Optimus Prime vs. King Kong

Originally posted by Stoic

I can easily see how people can say that Kong may be able to rip Prime apart in a long blown out H2H contest, but I am arguing that Prime would see this coming from a mile away, and adjust his tactics to long range.

probably true

but there are a gang of clowns in this thread who would have you believe that prime would beat kong sans weapons in a fighting pit because hes that strong and kong is apparently made of jello.

and to them i say:

Originally posted by focus4chumps

you will never get to disqualify physical strength from the topicdf

Originally posted by Master Han
...yes, you did. You ignored my pointing out Prime has ripped apart metal transformers.

You're projecting human level intellect to Kong. He'd have to immediately recognize Prime's threat as a ranged combatant and go for his arms, rather than doing what he usually does, taking a few seconds to roar and intimidate before going for a wild gallop. 'cause, you know, he's not entirely sentient.

In what reasonable scenario would Prime and Kong start fighting from 5 meters away? Prime has locator technology, and he's certainly hearing Kong's approach.

Furthermore, even if Kong somehow manages to close the distance; about as likely as Joe Bloggs is to beat a gunman, Prime still has these:

which we see him using to chop transformers in half with single strokes

indeed, all he needs to do is to get one free arm, even temporarily, and blast Kong's face off at close range. He's obviously a better fighter than Kong, and could possibly roll/evade Kong's maneuvers for just the split second needed to shoot him.

----

So, in conclusion, the only scenario in which Kong conceivably comes out on top is if you put them in a ridiculous and contrived scenario (ie., immediate close quarters), and presume that Kong magically knows how to take Prime down with human-level efficiency and intelligence.

No, I didn't; I directly replied to that question with:

Originally posted by Robtard
1) How does that automatically mean Prime is stronger when we're dealing with a fantasy ape who's tissue is obviously far more dense than a standard gorilla's? By your own previous reasoning, you said 'heavier = more powerful'. Does that reasoning fly out the window now that we have learned Kong is heavier? Silly, that.

You then avoided that by your own previous science reasoning, Kong would be the stronger.

If we're going to script that Kong won't attack a robot but instead do his instinctual gorilla tactics of roaring and chest thumping, then we MUST apply the same standards to Prime. Prime's a hero and respects life, he wouldn't just shoot Kong dead, he'd try to humanely incapacitate him first. He'd get his ass kicked here trying.

No scenario was listed in the OP. So the fight could start from up close as easily as far away. The fair thing to do is have two matches. One starting at a distance; the other up close.

Did you not watch Kong juggle a white-girl while keeping her safe and fending off three opponents? Kong is extremely agile, aware of his surroundings and a very capable fighter.

Why is a close quarter fight "contrived", but them starting at a great distance where Prime has every advantage and Kong is scripted to not attack but instead posture about? Seems very biased, imo.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No Admantium is a most likely a heavy ass metal and the frame would withstand the impact better without being rocked so hard..

There's quite a bit regarding this...

616 universe has it being some sort of iron alloy...made with a secret process. So it would have a density around iron.

But the movies have adamantium being some sort of foreign metal from a meteorite.

Both made Wolverine heavier.

Originally posted by Robtard
1) Why are people still arguing that Kong is physically weaker than Prime? It's already been shown that going with his lowest rating, he's still heavier than Prime at Prime's highest rating.

2) Why are people still calling Kong "soft" and "squishy"? It's been shown he can dead fall 440 meters onto concrete and not splatter, let alone not rupture.

Touché

IIRC, Kong had to be made of a tougher material than your standard gorilla because he wouldn't be able to move about like he does on film unless he's:

Significantly stronger than an equivalent smaller cousin, gorilla (strength comes from cross-sectional muscle fiber area mixed with how well those muscles can activate (nervous system coordination) and an ample amount of energy). Since Kong is much bigger, his cross-sectional area is going to be much smaller relative to the entire package. This is why you can't have giant-ass humans running around like it's nothing: our strength would not scale with our bodies. There was a website that goes through this logic with diagrams, numbers, and geometric figures. Explained this much better than I did. It's a good read. I could not find the website. But, basically, Kong defies that so he's not the same as a regular gorilla, anatomically and physiologically.

So, in order for Kong to move like he does, he has to be proportionally stronger (rather, his muscle cells do) than a gorilla.

In additional, to keep his joints from collapsing into a gushy mass anytime he does something athletic (like, I dunno, jumping and landing), his body tissues have to be much stronger and much denser. That would explain quite a bit. Like why he doesn't splatter when falling from that building like any other mammal would or how he can jump about without turning his joints into spaghetti sauce when he lands.

