Originally posted by No End N Site
Yeah. She's [b]much stronger than Ryu, it's not even close. She's even stronger than Alpha Bison. She killed'im...on her own.Rose > Alpha Bison >>> Bison II >>>>>>>>>> Ryu. [/B]
Actually, I don't remember her ever actually killing him... I remember him inpaling her thru the guts and then dissapearing/detonating, but not her outright punking him.
Originally posted by No End N Site
Yeah. She's [b]much stronger than Ryu, it's not even close. She's even stronger than Alpha Bison. She killed'im...on her own.Rose > Alpha Bison >>> Bison II >>>>>>>>>> Ryu. [/B]
In which Alpha did she kill him, and did he have the psycho engine thing? All I remembered from their encounters was Bison ****ing her up.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually, I don't remember her ever actually killing him... I remember him inpaling her thru the guts and then dissapearing/detonating, but not her outright punking him.
She kills him in SFA2. He's revived later. She then loses to a weakened Shin Bison in SFA3
Originally posted by Zack Fair
In which Alpha did she kill him, and did he have the psycho engine thing? All I remembered from their encounters was Bison ****ing her up.
Street Fighter Alpha 2.
Normal Alpha Bison is stronger than SFII Bison. We see Ryu, Ken, Cammy, Chun, and Guile jump on SFII Bison to barely pull out a win while Rose solos an even stronger version of Bison.
Startin at 1:15. This ending is said by Capcom to be canon.
Technically, rose defeated vega in sfa3, as well. We have to remember, vega impaling her was a last ditch attempt at survival. Rose kicked his can after he was blown up by Charlie. He was going to die at the hands of rose, in sfa3. He then shoved his soul into rose as his body died off. Rose's win over vega is enforced by the fact that he had to ram his soul into her. After charlie blew up the P.Drive, his soul was no longer eternal. Rose brought him to the verge of death and he had to do something fast.
Dhalsim is more powerful than current Ryu?
Originally posted by cdtmYea but Shinnok was beaten by Johnny Cage, they all fall about the same. They're powerful, don't get me wrong. They just haven't been doing the high end SF things with the same consistency.
The thing is, the Elder Gods have the feats too.According to Mortal Kombat mythology, the Elder Gods took on the One Being that comprised all of reality, and created Kamidogu that they used to shatter its body, than used its remains to create the realms.
This same One Being acted through Onaga and Shao Kahn.
And those same Elder Gods used Scorpian as their champion, to destroy Onaga,
The entire plot of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon is based on the concept of the Mortal Kombat warriors becoming so powerful, they'd threaten all the realms, too..
Basically, Mortal Kombat works on high stakes storylines.. Either an entire realm gets laid waste, or all the realms get threatened, or the Elder Gods that defeated the One Being get threatened..
No End, sorry for saying this, but I don't necessarily agree with your tier ranking of the characters. Firstly we don't have enough on Dhalsim to give him a proper tier, although I believe he's a strong character, I wouldn't put him above someone like Ryu. Dhalsim is not a driven fighter like Ryu, and we have nothing of him ever fighting and standing on par to the fighters that Ryu has had to contend with.
Rose on the other hand, yes she did beat Alpha Bison in Alpha 2, but she got wrecked by Bison in A3. Back in A1 she only put up a decent fight as well. While I do consider this a great feat by her, I don't believe this puts her above current Ryu as well either. Reason being, A2 Dictator is significantly weaker then A3 Dictator.
Ryu by the time of SFIII would've surpassed anyone in the Alpha Series besides only A3 Dictator. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying Rose at all. I truly consider her character a powerful character, and in my mind, I don't believe the tier ranking of her in the canon guide is correct. I feel her ranking in the spot to that of current Ryu, Sagat, Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu is more correct of her positioning.
As for Gen, he is hands down the most difficult character to set because of what he's capable of. I would also like to believe that Gen is on par with current Ryu, again, not above, but on par.
Lastly, for Oni, this question has actually been brought up at Shoryuken.com to Vasili and others. From what they've gathered about Oni is that he in fact actually much weaker then Shin Gouki. The reason is from what they can gather from Capcom is that Oni is the complete opposite of Shin-Gouki. Meaning that Oni is a Gouki completely unable to control his powers and thus is completely unstable, much in the state of say what Ryu would be if he became Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu.
