Count Nefaria vs Superman

Started by darthgoober11 pages

Originally posted by fangirl101
HE's been pwned by Vision at 90 tons. That isn't his best. That isn't his average either. That's why I said at his best. From what I remember of him, he's taken shots from Thor's hammer without so much as budging.

He got taken out by the Vision after an extended battle with the Avengers, in fact it was in that same fight that he was taking shots from Thor's hammer. That's not an instance of him being portrayed as less powerful, that's him being worn down after a long fight...

Well what is his avg?

Originally posted by Mindset
Well what is his avg?

Pretty high. In his fight with the Avengers/Thunderbolts Hank Pym said that even with Thor fighting with them the Avengers beating Neferia was a fluke(or something along those lines) the first time around.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If Supes has never done the same thing despite repeated chances(and I'm pretty sure that he's had plenty of chances to take a punch from someone on Thor's level) then it DOES put him above Supes durability wise. And yeah, I'm willing to bet that the reduced mobility from having one arm tied behind your back like that would affect your punching power.

So Superman has to do something another character has done, in this case take punches without flinching from Wonderman level strength characters, in order for him to be superior to Count Nefaria in durability, eventough he has durability feats far superior to what Count Nefaria has shown ? What kind of idiocy is that ? I just pointed out why reciving a punch from a powerfull opponent without flinching isn't overly impressive, thus the Doomsday example, yet you go on how this showing supposdley prove how much greater than Superman Nefaria is.

Do you want me to ask you to show me Nefaria doing some of the stuff Superman has done. How about escaping a black hole ? Oh yeah, I forgot, he had problems with a portal Thor was sucking him in. Also funny how he wasn't no-selling Wonderman with Captain America's shield, eh ? Or how about Iron Man while amping his armour ? Or Vision. Or Thor. See where this can go ?

Originally posted by darthgoober
And by the same token, Supes has more feats because "he's an earth-bound hero, with thousands of appearances". If we're going to hold true to the characters themselves then we have to look at how they're typically portrayed rather than their high end feats. Supes's average puts him somewhere on Thor's level in the strength/durability department, Neferia's average puts him above it.

How convenient of you to ignore the holding back part, which was one of my main points on why he has more low-showings, and he's not wtfpwning everybody at insane levels, that have been shown he can achieve, eh? Per forum rules, he will operate at a level that Count Nefaria hasn't proven he can. He has showings proving that he is faster, stronger, more durable. I know it, and you even admit it. You're bringing up the 'he doesn't operate at those levels on average thus I'm going to put him at a level that fits me' in order to have Nefaria win, even after I've explained why he doesn't always operate at that level, eventough he has proven that he can. It doesn't work that way.

How often do we hear Superman say that he's holding back or that he was trying not to kill someone or critically injure them?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfCardboardSpeech

I've posted this before, but this speech is not only quitessential Superman, it's one of the greatest explanations for why Superman has such variable levels.

"That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of... cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."

YouTube video

God I love that episode. 😍

Superman Ftw.

LOL @ this new "averages" angle.

Originally posted by Brak Dayton
Count Nefaria is very tough. He beat all the Avengers including Wonder Man, Iron Man, Vision and Thor. He stopped Thor's hammer. hundred times faster than Quicksilver and the Whizzer. Yep, he is stronger than Superman and more ruthless.

And as far as I know JLA/Avengers IS canon.

I know Count Nefaria drained powers to attain his max state, but did he continue to drain powers afterwards while in his max state?

JLA/Avengers is not canon, for very obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman Ftw.

LOL @ this new "averages" angle.

Superman cannot replicate neferias battle with the avengers includong thor. He cannot beat nefaria for the majority.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I know Count Nefaria drained powers to attain his max state, but did he continue to drain powers afterwards while in his max state?

JLA/Avengers is not canon, for very obvious reasons.

you can say it till ur. Blue. Avengers jla is canon. No matter how many times u say its not.

Originally posted by Philosophía
So Superman has to do something another character has done, in this case take punches without flinching from Wonderman level strength characters, in order for him to be superior to Count Nefaria in durability, eventough he has durability feats far superior to what Count Nefaria has shown ? What kind of idiocy is that ? I just pointed out why reciving a punch from a powerfull opponent without flinching isn't overly impressive, thus the Doomsday example, yet you go on how this showing supposdley prove how much greater than Superman Nefaria is.