That does help the Kong side of the debate.

Originally posted by Robtard

Why is a close quarter fight "contrived", but them starting at a great distance where Prime has every advantage and Kong is scripted to not attack but instead posture about? Seems very biased, imo.

gimping and scripting is all they have.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
probably true

but there are a gang of clowns in this thread who would have you believe that prime would beat kong sans weapons in a fighting pit because hes that strong and kong is apparently made of jello.

and to them i say:

OK. I see your point loud and clear, and i won't dispute that an ape of that size would be able to put some very real damage on Prime. I'm actually becoming easily convinced that if they were in a closed in cage type of environment that Kong would more than likely come out on top. Long range and out in the open not so much though.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
gimping and scripting is all they have.

Those tactics always ruin debates 🙁

Originally posted by Master Han
...yes, you did. You ignored my pointing out Prime has ripped apart metal transformers.

OMG so what?

You're projecting human level intellect to Kong. He'd have to immediately recognize Prime's threat as a ranged combatant and go for his arms, rather than doing what he usually does, taking a few seconds to roar and intimidate before going for a wild gallop. 'cause, you know, he's not entirely sentient.

So you know nothing about Gorillas then?
Ok. 🙂

In what reasonable scenario would Prime and Kong start fighting from 5 meters away? Prime has locator technology, and he's certainly hearing Kong's approach.

..yet he couldn't locate Megatron behind him in the forest OR tell where Sam was...? (He had to go on a big "Sam where are you" one allowing Megatron to kill him) GTFOOH 😂

That was just one instance of Prime being caught by surprise.

Furthermore, even if Kong somehow manages to close the distance; about as likely as Joe Bloggs is to beat a gunman, Prime still has these:

which we see him using to chop transformers in half with single strokes

Chopping TFS. So what? Mikaela chopped Frenzy with a building site saw...
And Sam kicked his head off into the distance.
And Kong is WAY bigger and more powerful than Sam.

indeed, all he needs to do is to get one free arm, even temporarily, and blast Kong's face off at close range. He's obviously a better fighter than Kong, and could possibly roll/evade Kong's maneuvers for just the split second needed to shoot him.

Hes not a better fighter than Kong H2H.
Prime would have been screwed with no weapons against 3x Grimlocks. Epspeclally if he had to hold Sam whilst fighting like Kong did Anne.
----

So, in conclusion, the only scenario in which Kong conceivably comes out on top is if you put them in a ridiculous and contrived scenario (ie., immediate close quarters), and presume that Kong magically knows how to take Prime down with human-level efficiency and intelligence.

So in conclusion, you are ignoring anything you dont like. Therefore your post is easily dismissable.
Cry more. 🙂

Originally posted by Robtard
No, I didn't; I directly replied to that question with:

And, as I pointed out, you did not address Prime's feat of ripping apart metal transformers. Or that he can tank depleted uranium rounds and missile strikes.

If we're going to script that Kong won't attack a robot but instead do his instinctual gorilla tactics of roaring and chest thumping, then we MUST apply the same standards to Prime. Prime's a hero and respects life, he wouldn't just shoot Kong dead, he'd try to humanely incapacitate him first. He'd get his ass kicked here trying.

"We will kill them all." 😉

But your analogy doesn't work. Prime can go all out and fight to kill if he wants to; and presumably, in a fight scenario, you can't rig it so that only one combatant wants to do the killing. Kong, on the other hand, isn't stupid by choice; he isn't even smart enough to understand the concept of intelligence. Claiming he could tactically disarm Prime is like claiming he could construct a nuclear bomb before the fight and drop it from his custom made airship.

But, let me throw you a bone and presume that Kong magically knows to immediately charge in and evade Prime's guns.

Prime still has guns. Just how many times out of 1000 do you think the unarmed guy beats the gunman?

No scenario was listed in the OP. So the fight could start from up close as easily as far away. The fair thing to do is have two matches. One starting at a distance; the other up close.

If the two were to encounter one another, Prime's tactical awareness, and presumably his technological assets, would allow him to see Kong coming from quite the while away. To drop them right next to each other would have no rational basis beyond your wanting Kong to win.

And, yet again, if we generously go with your case, Prime still wins.

Did you not watch Kong juggle a white-girl while keeping her safe and fending off three opponents? Kong is extremely agile, aware of his surroundings and a very capable fighter.

Good for him. Prime just needs to move his arm slightly, and Kong's head comes off. He has a giant energy sword, and massive guns built into his body. Prime has oneshot potential; Kong does not. If they wrestle, Kong will have to kill Prime instantly, or he dies.

