Kenshiro (With upgrade) vs Android 17 and 18

Originally posted by Kento
Just like you have are taught a style. It's within all their powersets to do the same thing. They just use different attacks because they were taught them by their masters, or in Vegeta's (and probably Future Trunks) case created their own ki attacks. It's because they bulked up. Not one other case has been like that. Every amp of ki has always been speed. Vegeta was owned easily by Zarbon. Him being beaten and healed amped his ki and was able to in return own Zarbon. Gohan got angry during the Radditz part of the Saiyan Saga and his ki skyrocketed and he was able to hit Radditz who was owning Piccolo and Gokou in speed. Gokou went from being Ginyu's level before getting hurt to being able to keep up with Freeza after healing and his ki amp from that no training at all. Vegeta went from loosing to Recoome to fighting Jeice evenly who was even faster than Recoome. Then there is also Piccolo fusing with Kami. That ki amp from being beaten effortlessly to being able to keep up with 17 without any training just a ki amp. Out of all the times ki amping has equaled speed amping twice by people who just bulked up to get strong doesn't negate that ki does equal speed. While how much faster is unknown I think it's safe to say their speed increases at least half of what their power increases. At the very least since they go from being blitzed to being able to blitz after getting more powerful.

Vegeta really had no idea that Zarbon had a second form so he wasn't really prepared for that. The second time they fought, Vegeta was more than prepared since he knew what to expect and he was stronger. And yeah, Gohan was able to hurt Raditz who was faster than Goku and Piccolo, however, that doesn't mean he was faster than Raditz (who was still in shock anyway). Also, if I recall correctly, despite hurting Raditz, Gohan's power level was still lower. And what's so impressive about beaten Jeice? He could have been weaker than Recoome. As for 17 and Piccolo, they barely even fought the first time. 17 got in like, what? Two hits? And it sure wasn't very fast since Krillen was able to see him do them too. That's why we need to go by what we see instead of speculating.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Vegeta really had no idea that Zarbon had a second form so he wasn't really prepared for that. The second time they fought, Vegeta was more than prepared since he knew what to expect and he was stronger. And yeah, Gohan was able to hurt Raditz who was faster than Goku and Piccolo, however, that doesn't mean he was faster than Raditz (who was still in shock anyway). Also, if I recall correctly, despite hurting Raditz, Gohan's power level was still lower. And what's so impressive about beaten Jeice? He could have been weaker than Recoome. As for 17 and Piccolo, they barely even fought the first time. 17 got in like, what? Two hits? And it sure wasn't very fast since Krillen was able to see him do them too. That's why we need to go by what we see instead of speculating.

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/page.4/

Radditz was 1200 and he was able to dodge Special Beam Cannon after being surprised by it but Gohan was able to hit him.

Recoome was the fourth slowest in the Ginyu and fourth weakest. Jeice was much faster and he was able to blitz Vegeta when he actually tried. Jeice and Burta even say Recoome was weaker.

Piccolo was put down in two hits, and easily dodged while attacking from behind to fighting evenly and not being effortlessly dodged.

Originally posted by Kento
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/page.4/

Radditz was 1200 and he was able to dodge Special Beam Cannon after being surprised by it but Gohan was able to hit him.

Recoome was the fourth slowest in the Ginyu and fourth weakest. Jeice was much faster and he was able to blitz Vegeta when he actually tried. Jeice and Burta even say Recoome was weaker.

Piccolo was put down in two hits, and easily dodged while attacking from behind to fighting evenly and not being effortlessly dodged.

1. Okay, so? Raditz wasn't really all that surprised by Piccolo's attack. He did have that "What the..." look on his face but it's not like he was in total shock by it.

2. When did they say that?

3. Piccolo only threw out just one hit that was easily dodged. It's the hits alone that really put him out, not the speed.

Originally posted by SmashBro
1. Okay, so? Raditz wasn't really all that surprised by Piccolo's attack. He did have that "What the..." look on his face but it's not like he was in total shock by it.

2. When did they say that?

3. Piccolo only threw out just one hit that was easily dodged. It's the hits alone that really put him out, not the speed.

Hmm I misread Jeice's comment. Still doesn't change the fact that they were all around the same level and speed and Recoome was blitzing Vegeta and with his ki amp Vegeta was able to beat Jeice.

Piccolo attacked him from behind after 17 hit Trunks rushing at him was kicked away without any effort then hit him again after dodging Piccolos second attack easily.. And I never said speed was what put him out just that Piccolo wasn't able to even get any hits in or have a chance against 17 until his ki amp by fusing with Kami.

KI=Power

a Guys power(Ki)reading is their speed,strength,durability,stamina...

Originally posted by Kento
He was in shock by it's power just like he was in shock of Gohan's power because Piccolo was weak but could make such a blast and Gohan suddenly got powerful.