Being that you're powerful but you no longer can control anything. Hence why SFIII Ryu surpasses Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu, this is much in the same case as Oni Gouki.
Here is the direct statement from Vasili...
"Oni represents Gouki as farthest away from Shin Gouki as he can possibly be, and still be identified as Gouki due to CJ's design and profile for him. He's canonically weaker than Gouki was back in SFZ2, and the more flare is just that: more flare to reflect an endless instability."
So Shin Gouki is still the pinnacle of his character because he is utilizing his full potential, but more importantly at his entire peak and without lack of control.
Sadly, I agree that Ingrid may potentially be the most powerful, or in my opinion the most powerful as well. Some of her feats and statements are just downright stupid, and worst of all she's a Lolita character, honestly, wtf Capcom.
That's so depressing.
Originally posted by JustFrame
Lastly, for Oni, this question has actually been brought up at Shoryuken.com to Vasili and others. From what they've gathered about Oni is that he in fact actually much weaker then Shin Gouki. The reason is from what they can gather from Capcom is that Oni is the complete opposite of Shin-Gouki. Meaning that Oni is a Gouki completely unable to control his powers and thus is completely unstable, much in the state of say what Ryu would be if he became Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu.Being that you're powerful but you no longer can control anything. Hence why SFIII Ryu surpasses Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu, this is much in the same case as Oni Gouki.
Here is the direct statement from Vasili...
[B]"Oni represents Gouki as farthest away from Shin Gouki as he can possibly be, and still be identified as Gouki due to CJ's design and profile for him. He's canonically weaker than Gouki was back in SFZ2, and the more flare is just that: more flare to reflect an endless instability."
So Shin Gouki is still the pinnacle of his character because he is utilizing his full potential, but more importantly at his entire peak and without lack of control.[/B]
Not sure I agree with this one. There's no evidence to suggest that Gouki is "Not in control" of his powers in this state. The only real difference is that he is more wild and untamed in it's use. Besides, Akuma was supposed to be the master of controlling Satsui no Hadou. To introduce this element and destabilise the character before the events of SF3 would be a little... retarded considering what he can do with those powers later in base form.
Originally posted by JustFrame
No End, sorry for saying this, but I don't necessarily agree with your tier ranking of the characters. Firstly we don't have enough on Dhalsim to give him a proper tier, although I believe he's a strong character, I wouldn't put him above someone like Ryu. Dhalsim is not a driven fighter like Ryu, and we have nothing of him ever fighting and standing on par to the fighters that Ryu has had to contend with.Rose on the other hand, yes she did beat Alpha Bison in Alpha 2, but she got wrecked by Bison in A3. Back in A1 she only put up a decent fight as well. While I do consider this a great feat by her, I don't believe this puts her above current Ryu as well either. Reason being, A2 Dictator is significantly weaker then A3 Dictator.
Ryu by the time of SFIII would've surpassed anyone in the Alpha Series besides only A3 Dictator. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying Rose at all. I truly consider her character a powerful character, and in my mind, I don't believe the tier ranking of her in the canon guide is correct. I feel her ranking in the spot to that of current Ryu, Sagat, Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu is more correct of her positioning.
As for Gen, he is hands down the most difficult character to set because of what he's capable of. I would also like to believe that Gen is on par with current Ryu, again, not above, but on par.
Lastly, for Oni, this question has actually been brought up at Shoryuken.com to Vasili and others. From what they've gathered about Oni is that he in fact actually much weaker then Shin Gouki. The reason is from what they can gather from Capcom is that Oni is the complete opposite of Shin-Gouki. Meaning that Oni is a Gouki completely unable to control his powers and thus is completely unstable, much in the state of say what Ryu would be if he became Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu.
Being that you're powerful but you no longer can control anything. Hence why SFIII Ryu surpasses Satsui-No-Hadou Ryu, this is much in the same case as Oni Gouki.
Here is the direct statement from Vasili...
[B]"Oni represents Gouki as farthest away from Shin Gouki as he can possibly be, and still be identified as Gouki due to CJ's design and profile for him. He's canonically weaker than Gouki was back in SFZ2, and the more flare is just that: more flare to reflect an endless instability."
So Shin Gouki is still the pinnacle of his character because he is utilizing his full potential, but more importantly at his entire peak and without lack of control.