Why is a close quarter fight "contrived", but them starting at a great distance where Prime has every advantage and Kong is scripted to not attack but instead posture about? Seems very biased, imo.

I just explained it to you; Prime couldn't possibly allow himself to get in the position you wish him to be in, because he's a combat vet, and has "technology".

So, Prime has the opportunity to oneshot Kong when he's ape-charging.
Prime has the opportunity to oneshot Kong when they're wrestling.
Prime has the opportunity to one-slice Kong's head off when they're wrestling.

The odds are very, very, very long against Kong that he'll pull off a win here.

Originally posted by Master Han
And, as I pointed out, you did not address Prime's feat of ripping apart metal transformers. Or that he can tank depleted uranium rounds and missile strikes.

"We will kill them all." 😉

But your analogy doesn't work. Prime can go all out and fight to kill if he wants to; and presumably, in a [b]fight scenario, you can't rig it so that only one combatant wants to do the killing. Kong, on the other hand, isn't stupid by choice; he isn't even smart enough to understand the concept of intelligence. Claiming he could tactically disarm Prime is like claiming he could construct a nuclear bomb before the fight and drop it from his custom made airship.

But, let me throw you a bone and presume that Kong magically knows to immediately charge in and evade Prime's guns.

Prime still has guns. Just how many times out of 1000 do you think the unarmed guy beats the gunman?

If the two were to encounter one another, Prime's tactical awareness, and presumably his technological assets, would allow him to see Kong coming from quite the while away. To drop them right next to each other would have no rational basis beyond your wanting Kong to win.

And, yet again, if we generously go with your case, Prime still wins.

Good for him. Prime just needs to move his arm slightly, and Kong's head comes off. He has a giant energy sword, and massive guns built into his body. Prime has oneshot potential; Kong does not. If they wrestle, Kong will have to kill Prime instantly, or he dies.

I just explained it to you; Prime couldn't possibly allow himself to get in the position you wish him to be in, because he's a combat vet, and has "technology".

So, Prime has the opportunity to oneshot Kong when he's ape-charging.
Prime has the opportunity to oneshot Kong when they're wrestling.
Prime has the opportunity to one-slice Kong's head off when they're wrestling.

The odds are very, very, very long against Kong that he'll pull off a win here. [/B]

My copy and paste still stands, you're desperately trying to avoid that your previous "science" of why Prime (weight) would be stronger no longer works.

In regards to hated enemies the Decepticons who want to murder humanity, life which he hopes dear 🙂

I see, so in this fight you're dictating that Prime can just go all out and disregard his character makeup here, but Kong has to posture about and do ape stuff. Silly and biased.

Focus was right.

BTW, I still think it's Prime's fight to lose, but the gimping and clown low-balling of Kong is poor tactics.

Pretty much the only scenario in which Kong has a chance is if it's some kind of closed-arena H2H fight and Prime can not access any of his weapons whatsoever. Of course, at that point it would be a blatant gimp scenario and not even worth discussing.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Pretty much the only scenario in which Kong has a chance is if it's some kind of closed-arena H2H fight and Prime can not access any of his weapons whatsoever. Of course, at that point it would be a blatant gimp scenario and not even worth discussing.

How is giving both combatants no weapons gimping? 😂

So in your mind, McClane with a gun vs Bauer with nothing isn't a gimp?

Originally posted by Robtard
My copy and paste still stands, you're desperately trying to avoid that your previous "science" of why Prime (weight) would be stronger no longer works.

What is it with you and your obsession with grudges over the actual arguments? I don't recall making that argument, but if I did, then maybe I was wrong. IDK; I probably abandoned it, because I found better arguments.

But if you like, fine I concede that Kong is heavier, and that I was wrong about that particular point. Happy? My overall argument is no worse for wear. It doesn't matter one bit; and it's not in very good sport that you focus disproportionately on the least relevant topics. It sort of implies that you don't have any argument for the rest.

I see, so in this fight you're dictating that Prime can just go all out and disregard his character makeup here, but Kong has to posture about and do ape stuff.

Silly, Prime's respect for life is a choice, Kong's lack of intellect is not. By your logic, Prime could just build a star destroyer and vape Kong from orbit.

But you clearly never bothered to read my post in any detail because I gave you that point for the sake of convenience, and pointed out that Prime still would win.

Focus was right.

You know, Robtard, you're much too smart to not realize that your reply casually ignored 95% of the contentions and cherry picked the most vulnerable, but least important points.

