Originally posted by Enyalus
Galen.
Wondy has better reflexes when it comes to blocking and reaction speeds.
Surfer is the fastest in travel and Bullrushing.
Thanos/DS have Superior reaction times when it comes to being Bullrushed. They smack top tiers away mid rush.
Thor doesn't belong here.
Well this topic has kind of run it's course and I think I'm personally ready to stamp my seal of finality, so I'll reiterate my point for those who might have misunderstood my position. I may have wrongly asserted that SS lacks combat speed, from what I understand he is able to apply the speed of his board for both offensive and defensive measures. I also understand that his battle tedency is to ultalize ranged projectile attacks offensivly while erecting force fields and shields defensivly, I suppose you can say he has a conservative line of attack that would rarely see him in the proximity of close quarters combat. So with that said, debating with the particular question of"who has the fastest combat related speed and reflex"it is quite easy to see why SS fails on a lot of fronts.
For starters, SS's speed and in particular "superspeed"is directly related to his board.Superspeed is a attribute of speed that allows one to accelerate there bodily movement to a extremly fast pace, this is commonly associated with the"speedster"type. Since SS's speed is essentially determined by his board, he can never be a speedster because his speed is not generated by his own bodily movement but rather a external device. Now inspite of this, it is very possible and reasonable to suggest that he can simply apply the speed of his board during combat to overcome this limitation....but even when doing this he has still failed to display the "speedster"level combat speed that obviously someone of his powerset is capable of. It is personally confusing why SS can use his board to travel vast spans across the universe almost instantly yet while in combat he can't use his board to the same effect.
At anyrate, the point I was trying to convey was that unlike SS...supes/ww and to a lesser extent DS don't have this limitation. They each have the attribute of movement superspeed which is why they can move they way they do in combat.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman is faster than Surfer when it comes to like agility and hand and foot movement speed. Period.Wondy has better reflexes when it comes to blocking and reaction speeds.
Surfer is the fastest in travel and Bullrushing.
Thanos/DS have Superior reaction times when it comes to being Bullrushed. They smack top tiers away mid rush.
Thor doesn't belong here.
QFT.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman is faster than Surfer when it comes to like agility and hand and foot movement speed. Period.Wondy has better reflexes when it comes to blocking and reaction speeds.
Surfer is the fastest in travel and Bullrushing.
Thanos/DS have Superior reaction times when it comes to being Bullrushed. They smack top tiers away mid rush.
Thor doesn't belong here.
I wasn't arguing with you. In fact, I used your breakdown in my analysis pages ago.
Originally posted by The Great GalenI accept your concession.
Well this topic has kind of run it's course and I think I'm personally ready to stamp my seal of finality, so I'll reiterate my point for those who might have misunderstood my position. I may have wrongly asserted that SS lacks combat speed, from what I understand he is able to apply the speed of his board for both offensive and defensive measures. I also understand that his battle tedency is to ultalize ranged projectile attacks offensivly while erecting force fields and shields defensivly, I suppose you can say he has a conservative line of attack that would rarely see him in the proximity of close quarters combat. So with that said, debating with the particular question of"who has the fastest combat related speed and reflex"it is quite easy to see why SS fails on a lot of fronts.For starters, SS's speed and in particular "superspeed"is directly related to his board.Superspeed is a attribute of speed that allows one to accelerate there bodily movement to a extremly fast pace, this is commonly associated with the"speedster"type. Since SS's speed is essentially determined by his board, he can never be a speedster because his speed is not generated by his own bodily movement but rather a external device. Now inspite of this, it is very possible and reasonable to suggest that he can simply apply the speed of his board during combat to overcome this limitation....but even when doing this he has still failed to display the "speedster"level combat speed that obviously someone of his powerset is capable of. It is personally confusing why SS can use his board to travel vast spans across the universe almost instantly yet while in combat he can't use his board to the same effect.
