it's not his soul that is pulled out or anything in only requires that Supes link (not invade) with his mind and they find themselves in the plane of reality the T-Vo practitioner's mind is in.In one story the activationof these disciplines involved Supes merging with the heartbeat of the cosmos matching cosmic concordance. So therE's nothing SS can do about that. Problem will be that Supes can alter reality as he sees fit in this arena, SS is going to lose 10/10 in that scenario.
And why can't genis vell be pulled into this arena when an abstract like Dominus was pulled?
Supes pulled Dominus after an extended effort. He won’t be able to take his time doing it while Genis monologues the way Dominus did.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
T-VO defeated a skyfather level characer...SS is not anywhere near appraching that power and T-VO is not the same astral plane as marvels nor is it mind crontrol. Red solar energy gun taking him down....yet we can ignore his fight with zod under a red sun that was tearing up a planet lol.
1. Surfer’s beaten/stalemated sky fathers like Mephisto before, so yeah I think he approaches that kind of power.
2. The planet was only being destroyed because the two of them were tied to it spiritually so their injuries to each other caused damage to the planet itself. Stop try to misrepresent things.
Originally posted by Raoul
and what else happened with ruin? superman was indoors. unless the surfer can cut off his access to the sun, red sun isn't doing shit.also, it was professor hamilton. yet another person with intimate knowledge of superman.
also, if i make galen prove amazo exerted himself (though i don't remember him doing so), that means i'll have to tell everyone else to show examples of photon bfr'ing someone of superman's caliber...
it's either both, or none at all... i don't agree with most of what galen says (tbh), but fair is fair.
It’s not really the same thing though, teleportation is teleportation. Unless Genis actually has an instance of someone being “too powerful to teleport” or an instance of Supes BEING too powerful for someone to teleport then we should just assume it’s a given. It’s like speed blitzing, we assume it will work unless there’s actually something to suggest that it won’t.
Anyway Team 1 wins decisively.
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
You are trying to discard that scan just because you guys dont like it.THIS IS NOT Fcking trolling.
Screw this shit... I am outta here since mods get into a bad mood thus they can do whatever they want...
its impossible to argue against Supes, too many you know whats around.
I will try not to post in another Superman thread again!!!
Settle down, Raoul and Bada are good guys but they have to apply the same standards to everyone whenever possible. No one(at least with half a brain) is saying that Red Sunlight won’t work on Supes, all Raoul is saying is that we can’t base the effect off of one or two showings against it. Supes has had several instances of fighting on when exposed to red sun radiation to his credit and those showings have to be acknowledged as much as his lower showings against it.
Taken on the average, red sun is an effective tool against Supes but it’s no kind of guarantee unless he’s also cut off from yellow sunlight.
Originally posted by darthgoober
It’s not really the same thing though, teleportation is teleportation. Unless Genis actually has an instance of someone being “too powerful to teleport” or an instance of Supes BEING too powerful for someone to teleport then we should just assume it’s a given. It’s like speed blitzing, we assume it will work unless there’s actually something to suggest that it won’t.
wait. its just basic teleportation?
oh... i thought it was something else...
basic teleportation would work on superman, obviously...