Like, you never bothered to address the fact that Prime has a giant energy sword, or that he can shoot Kong even if they engage in close quarters. You're outmatched here. Give it up.

Originally posted by Robtard
How is giving both combatants no weapons gimping? 😂

Prime's guns are built into his body.

Originally posted by Robtard

I see, so in this fight you're dictating that Prime can just go all out and disregard his character makeup here, but Kong has to posture about and do ape stuff. Silly and biased.

"laugh" What's silly and biased is you trying to make Optimus Prime into a retard so he'll just let Kong kill him without any instinct of self-preservation, just so he can be "merciful" What a load of bullshit.

Also, Optimus has killed plenty of Decepticons. Why would he have trouble killing another combatant?

And trying to gimp characters via PIS/CIS in debates is pretty pathetic (it would be like saying Steve Urkel could beat Superman because Supes wanted to be merciful) and signifies the bottom of the barrel of Team Kong's argument.

Originally posted by Robtard
How is giving both combatants no weapons gimping? 😂

So in your mind, McClane with a gun vs Bauer with nothing isn't a gimp?

It's not the same thing by a long shot. McClane's gun isn't built into his physiology. If McClane could morph parts of his body into guns like She, The Ultimate Weapon, then no, I wouldn't consider that a gimp.

Hey Lestov, the 'fight in character' angle wasn't brought in by the Kong side 🙂

Originally posted by Lestov16
It's not the same thing by a long shot. McClane's gun isn't built into his physiology. If McClane could morph parts of his body into guns like She, The Ultimate Weapon, then no, I wouldn't consider that a gimp.

It's the same thing. Prime's gun is still a weapon.

Weapons have been added and taken away in fights in here many a time.

Originally posted by Master Han
And, as I pointed out, you did not address Prime's feat of ripping apart metal transformers. Or that he can tank depleted uranium rounds and missile strikes.

"We will kill them all." 😉

Show footage of a clearly marked DU round being shot at him and him tanking it.
Funny how you have Prime down as a "we will kill them all" Rambo big balls unber invincible figthing god, but he had to let thousands of humas die in chicago die and then sneak into the city after an elaborate ploy to satiate the Deceps rather than going in and killing them WITHOUT the help of NEST...

But your analogy doesn't work. Prime can go all out and fight to kill if he wants to; and presumably, in a [b]fight scenario, you can't rig it so that only one combatant wants to do the killing. Kong, on the other hand, isn't stupid by choice; he isn't even smart enough to understand the concept of intelligence. Claiming he could tactically disarm Prime is like claiming he could construct a nuclear bomb before the fight and drop it from his custom made airship.
[quote]
Ripping his arms off is tactical enough.

[quote]
But, let me throw you a bone and presume that Kong magically knows to immediately charge in and evade Prime's guns.

Prime still has guns. Just how many times out of 1000 do you think the unarmed guy beats the gunman?

If the two were to encounter one another, Prime's tactical awareness, and presumably his technological assets, would allow him to see Kong coming from quite the while away. To drop them right next to each other would have no rational basis beyond your wanting Kong to win.

He is aware of Kong's tactics?
Cause if not, he may need to read some Sun Tzu.

Good for him. Prime just needs to move his arm slightly, and Kong's head comes off. He has a giant energy sword, and massive guns built into his body. Prime has oneshot potential; Kong does not. If they wrestle, Kong will have to kill Prime instantly, or he dies.

I just explained it to you; Prime couldn't possibly allow himself to get in the position you wish him to be in, because he's a combat vet, and has "technology".

So, Prime has the opportunity to oneshot Kong when he's ape-charging.
Prime has the opportunity to oneshot Kong when they're wrestling.
Prime has the opportunity to one-slice Kong's head off when they're wrestling.

The odds are very, very, very long against Kong that he'll pull off a win here. [/B]

And the other way of looking at it: he may miss.
Prime wont be doing anything except getting torn apart of they go to wrestling.

The odds of Prime winning are slim.
He he runs rolls or flies off into the sky, he withdraws and loses. If he fights Kong close hes screwed.

Robtard: By the OP. You aren't the OP. The parameters do not state Prime has his built in guns and swords surgically removed. Prime shoots Kong, or holds his energy sword out and impales him. It doesn't matter what distance; being armed is difficult to beat.

If you want to argue H2H, either concede the original OP unconditionally, or start another thread. You don't dictate the fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
😂

So in your mind, McClane with a gun vs Bauer with nothing isn't a gimp?

But they weren't in this fight. It's pretty pathetic when you have to rewrite the OP's entire thread scenario to script Kong's win.