At anyrate, the point I was trying to convey was that unlike SS...supes/ww and to a lesser extent DS don't have this limitation. They each have the attribute of movement superspeed which is why they can move they way they do in combat.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well this topic has kind of run it's course and I think I'm personally ready to stamp my seal of finality, so I'll reiterate my point for those who might have misunderstood my position. I may have wrongly asserted that SS lacks combat speed, from what I understand he is able to apply the speed of his board for both offensive and defensive measures. I also understand that his battle tedency is to ultalize ranged projectile attacks offensivly while erecting force fields and shields defensivly, I suppose you can say he has a conservative line of attack that would rarely see him in the proximity of close quarters combat. So with that said, debating with the particular question of"who has the fastest combat related speed and reflex"it is quite easy to see why SS fails on a lot of fronts.For starters, SS's speed and in particular "superspeed"is directly related to his board.Superspeed is a attribute of speed that allows one to accelerate there bodily movement to a extremly fast pace, this is commonly associated with the"speedster"type. Since SS's speed is essentially determined by his board, he can never be a speedster because his speed is not generated by his own bodily movement but rather a external device. Now inspite of this, it is very possible and reasonable to suggest that he can simply apply the speed of his board during combat to overcome this limitation....but even when doing this he has still failed to display the "speedster"level combat speed that obviously someone of his powerset is capable of. It is personally confusing why SS can use his board to travel vast spans across the universe almost instantly yet while in combat he can't use his board to the same effect.
At anyrate, the point I was trying to convey was that unlike SS...supes/ww and to a lesser extent DS don't have this limitation. They each have the attribute of movement superspeed which is why they can move they way they do in combat.
facepalm
seriously. get over your hate, and read some damn surfer comics.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait... what? How can you say that you didn't see in any rules broken when this is strait from the rules...[b]"No Bias Claims
"
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it ....and this thread features post's like these...
...without proof to support the claim ever being shown?
And according to pr's latest post in the Forum rules(this is just an except, not the entire post)...
"If you spot someone GENUINELY trolling i.e. making inflammatory statements, blatantly lying about something on panel, then report them. Do not accuse someone of trolling just because you don't like what they say. That's what the Ignore Function is for. If you are going to be at odds with someone, and don't want to have to interact with them, don't report them secretly hoping they'll get banned or in trouble. Why? It won't work. Put them on ignore instead. It saves both members and moderators a lot of hassle"
...lying about what happens on-panel qualifies as Trolling. And seeing as how statements like these are constantly being made......despite examples being brought to light repeatedly, and are followed up with statements like these AFTER those examples have been pointed out...
...I think it's save to say that someone's been "blatantly lying". His point isn't that Surfer doesn't blitz or that Surfer's reflexes are<Supes's(which would just be a difference of opinion's), it's that Surfer doesn't have ANY actual super speed and that his speed never even factors into his fights regardless of what these scans show us to the contrary...
Surfer using speed OFF his board while in combat against the Hulk...
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2742/talestoastonish093submakz0.jpgSurfer using super speed off his board while in h2h combat against Lunatik(notice Lunatik's "speedlines" in the panel just below the narrative statement about Surfer "easily evading" his every blow)...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/MCP175p12.jpgSurfer hitting lightspeed in combat while on his board...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpgSurfer grabbing Nova by the throat and throwing him with such speed that Nova questions whether or not he just got hit by an energy blast(and Nova has "DC style" super speed)...
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6331/nova13dcp029kv7.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5162/scan0010ct3.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8756/scan0011pd5.jpgSurfer uses multiple energy blast against multiple targets while dodging multiple incoming blast while moving in a non strait line manner, and all in a single panel...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpgI have no problem with someone disagreeing with me as to HOW impressive those showings of combat speed are(because that kind of thing is pretty subjective) but that's not what he's doing, he's just ignores them and says things like "Surfer doesn't use speed during his fights". How is violating either of those rules less severe than violating the "No Non-Canon Sources" rule? Why bother even having rules if we're just supposed to put everybody on ignore and not make an issue of them being broken?
