Burning thought
Restricted
Originally posted by K1ll3r
My first points correspond to your last points:So Illidan can be hit by a lightning spell from a Shaman but not a lightning spell from Sephiroth? Bull. Is this gameplay mechanic? He is canonically dead. (Yes with the help of Maeiv) He was killed by 25 'Heroes' who would easily be beaten by Sephiroth, and Maeiv who lays traps. This canonically(is this a word?) happened.
Yeah he is fast, not as fast as Sephiroth (in combat). If I am assuming he is more powerful because his attributes are all higher, you are assuming it is because of the Negative Lifestream. The fact of the matter is he can beat someone with the speed of Omega Weiss or Weiss (and the power of them), . Read my first post as to why he can beat someone with the speed of Omega Weiss or Weiss. Please let me know specifically if you concede that the speed of Illidan does not matter.
In fact I have provided a canonical source for every point of mine. I have posted you a link to all my sources, including FFVII Ultimania Omega (English translated version). Maybe read my posts and my sources like I do with yours.
All of Illidans spells I have seen wouldn't even phase Sephiroth.
Cloud wouldn't use Omnislash straight away because he was required to be beat up a fair bit. Omnislash or 'Super Ultimate War God Champion Slash' is an incredibly destructive ability that uses Spirit Energy (A LOT of it) making it incredibly powerful which is why it defeated Sephiroth (Source: Ultimania Omega). If Sephiroth wanted to he could have ended that fight with ease, read all my links I have posted and you would know this. Cloud only wins because Sephiroth doesn't want to admit that Cloud is not weak so he doesn't fight at full capacity, stated by official source I have posted link to it go read it and stop saying this.
I don't know, it doesn't say anywhere he has the ability of all mages everywhere, even lowly ones. It just says he is a Masterful Sorcerer (I read Sorcerer is different somehow to Mage otherwise it would say Mage)
You take the quote and twists its meaning to be: Sephiroth is above them because of the Negative Lifestream, is one of us right? Or both of us? I know you will dispute this to your grave even though you have no evidence. One thing IS known: He is greater then all other enemies or villians in FF VII he can defeat them all one way or the other whether through speed or the Negative Lifestream, it doesn't matter.
So you admit that the Negative Lifestream alone makes Sephiroth above all other FF VII villians / enemies? However the creators didn't say it was specifically the Negative Lifestream that made him more powerful it stands to reason that there could be something else entirely that also makes him so powerful. Moot point here.
Advent Children Plot FAQ (contains FFVII game plot and analysis)http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/657/657331p1.html
FF VII Ultimania Omega FAQ (English): http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html
What can Illidan do to stop Sephiroth teleporting to a distance away eqaul to half the length of his sword from Illidan pointing his sword so that the sword is within Illidans head? Teleport himself? Even If he can (which so far you have shown he can't) his teleportation wouldn't teleport him very far and he couldnt use it in quick succession.
According to you:
Illidan:
Has ALL mage abilities plus more. (I do not agree)
Has ALL warlock abilities plus more. (I do not agree)
Can travel at speeds faster then 5+ miles a second. (I have conceded this point)
Most of his spells are instant. (I concede to this point but under the condition they cannot be used instantly after one or at the same time and one can't be instantly casted any amount of times (e.g. he can't cast the same spell twice instantly)
He has rarely been attacked by humans. (I concede)
He has spell lock (Which I believe a spell lock would work on anything that uses mana or magic points.) (I do not concede he has spell lock)
He has Anti-Magic shield (I do not concede to this point)
According to me:
Sephiroth:
Sephiroth can defeat someone moving faster then the speed of light.(you have conceded to this)
Sephiroth can cast magic quicker then 5 seconds you would know this if you played the game or watched this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkFphJHi608 (you do not concede to this point)
Said magic can bring Illidan to within a hairs breadth of death or dishing out damage eqaul to the sun exploding. (you have not conceded to this)
Has killed and been attacked by many humans and has defeated them with ease. (you have conceded to this)
Sephiroth can cast magic on Illidan (You seem to think Anti-Magic shield would stop this, it would but Illidan wouldn't have this ability)
Agreed points:
Illidan:
Can fly at speeds of up to or possibly greater than (the distance between clouds and mid land in SMV) in a second. (This however doesn't prove his agility in a combat situation, it does prove he can fly that fast)
His spells are instant (With limitations such as: He cannot use his Instant spells Instantly on top of eachother, and he cannot use a spell which he just casted for a small amount of time.) - not sure if you agree with limitations.