Characters don't HAVE to replicate feats by others most of the time, but this isn't an instance where Supes has never had the opportunity to accomplish the feat because he's had plenty of them. If he's never been able to before despite repeated opportunities then I'm not going to credit him with that level of durability and I think it's pretty safe to say that he can't do it. Neferia DOES have that level of durability though therefor his durability(at least against blunt force) exceeds Supes's.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Do you want me to ask you to show me Nefaria doing some of the stuff Superman has done. How about escaping a black hole ? Oh yeah, I forgot, he had problems with a portal Thor was sucking him in. Also funny how he wasn't no-selling Wonderman with Captain America's shield, eh ? Or how about Iron Man while amping his armour ? Or Vision. Or Thor. See where this can go ?

Neferia's never had an opportunity to do any of those things, Supes has had plenty of chances to replicate Neferia's feat but was never able to. And his initial matchup with Wonderman happened early in the day, he started having a difficult time with the Avengers after an extended battle.

Originally posted by Philosophía
How convenient of you to ignore the holding back part, which was one of my main points on why he has more low-showings, and he's not wtfpwning everybody at insane levels, that have been shown he can achieve, eh? Per forum rules, he will operate at a level that Count Nefaria hasn't proven he can. He has showings proving that he is faster, stronger, more durable. I know it, and you even admit it. You're bringing up the 'he doesn't operate at those levels on average thus I'm going to put him at a level that fits me' in order to have Nefaria win, even after I've explained why he doesn't always operate at that level, eventough he has proven that he can. It doesn't work that way.

We don't go strictly by high end feats on KMC, we go by the average and how the characters are actually portrayed. Thor's got high end feats too that are just as impressive as Supes, and Neferia was still able to put up an extended fight against him and the rest of the Avengers.

Put it this way, who do you think is more powerful Savage/Grey/Professor Hulk or DOS Doomsday? After all, any of those versions of Hulk have more in the way of actual feats, all DD really has is a bout with Supes and a second string Justice League.

Originally posted by fangirl101
you can say it till ur. Blue. Avengers jla is canon. No matter how many times u say its not.
No matter how many times you say it is in self-serving arguments, it is not canon. The scattered artifacts' locations makes JLA/Avengers impossible just as a canon story. Forget the stupidity that some of the fights showed. Most of the artifacts couldn't have been where they were at that approximate stage in history when JLA/Avengers supposedly took place. Nuff said.

Originally posted by darthgoober

We don't go strictly by high end feats on KMC, we go by the average

*sigh* been trying to tell people this shit for ages.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman cannot replicate neferias battle with the avengers includong thor. He cannot beat nefaria for the majority.

Every character has some kind of team busting feat at some point in their career.

Nefaria can't replicate most of Superman's feats.

Do you think Nefaria can match and beat DS in a fight?

None the less, the cosmic egg containing Krona was featured in JLA and it is canon for DC.

Marvel can figure out their own damn continuity and canon. durfist

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No matter how many times you say it is in self-serving arguments, it is not canon.

By the way I dont think non-canon sources are automatically rejected. If you can prove that the characters are like their mainstream counterparts it should be ok, especially if you have a canon source to back it up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No matter how many times you say it is in self-serving arguments, it is not canon. The scattered artifacts' locations makes JLA/Avengers impossible just as a canon story. Forget the stupidity that some of the fights showed. Most of the artifacts couldn't have been where they were at that approximate stage in history when JLA/Avengers supposedly took place. Nuff said.

It's canon. Stupidity of SMVFL stuff aside, it happened.

Not everyone takes continuity seriously or tries to piece together "facts" to form the "conclusions" that are accepted by individual fans or comic boards. The public couldn't care less. They just want to see fisticuff's and the good guys win at the end.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
By the way I dont think non-canon sources are automatically rejected. If you can prove that the characters are like their mainstream counterparts it should be ok, especially if you have a canon source to back it up.

For once we agree. The rules basically state that if a crossover does something that is smvfl then it can't be used. However, at the same time they do state no noncanon sources. Then again, posters opinions are noncanon as well....

Superman wins.

Originally posted by Avlon
Every character has some kind of team busting feat at some point in their career.

Nefaria can't replicate most of Superman's feats.

Do you think Nefaria can match and beat DS in a fight?

um superman can't even match ds in a fight. Only the most ridiculous superman fanboys actually think supes can. So ur example fails.

Originally posted by Avlon

However, at the same time they do state no noncanon sources.

Yeah but it does state there are rare exceptions. Obvoulsy the reason for this is because sometimes non-canon sources tend to have like you say PIS or SvFL. If not then it should be ok.

Originally posted by fangirl101
um superman can't even match ds in a fight. Only the most ridiculous superman fanboys actually think supes can. So ur example fails.

Yea, it's not like Supes hasn't beaten him in h2h.

Get over it, it's happened.

And you still haven't answered my question. Can Nefaria beat DS in a fight?