I'm not trying to start a problem or anything so I'll drop it publicly and take it to PM after this, the only reason I'm posting rather than PMing it initially is because I'm not the only one curious as to the reasoning of it all and I didn't figure you'd want to to deal with PM's to multiple members if you could answer them all at once in a post(but if you want I can tell them to PM and ask you, and you can delete this post if that would be better). [/B]
Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you going to provide proof or do we need to get the Mods involved? The forum's on thin ice right now so I'd really rather not do that, but I will if you leave me no other option. You've repeatedly made unfounded claims and outright ignored points and evidence provided by others just to aggravate those who disagree with you, and that's just the kind of thing we DON'T need when the vs Forum is under a microscope because the random observer may very well attribute that attitude to others.Put up a real argument or concede the point.
goober. while we mods do appreciate how eagle eyed you've been, some of your posts (the ones i've mentioned above, for instance) can be seen as backseat modding. if you have a problem with anyone, and you feel they are breaking the rules, you can either a) report it, b) talk to us mods directly, or c) use the ignore function. it can be taken as being a threat when you talk about bringing in the mods or that you'll go to raz about any individual poster, and tbh, it's not something I or Badabing would condone. People will always have differing opinions, some good, some not so good, and Bada and I will do our best to deal with the not so good ones.
Originally posted by Raoul
goober. while we mods do appreciate how eagle eyed you've been, some of your posts (the ones i've mentioned above, for instance) can be seen as backseat modding. if you have a problem with anyone, and you feel they are breaking the rules, you can either a) report it, b) talk to us mods directly, or c) use the ignore function. it can be taken as being a threat when you talk about bringing in the mods or that you'll go to raz about any individual poster, and tbh, it's not something I or Badabing would condone. People will always have differing opinions, some good, some not so good, and Bada and I will do our best to deal with the not so good ones.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Actually the fastest by far would be supes as he has tthe fastest movement speed. Movement speed is the foundation that is directly the cause for all functions of speed that would include travel,combat and basically any and all activities. Supes has been stated as being only second to Wally in this regard, from the list provided no one really comes close with the exception of Diana.
By far?
Whatever you say but as you noticed, I ranked Superman first so….
From the list provided overall Silver Surfer, comes damn close, with Diana behind him.
The Silver Surfer, has shown Super-Speed etc. multiple times, he has shown to dodge point blank projectiles, shown that he has a reaction time superior to nano-seconds.
I mean, simply based on the fact, that flies at speed way beyond light, and dodges oncoming targets, such as meteors etc. shows that he can give Clark a run for his money overall.
Of course, Clark and Diana, have the most showings because the way they fight is differently but just because Norrin doesn’t do it as often, doesn’t mean he can’t.
Norrin has shown travel speed, movement speed, reaction time etc. So saying he doesn’t come close when he has shown multiple times super speed that is highly impressive, is a bit underestimating him.
True Norrin rarely if ever travels without his board, but its like his third arm, so….
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Characters like SS,Thanos,Darkseid and Thor don't really have superspeed movement, which is why they fight and travel at different speeds. There flight speed/combat speeds are the cause of 2 seperate external sources.....this really isn't the case with supes. To put it simply, that is what seperates speedsters from bricks.
I agree for Thanos and Darkseid (Both have shown impressive reaction time in the past, but have never truly shown super speed on different levels) but Silver Surfer and Thor have shown super speed before.
Silver Surfer, has the capabilities, but he simply doesn’t because of the way he fights.
Thor does have well “God” speed etc. and hasn’t he shown to be capable of dodging bullets before in the past (Or am I not remembering his old comics correctly), and based on his method of travel his reaction time is impressive, but he doesn’t truly fight or move at super speed, at the usual sense, so I agree there to an extent.
I do believe though, that you are underestimating Silver Surfer, but whatever….