Hmm I misread Jeice's comment. Still doesn't change the fact that they were all around the same level and speed and Recoome was blitzing Vegeta and with his ki amp Vegeta was able to beat Jeice.

Piccolo attacked him from behind after 17 hit Trunks rushing at him was kicked away without any effort then hit him again after dodging Piccolos second attack easily.. And I never said speed was what put him out just that Piccolo wasn't able to even get any hits in or have a chance against 17 until his ki amp by fusing with Kami.

1. He wasn't in shock of Piccolo's power. His reaction to it was much different from how he reacted to Gohan's.

2. I don't see how they were all around the same level. They each had something unique about them that the others didn't.

3. Well that kind of sounded similar. My mistake.

Originally posted by BradBalboa
KI=Power

a Guys power(Ki)reading is their speed,strength,durability,stamina...

No it doesn't, especially if you look at SSJ3 Goku, who could only keep his form for a few minutes.

Originally posted by BradBalboa
KI=Power

a Guys power(Ki)reading is their speed,strength,durability,stamina...

Burter was the fastest of the Ginyu force and Ginyu was stronger than him.

Originally posted by SmashBro
1. He wasn't in shock of Piccolo's power. His reaction to it was much different from how he reacted to Gohan's.

2. I don't see how they were all around the same level. They each had something unique about them that the others didn't.

3. Well that kind of sounded similar. My mistake.

No it doesn't, especially if you look at SSJ3 Goku, who could only keep his form for a few minutes.

Recoome, Burta, and Jeice all seemed pretty much the same in what they showed. Gokou blitzed them all easily, and Burta didn't move any faster than Jeice for his so called being the fastest person in the universe. Which was a lie anyway because Gokou wasn't able to blitz Ginyu that well while he was able to do it to Jeice and Burta both easily.

for god sake , kenshiro is not just slower, he is also weaker and has much less stamina(the androids never get tired) . Also, many of kens strongest moves aim at the vital points of a human body...does an android have taht kind of thing???of course not, that is why they dont even have ki/chi. Against the androids pressure points and that kind of stuff are useless, but ken doesnt know that

Ken wouldnt last long, hes no Future Gohan 😛

Future Gohan wouldn't last against the present times androids either.

Still Gohan fought of both Androids with only one arm, considering 17/18 here consided the most powerful 2 in the universe at the time thats pretty good feat

He only fought them once with one arm didn't he? And thats when he lost.

Still he lasted, and overpowered them and got the better of them at times....

Well I actually think Gohan > Them individually since they weren't that much more powerful than Future Trunks when he first came to the past.

Originally posted by Kento
It was pretty much the same. He was surprised by the power they were generating. He looked at both in shock. Though Piccolo's attack was more powerful than Gohan's own ki was. With Piccolo he was in the middle of fighting Gokou and with Gohan he was just talking.

His expression looked very different to me.

Originally posted by Hoshi
for god sake , kenshiro is not just slower, he is also weaker and has much less stamina(the androids never get tired) . Also, many of kens strongest moves aim at the vital points of a human body...does an android have taht kind of thing???of course not, that is why they dont even have ki/chi. Against the androids pressure points and that kind of stuff are useless, but ken doesnt know that

Again, they're not really androids. That's why 18 was able to have a kid.

Did you see any of the strength and speed feats that were posted here? Don't underestimate Kenshiro.

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15972/page.13/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15973/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15973/page.2/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15973/page.3/

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/page.2/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/page.3/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/page.4/
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15974/page.5/

Dunno all looks the same to me. Attacking Gokou, huge power increase from somebody weak, and him looking straight at them.

Well now that I see it again, there are some similarities but during the Piccolo part, it seems like he was attempting to do something and even had a somewhat cocky look for a moment. During the Gohan part, he didn't do anything but looked shocked.

Well it's from two different issues. So it shows Piccolo fire it twice and his reaction twice while cutting out dialogue. Because he turns his head surprised and then looks scared as it's coming before it hits.http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15973/page.4/

Though I wonder if Akira forgot stuff between that issue or just didn't show Radditz move. Because he's standing over Gokou in the first issue and then he's far away from Gokou when Piccolo fires in the next issue.

Originally posted by Hoshi
for god sake , kenshiro is not just slower, he is also weaker and has much less stamina(the androids never get tired) . Also, many of kens strongest moves aim at the vital points of a human body...does an android have taht kind of thing???of course not, that is why they dont even have ki/chi. Against the androids pressure points and that kind of stuff are useless, but ken doesnt know that

Ken gets Kaio Ken times 20 here and what is stopping Kenshiro from cutting the androids into pieces?

True they have limitless stamina but Kenshiro has more than enough stamina to stay in this fight and win. Toki was able to survive a nuclear holocaust for two weeks without food water or shelter.

Originally posted by BradBalboa
Ken wouldnt last long, hes no Future Gohan 😛

Gohan didn't have training in Hokuto Shinken.