Sephiroth:
Sephiroth can defeat a being that can move and fight at speeds that exceed light such that you can't see him move and who also has incredibly powerful and devastating attacks and durability feats, Namely this is Empowered Weiss and Omega Weiss.
When was he canonically hit by a lightning spell? and no, canonically he was killed by Mediev, the 25 heroes would kill Sephiroth, in what way, shape or form could he defeat hundreds of spells, most of characters can go invincible in some way or live more than once and most of them have instant spells that would tear him to pieces and make him so slow and weak with curses he could not even move. hes fast id give him a few kills due to speed but by the time hes done that he would have so many Warlock, mage, hunter curses etc etc so that he will be drained, spellless, strengthless and slow.
The negative lifestream is a wave of energy he controls that is like an embodiment of all power in the world and your telling me this is not a likely reason for him being more powerful than FF beings? all FF beings are apprently formed of the lifestream so according to Terry and SHM he should be able to infect them and control them the same way he does with the Neg lifestream thus making him superior, the wave of energy is beyond them anyway.
And no because neither of them can fly, Illidan can, both of them are also prob magically helpless, Illidan is a magic powerhouse. I think Illidans speed is enough to escape Sephiroths neg lifestream uses which are the only ways I can see him beating Weiss and others, thing is their helpless to such power because afaik their not magic powerhouses like Illidan.
Ive clicked the link but its just an enormous wall of text, at least my source has small regions that describe his powers. Can you at least take a quote and tell me the area of your document?
Wouldnt phase him? on what grounds? hes not shown any durability feats, one punch from Illidan is more than enough to probably kill Sephiroth according to durability.
Now you apprently claim your source without reference to any portion of it actually backs up Sephiroth would have beaten Cloud? that still does not give reasons why Cloud wouldnt just omnislash right away, he gained nothing (infact prob lost strength since he was stabbed) since the beginning of their battle and then he annhilated Sephiroth with Omnislash.
Similair thing, its all the same, he was a masterful spell user, he would have all of those powers by canon, hes just not got the entire class spell list in gameplay thats all..
No ime saying the Negative lifesrtream IS the only possible power he has actually shown that could beat those villains, hes shown zero feats in all other areas, so in answer to the both of these arguments, no ime not actually assuming, ime using evidence that his lifestream he controls is above them, its the only thing he has shown that could beat them, his speed and strength are pathetic and have shown zero feats, and his power is pretty feeble as well compared to most but his lifestream has a one up on them.
So you have two choices, admit youve got NO case whatsoever for your argument that him being above those characters and what power this may give him OR you can take the ONLY shown power that could possibly be above them (Neg lifestream) and use that.
Sephiroth has never teleported like that, infact ive not seen Sephiroth teleport myself but thats not how teleportation has ever worked not to mention Illidan is not going to be standing still, hes going to be constantly moving, Sephiroth would miss then end up frozen with an ice spell and dropped in a lake for a laugh.
You should concede to all of them, if you do not concede to him having all Warlock powers despite having all the power of one of the greatest Warlocks in Warcraft then thats simply denile, same with the magic user, he is a masterful magic user beyond the typical human, and as shown in Warcraft, almost every mage and his dog can teleport and cast spells of the like. Hes also enhanced by Sargeras and kiljaeden who could both easily seriously erase FF7 by themselves, obviously they did not give him all their powers but a gift from any of them would make him more than a simple user of the arts.
i think its safe to say from any point of view he is vastly superior to Sephiroth and prob any other FF7 materia user in spell casting.
He is perhaps faster as shown than most FF characters and hes not unintelligent either.