In a H2H beatdown, Supes is king, but this is a debate about the best Long Ranged Fighter, Supes -doesn't- fight long ranged as a standard way of attack, he's a H2H guy. He CAN fight long ranged and he does it well (kicks ass at it actually), but when compared against people who regularly ONLY fight at ranged like the SS and GL does, is he even a factor here (yes, they can fight H2H, too but only as often as supes fights at ranged)?
Originally posted by FrothByte
How do you define instantaneous? coz as far as i've seen, thor can shoot power blasts from his hammer as soon as he points it at a target (we're not talking about lightning or god force here). it's not like he points at a target, charges his hammer, then releases the shot. he points and shoots. correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that instantaneous? Surfer and GL do the same thing, point and shoot. i've seen gl, surfer, and thor at times charge first (gather their energy) before shooting which looks like it makes their shots stronger... but i've also seen them just discharge shots at will (can anyone provide scans of the thor vs. surfer comics).the only advantage that supes has is he doesn't need to point his hands or anything, he just looks and shoots... but considering the speed movement of these guys, pointing your hand (or ring or hammer) won't be that far behind pointing your eyes.
but then isn't thor capable of utilizing radial attacks? (power flows out from him in a circle). I'm not sure about it, but incase he can (and I'm pretty sure that surfer can do it too) then they don't even need to point before shooting.
P.S. ... how strong is superman's breath? Is it enough to affect the intergalactic beings who travel through the vacuum of time and space (yup, that's surfer, thor, and gl)?
Pointing and shooting is not instantaneous.
SS can almost be instantaneous due to his speed.
Superman's HV comes out astronomically times faster than Thor could even think to move his arms to point. GL may even be slower.
Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that.
Originally posted by h1a8
Pointing and shooting is not instantaneous.
SS can almost be instantaneous due to his speed.
Superman's HV comes out astronomically times faster than Thor could even think to move his arms to point. GL may even be slower.Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that.
Ok i concede that pointing and shooting is not as fast as shooting from the eyes... it's about a few milliseconds slower.
He'd just better make sure that it's enough to at least knock down his opponents (considering that his HV actually does penetrate the opponent's defense) otherwise he'll be hit by long range attacks stronger than his HV.
as for the breath thing... sorry, but until i see it happen, i just can't picture supes blowing ss away when ss has the power to travel through black holes. I also can't seem to imagine supes blowing thor away when thor is powerful enough to trade blows with superman (unless supes breath is stronger than his physical strength... which i doubt).
Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok i concede that pointing and shooting is not as fast as shooting from the eyes... it's about a few milliseconds slower.He'd just better make sure that it's enough to at least knock down his opponents (considering that his HV actually does penetrate the opponent's defense) otherwise he'll be hit by long range attacks stronger than his HV.
Surfer, Thor, GL, and I believe Firestorm have one major advantage over Superman...Forcefields.
However, Superman has better reaction times than the rest.
On the other hand, Surfer, Firestorm, and Thor can use indirect attacks/defenses that can't be seen coming (from a straight line) such as matter manipulation, transmutation, energy absorbtion, and Godblast.
Surfer has one other attribute that gives him an enormous advantage in long range fighting, and that is cosmic awareness.
IMO, Surfer is the best long range fighter.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok i concede that pointing and shooting is not as fast as shooting from the eyes... it's about a few milliseconds slower.He'd just better make sure that it's enough to at least knock down his opponents (considering that his HV actually does penetrate the opponent's defense) otherwise he'll be hit by long range attacks stronger than his HV.
as for the breath thing... sorry, but until i see it happen, i just can't picture supes blowing ss away when ss has the power to travel through black holes. I also can't seem to imagine supes blowing thor away when thor is powerful enough to trade blows with superman (unless supes breath is stronger than his physical strength... which i doubt).
I'm not saying that both Thor and SS can't resist the breath. I'm just saying that initially they can be knocked back by it. They can indeed fight to get back.
I'm not saying that Superman is the best long range fighter either.
I'm just saying that his long rang fighter abillity doesn't suck as some people are making it out to be.
If cis is off and bloodlust is on then Superman is at least as good as the other two. If cis is on then Superman is probably not as good as SS and maybe some others in long range fighting. But his super vision and reflexes do help in that area.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not saying that both Thor and SS can't resist the breath. I'm just saying that initially they can be knocked back by it. They can indeed fight to get back.I'm not saying that Superman is the best long range fighter either.
I'm just saying that his long rang fighter abillity doesn't suck as some people are making it out to be.If cis is off and bloodlust is on then Superman is at least as good as the other two. If cis is on then Superman is probably not as good as SS and maybe some others in long range fighting. But his super vision and reflexes do help in that area.
How can superman be as a good a long range fighter as SS if CIS is off?
Originally posted by h1a8
his HV comes out faster than any of SS attacks and it can go through almost anything if the mental blocks are off.
SS is almost as fast but is more versatile. I say about a tie.
Proof of the HVs speed? And it can go thru almost anything?lol, while the HV is powerful SS blasts are considerably more powerful than it not only that SS has numerous array to choose from. Further SS doesnt even have to blast in order to affect things from far away so i dont know how u see them as being equal.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Proof of the HVs speed? And it can go thru almost anything?lol, while the HV is powerful SS blasts are considerably more powerful than it not only that SS has numerous array to choose from. Further SS doesnt even have to blast in order to affect things from far away so i dont know how u see them as being equal.
Its light speed.
I agree with everything you said. I just believe Superman can blast SS before SS can blast him.
Now energy can appear invisible (like gamma rays). This alone makes it seem that SS is affecting things far away without blasting at them.
I now agree with you though. SS is the better long range figther than Superman is. I was only applying Superman to a one on one situation. Where SS is clearly much better at a one on many situation.
Originally posted by h1a8
his HV comes out faster than any of SS attacks and it can go through almost anything if the mental blocks are off.
SS is almost as fast but is more versatile. I say about a tie.
How can HV be faster than SS attacks just because he can shoot it thru his eyes? SS can shoot thru his eyes too, he pwnd God cable that way. Also, he's not almost as fast. He's faster.