Count Nefaria vs Superman

Originally posted by quanchi112
Heroes fight all the time with the intention of hurting each other. Supes and Orion weren't playing hot hands. I admit they aren;t out to kill each other, but if you want something like that I direct your attention to Supes vs WW in issue 219.

Black Adam wasn't out to kill Captain Marvel either.

superman and orion fight a lot anyway. the same goes for diana (just not as much). and we're talking about captain marvel here, not orion or diana.

superman wasn't trying to kill diana in sacrfice, imo.

superman and marvel, in the last, what, ten years, haven't fought once where they were both going all out.

Originally posted by Raoul
superman and orion fight a lot anyway. the same goes for diana (just not as much). and we're talking about captain marvel here, not orion or diana.

superman wasn't trying to kill diana in sacrfice, imo.

superman and marvel, in the last, what, ten years, haven't fought once where they were both going all out.

In issue 219 Superman was trying to kill WW because he thought it was Doomsday.

Regardless, Black adam beat the new Captain Marvel and quite handily without trying to kill him.

Supes and Adam fought and it was even steven while Adam really didn't even care to fight him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My point was that even though they are still heroes they do intend to hurt the other just not kill.

show me reasonably recent instances of superman and captain marvel doing that while both men are of sound mind and body.

In issue 219 Superman was trying to kill WW because he thought it was Doomsday.

i disagree.

Regardless, Black adam beat the new Captain Marvel and quite handily without trying to kill him.

there's nothing that states superman couldn't do the same.

Nefaria.

(God, that was a lot to read through for only that reply.)

Originally posted by Raoul
show me reasonably recent instances of superman and captain marvel doing that while both men are of sound mind and body.

i disagree.

there's nothing that states superman couldn't do the same.

He tried throwing her into the sun.

There's nothing to suggest he could do so. All we know is that Black Adam can do it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why does it have to be recent? My point is when heroes get into it they are trying to hurt each other not kill each other. Orion and Superman duking it out in dotng is a perfect example.

He tried throwing her into the sun.

There's nothing to suggest he could do so. All we know is that Black Adam can do it.

different heroes, different circumstances. you can't apply what he does with orion or diana to what he does with marvel.

and when he fought diana in sacrifice, he wasn't of sound mind or body. look at their fight in for tomorrow. superman didn't want to fight.

Does anyone else notice "My/the point is", and the point being different every time?

Originally posted by Mekrob
Does anyone else notice "My/the point is", and the point being different every time?

leftright Mebbe............

Originally posted by Raoul
different heroes, different circumstances. you can't apply what he does with orion or diana to what he does with marvel.

and when he fought diana in sacrifice, he wasn't of sound mind or body. look at their fight in for tomorrow. superman didn't want to fight.

Yes, but the point is that is the only way Supes would try to openly kill her so we saw how she matched up against a Superman out for the kill.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I said when heroes get in scuffles they intend to hurt not kill.

Yes, but the point is that is the only way Supes would try to openly kill her so we saw how she matched up against a Superman out for the kill.

a brainwashed superman, not in any part of his right mind.

they intend to hurt... so?

superman and billy are around even when it comes to physical strength, and even if there's a difference, its minimal. two men reasonably evenly matched. all it takes is for one of them to be faster/more skilled/able to catch his opponent out, and billy could go down against superman the same way he did against adam.

Originally posted by Raoul
all it takes is for one of them to be faster/more skilled/able to catch his opponent out

Also, if they have magic.

Magic!

Originally posted by Mekrob
or have magic powers that also boost his punching power, as well as encasing his hand in magic essentially?

Also, if they have magic.

Magic!

😂

sure, why not? my point is that no matter how well matched two people might be, one can always catch the other out in some way.

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman Ftw.

LOL @ this new "averages" angle.

Originally posted by Badabing
It seems that there are posters who don't understand the rules or try to twist the rules in order to make things easier for the character they're debating for or against. Raoul and I have made every attempt to clarify things but there's a core of posters who still disregard rules and our posts. So let's just clear things up so the bias and trolling can be averted. I'll be using Superman and Silver Surfer as examples.

If nothing is stated for location, then the battlefield is an arena setting in a neutral universe.

Superman and Silver Surfer usually think of the safety of civilians and buildings first. Rarely do we see them go full on at the get go, due to their concerns. It's even been stated in comics. The VS Forum is an entirely different set up. No people, no buildings and the characters get general knowledge of their opponents. Superman and Silver Surfer wouldn't start a match with their strongest attack against Cyclops or Batman because they would kill them instantly. But it's plausible that they would go all out against each other since they have common knowledge and know it probably wouldn't result in an "insta-kill".

What I've explained isn't CIS......

.....It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold.

To be clear, characters like Superman, Silver Surfer, Wonder Woman, Sentry, Captain Marvel (DC), [b]Thor, etc. can and will use all their attributes when the situation allows or is needed. This is still within their personalities since we've seen instances several times. This doesn't mean it's strictly power sets. The feats have to be supported by comic showings. [/B]

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
By the way I dont think non-canon sources are automatically rejected. If you can prove that the characters are like their mainstream counterparts it should be ok, especially if you have a canon source to back it up.

Originally posted by Digi
[b]No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed. [/B]

Originally posted by Badabing
That addresses the averages angle.

My point was that a characters highest feats of durability can't be all that's looked at in a debate because his lower durability showings are just as valid as long as there's no SvFL involved. Otherwise there are plenty in the "High Herald" category that won't be considered to be KO'd by anything less than a skyfather since many have extended battles with beings on that level.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That doesn't really address the discussion about averages Bada because no one was talking about PIS/CIS but the actual limitations of Supes's durability. That's not really something that can be said is "forgotten" or "held back" if a character is KO'd by less than their highest feats.

My point was that a characters highest feats of durability can't be all that's looked at in a debate because his lower durability showings are just as valid as long as there's no SvFL involved. Otherwise there are plenty in the "High Herald" category that won't be considered to be KO'd by anything less than a skyfather since many have extended battles with beings on that level.

I honestly don't care who thinks who's more durable and was discussing the bigger picture as a mod.

Also, when talking high and low feats and considering averages, who's to say what's average? Why would your opinion be any more valid than another poster's opinion? That's why we use full capacity.

I seem to remember you having a problem regarding another poster citing a low feat of another character.

Now, back to the topic. Thanks.