Zoom vs. Superman

Originally posted by Enyalus

Also false. In Flash - The Fastest Man Alive #10, Zoom is in the year 410 AD watching Rome burn. Clearly, he can travel back in time or forward in it.

See above. Your explanation is wrong. Can't blame you for it, though - that's the explanation that Wikipedia gives, and why they do so I have no idea.

Acceleration is pretty easy when you can move ahead of the current timeline. 😛 I mean, again, Flash could accelerate from 0 to c instantly and Zoom was still a blur.
[/B]

Supes can move FTL, no reason why he can't punch at lightspeed and Oa to Rao are seperated by galaxies and they travelled there in a few panels so unless you're saying they were grappling/brawling at sublight speeds, there's not much of a dispute there. Really, Supes is a bonified space traveller the only issue with him is acceleration.

Dude the Flash's could time travel by vibrating their bodies at a certain frequency Zoom's powers don't allow him to travel through time willy nilly. He probably does something similar to that ever since they retconed his powers to allow him to vibrate through objects and such.

Just saying, his powers work by slowing time he doesn't jump through temporal portals, his powers don't work like a boom tube this is why he races with Flash, if he jumped in and out of the time stream how would E2 Supes have tracked him or how would flash be able to race with him?

Think about it, he moves in normal space-time, if he time travels he probably using another trick.

Zoom controls time relative to himself, I suggest you take into account how his powers have been shown for the majority of his appearances. He appears running in straight lines, brawling with the flash, hitting WW in a straight line blitz, he isn't manipulating relative time to jump backwards and forwards he's slowing time in his own space, appearing to most as a blur.

Originally posted by Allankles
Think about it, he moves in normal space-time, if he time travels he probably using another trick.

Zoom controls time relative to himself, I suggest you take into account how his powers have been shown for the majority of his appearances. He appears running in straight lines, brawling with the flash, hitting WW in a straight line blitz, he isn't manipulating relative time to jump backwards and forwards he's slowing time in his own space, appearing to most as a blur.

And you can say that 'til you're blue in the face but it doens't make it true. In his first appearance Jay theorizes that he moves ahead of the current timeline. Nothing mentioned about normal time and him slowing it down around only himself. And since then his control has gotten better, as seen by his ability to travel backwards in time (to Rome in 410 AD) and vibrate his molecules and blink in and out of the current timeline. And this is explained recently by Zoom to Inertia, even. So it's confimed in his first appearances and his most recent.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And you can say that 'til you're blue in the face but it doens't make it true. In his first appearance Jay theorizes that he moves ahead of the current timeline. Nothing mentioned about normal time and him slowing it down around [b]only himself. And since then his control has gotten better, as seen by his ability to travel backwards in time (to Rome in 410 AD) and vibrate his molecules and blink in and out of the current timeline. And this is explained recently by Zoom to Inertia, even. So it's confimed in his first appearances and his most recent. [/B]

To jump in and out of time you need to "bend" relative space-time like a boom tube, we know for a fact that Zoom doesn't manipulate relative time. But if he time travels this is not to suggest this is how his power works when he uses his power in normal space-time. Look at the majority of his showings, his fights with Wally et al, he is moving in normal space time only he can manip time around his own space which accounts for his "speed". When he races Flash or brawls with him, he isn't jumping in and out of the time stream, jeez.

EDIT: Here Zoom explains to Inertia that he can control his "internal clock" i.e. time manip relative to his own space-time and the "internal clock" of others. Which explains how Inertia was able to take away Zoom's powers.

Originally posted by Allankles
When he races Flash or brawls with him, he isn't jumping in and out of the time stream, jeez.

No, he's moving ahead of the current timeline which Flash and everyone else is in. That does not mean that he is incapable of jumping in and out of the current timeline. He's done it before.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, he's moving ahead of the current timeline which Flash and everyone else is in. That does not mean that he is incapable of jumping in and out of the current timeline. He's done it before.

You know what I'm starting to think a lot of authors don't know what they are talking about when it comes to these speedsters. When Inertia took Zoom's powers he said he was "stealing his time". How does that make sense, even within the internal consistency of the fiction? Meh!

Originally posted by Allankles
How does that make sense, even within the internal consistency of the fiction? Meh!

The same way people were routinely going from Earth to Rann in a few panels (4 lightyears apart), or Supermen going from Oa to Rao while chatting about not being fast enough to toss Prime in the Speed Force.

I don't like the inconsistency, either.

Originally posted by Allankles
You know what I'm starting to think a lot of authors don't know what they are talking about when it comes to these speedsters. When Inertia took Zoom's powers he said he was "stealing his time". How does that make sense, even within the internal consistency of the fiction? Meh!

Originally posted by Mindset
It doesn't make sense, most writing regarding Zoom doesn't make sense because it's not consistent with his powers.

Originally posted by Mindset
It doesn't make sense, most writing regarding Zoom doesn't make sense because it's not consistent with his powers.

Which is why I was arguing for Superman on the grounds that Zoom's powers were working according to the nature of his powerset. He wouldn't be blinking in and out of time but remain in normal space time.

Originally posted by Allankles
Which is why I was arguing for Superman on the grounds that Zoom's powers were working according to the nature of his powerset. He wouldn't be blinking in and out of time but remain in normal space time.

Even if we ignore that piece of evidence, he's still multiple times faster than Superman, can punch top tiers across thousands of miles distance, and is able to go intangible to avoid Superman's ranged attacks, while using ranged attacks of his own.

But if you go by his actual feats they don't work according to his supposed powerset, or else he wouldn't be vibrating through solid objects.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Even if we ignore that piece of evidence, he's still multiple times faster than Superman, can punch top tiers across thousands of miles distance, and is able to go intangible to avoid Superman's ranged attacks, while using ranged attacks of his own.

Originally posted by Mindset
But if you go by his actual feats they don't work according to his supposed powerset, or else he wouldn't be vibrating through solid objects.

Exactly.

Zoom shouldn't have been able to phase in that one issue. Some things in comics should just be ignored.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why are you still trying?

I'm really, really ****ing dense.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm really, really ****ing dense.

Look out, that kind of talk makes us all look dense.
🙁

Originally posted by Allankles
Exactly.

Originally posted by Captain Napalm
Zoom shouldn't have been able to phase in that one issue. Some things in comics should just be ignored.

Originally posted by Mindset
So you want to ignore what his actually done and only go by what his supposed powerset would allow him to do? 😬

😈

But seriously where did I say that? If you go a few posts back I mention how he could possibly use vibration and similar tricks for time travel. In saying that I recognize that it is not consistent with his powerset; which is what I was agreeing with in your post.

Oh I see, when you said exactly to my post it I thought you were saying you wanted to go by only what his should be able to do with his powers.