Sadly, I agree that Ingrid may potentially be the most powerful, or in my opinion the most powerful as well. Some of her feats and statements are just downright stupid, and worst of all she's a Lolita character, honestly, wtf Capcom.
That's so depressing. [/B]
That's fine. You may disagree. I put Dhalsim above Ryu cuz Dhalsim he is implied to be above the fray. He has a mastery of the mystic arts and is not a driven fighter because he has found enlightenment. In all honesty, he's at the level Ryu want's to be at. This can be seen by what Gouken, Ryu himself and Rose have to say to him in the SFIV sereis.
Rose: "You are like me, aren't you? You can see things others cannot..."
Ryu: "I never tire of watching you in action. Your moves are inspiring."
Gouken: "Your heart is pure and your path righteous."
Rose is stronger than current Ryu. Ryu has gotten stronger, but Ryu in SFIII hasn't gotten to a level where he can beat the SFII versions of himself, Ken, Guile, Cammy, and Chun Li at the same time. SFIII Ryu can't beat SFII Bison. Rose can, and we know this because she beat SFA2 Bison. A stronger version of Bison SFIII Ryu can not beat.
Also, SFA1 is not canon and Ryu, by the time of 3S would not have surpassed any version of Bison. And to consider it, I would need facts and substantial evidence.
And About Gen. I seriously doubt 3S Ryu is beatin this dude.
YouTube video
Given the fact that he can go toe to toe with normal Akuma and Ryu can not is enough evidence for me.
And as for Oni, sorry to say it so bluntly but what they said on SRK is clearly wrong. Vasili is a cool guy who I look to often, but in this case, he is very wrong. Word Of God>>>>>>>>SRK, for me.Capcom has stated...
Capcom
Kuruoshiki Oni (which I shall translate as Batsh**-Insane Oni) was created to be beyond Shin Akuma.
Official blog
http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/development_blog/2011/04/12_3082.html
Translation
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27070217&postcount=9770
Lol Smh at the bastard child of SF. I try to pretend Ingrid is not a SF at all in threads where she is a main focus. I only mention her for accuracy's sake. A terrible, terrible SF character...created by an amazin, amazin video game developer. Wtf were you smokin Neo_G?!
Originally posted by Zack Fair
lol@ingridCool@Oni. I always wanted to view him that way.
You may have wanted to, but it's not true.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So Oni is supposed to be weaker? Interesting.
He is not. He appears to lack control because he doesn't care anymore. Not because he's genuinely out of control.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wait, you think that SF3 Ryu is weaker than SF2 Bison? Ryu is humble and looks to grow, so he may understate his ability. I wouldn't think they meant to portray Oni as weaker in this time though.
Can SFIII Ryu even stand a chance against himself, Ken, Cammy, Chun, and Guile at the same time? SFII Bison can. Have people seen the blast SFII Bison tanked? Or what about the teleport spam he's capable of. The giant dome power up blast he did? I mean, they guy only lost cuz he was SGSed by Akuma.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Doesn't really mean she can beat them, but fine by me.
😂 Seriously dude?
She is more powerful than the version of Bison that took them all on at once. She's only ever lost to Bison and that was when he was amped or near full power.
Is it cool on the streets to underestimate plot established boss level characters, now?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When did SF2 Bison do that?Remember Alpha Ryu had a "draw" against Akuma in Alpha. In SF3 I'd say he past Alpha Akuma. So I'd say SF3 Ryu would be capable of doing that to the weaker SF2 versions of those characters. My opinion though.
The C.Viper after math trailer. It takes place shortly after SFII. They all jump Bison and it shows Bison, even in SFII, is still boss status.
startin at 0:40 I don't see SFIII Ryu touchin this.
And Ryu Vs Akuma, it wasn't really a draw. Akuma was just testin'im. I do agree that Ryu is past Alpha Akuma by the time of SFIII, in fact, this is all but stated. However, I don't see him takin'em all on at once. I don't even think he'd beat Chun and Guile's SFII versions at once. Same for Akuma, weirdly enough. Thanks to SFIV's established canon, Alpha Akuma wouldn't beat'im all either.
The gap between II and III is about 6 years at the most, thanks to the retcon of SFIII characters being in IV, unchanged.