Odin w/ Destroyer Armor vs Darkseid w/ Entropy Aegis Armor

Originally posted by Allankles
You pick and choose little elements here and there that don't even qualify as concrete evidence. What is concrete is that DS created a singularity with his destructive energies. What is concrete is that time and space only crumpled upon DS' active involvement, nothing of that nature was shown to happen before FC 5.

Originally posted by Allankles
Which doesn't coincide with anything else you've mentioned or don't you see that? Also Miracle states (in the same scan) that Darkseid is dragging down the universe, i.e. he's using a singularity to crumple space-time towards Earth where the ALE awaits its victims.

I don't know what's difficult to grasp there.

Your argument is wholly based upon a poor or misleading grasp of basic sentence construction. Just because Darkseid is the subject, does not disprove that the ALE is also involved. Example: "Thanos replaced Eternity's importance with his own." Do you have to interpret that sentence as: "Oh, well... they only mention Thanos, so it must only be Thanos' personal power." Does that sentence as constructed, completely disprove that the Infinity Gauntlet was involved? Absolutely not. Neither do the statements being thrown at me. That's why absolutely nothing you guys have said so far does a single thing to disprove my assertions.

HOWEVER, when you read the statements I've been throwing at you, they are completely dispositive of Darkseid's personal power being involved. Why? "It was exactly 5:30 PM EST. That's when time, space... everything cracked." Why is that completely dispositive of Darkseid using only his personal power? Because Darkseid hadn't manfifested yet. And the occurrence is simultaneous with the timing of Mokkari releasing the ALE on the internet.

Not only that, regular human beings shoot friggin Omega Finder Beams out of their eyes when possessed by the ALE. How much more obvious can you get, that the ALE isn't just mind-control? It actually makes all existence you. And that directly coincides that all reality/space/time would crumple onto you and you'd be all that's left. How hard is this to grasp? No amount of equivocation or errors in reading sentences will change this. The ALE is more than mind-control.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So it's only hyperbole when we're talking about the ALE. But it's not hyperbole when we're talking about Darkseid? I doubt you would stand there and dictate that. Now turn that type of logic back on yourself. All the statements where Darkseid is the subject of a certain feat, i.e. his destructive emanations could be hyperbole or literary device. Or more simply, it's just the author not pandering to his audience. When Thanos obtained the InfinityGauntlet, Starlin didn't whack you over the head with statements such as, "By virtue of his possession of the Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos replaced Eternity's place." It's just obvious from the story that it was by virtue of the Infinity Gauntlet. None of the statements, even when taken in their clearest and plainest meaning is absolutely dispositive that the ALE is more than mind-control. However, we have statements, when taken in their clearest and plainest meaning and actual scenes that are completely dispositive of the ALE only being mind-control. That's the point. And it's obvious.

Anyways, it seems to me that your so sure on your opinion and interpretation, that you pretty much took it as fact. From my viewpoint though, you overemphasized a minor detail and gave it more significance than what it's worth. Yes things don't have to black or white, but there was not a single thing in that scan that would be concrete proof to declare whether it screwed with the time space continuum. That's you have to distinguish vague hyperbole from, a literal piece of context.

And one of the few things that holds relevance to me on the scope of Ds's power, is the fact that he caused the destruction of the multiverse. Say whatever the hell you want about it, but a skyfather or even a low level abstract, don't cause the destruction of an entire Mv, just because their essence fades away.

No. Considering the ALE is presented as making Darkseid master of all existence and allowing all denizens to be his body as stated by he, himself, just no. It's speculation in the face of the purely obvious. It's so obvious, I shouldn't even have to entertain this.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
ALE is not just mind-control.

Who said the ALE is mind control? The ALE erases free will and enslaves soul it's not just mind control.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It doesn't mesh with yours either. In fact, it outright contradicts yours. Which is the point. Ray's statements don't mesh with yours. In fact, it outright contradicts yours. None of your cherry-picked statements contradict mine.

Nothing supports the ALE folding space and time. Simple as that. When Mokkari infected the internet, again the ALE transformed the internet into a god weapon, whether it affected time or otherwise we know space and time were not crumpled by this action.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your argument is wholly based upon a poor or misleading grasp of basic sentence construction. Just because Darkseid is the subject, does not disprove that the ALE is also involved. Example: "Thanos replaced Eternity's importance with his own." Do you have to interpret that sentence as: "Oh, well... they only mention Thanos, so it must only be Thanos' personal power." Does that sentence as constructed, completely disprove that the Infinity Gauntlet was involved? Absolutely not. Neither do the statements being thrown at me. That's why absolutely nothing you guys have said so far does a single thing to disprove my assertions.

Except the ALE is not the infinity gauntlet which has it's clearly defined capabilities. The ALE has never been attributted with the formation of singularities. There's nothing misleading there, if anything you seem to be mislead by a few comments and you fail to grasp the big picture.

You want to relate the ALE to the 4th world's destruction, when no mention of the specifics of how the war was ended are made. You want to relate the singualirty to the ALE when no such relation was made. I like to deal with things as they are presented, not to make interpretations without the story elements for support.

We've been through this before, so I don't know why you feel compelled to make bad comparisons like the IG.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
HOWEVER, when you read the statements I've been throwing at you, they are completely dispositive of Darkseid's personal power being involved. Why? "It was exactly 5:30 PM EST. That's when time, space... everything cracked." Why is that completely dispositive of Darkseid using only his personal power? Because Darkseid hadn't manfifested yet. And the occurrence is simultaneous with the timing of Mokkari releasing the ALE on the internet.

Except time space never folded at 5:30, time space never crumpled at 5:30 it crumpled after DS had fully manifested in Turpin. When his full manifestation had arrived on Earth and it's impact formed cracks across all sectors of space. You don't see the big picture.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not only that, regular human beings shoot friggin Omega Finder Beams out of their eyes when possessed by the ALE. How much more obvious can you get, that the ALE isn't just mind-control? It actually makes all existence you. And that directly coincides that all reality/space/time would crumple onto you and you'd be all that's left. How hard is this to grasp? No amount of equivocation or errors in reading sentences will change this. The ALE is more than mind-control.

No.

The ALE enslaves souls, and the flesh becomes Darkseid's body, and I'm sorry I don't see where this supports the ALE being able to create singularities? The ALE allows DS to enslave all sentient beings, it is mathematical proof of his mastery over all sentient life. Nothing is contradicted there with FC.

Allankles: Your faulty use of sentence interpretation doesn't fly. It's this damn simple: Grant Morrison says Darkseid's mastery abruptly and directly causes the cosmic war that destroys the 4th World. It's this damn simple: Mokkari presses a button to release the ALE and this happens:

Just because you say time and space wasn't collapsing at 5:30 PM doesn't change the fact that the ALE cracked time and space. And if the ALE can crack time and space, isn't it ridiculous to assume that Darkseid then never used the ALE to actually collpase it? Had he the personal power to collapse the Multiverse, why in god's name would he wait until he masters the ALE to do so? it's obvious the ALE does more than enslave souls. It makes everything him, to the point that normal human beings start shooting Omega Finder Beams out of their eyes. Get over it.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Anyways, it seems to me that your so sure on your opinion and interpretation, that you pretty much took it as fact. From my viewpoint though, you overemphasized a minor detail and gave it more significance than what it's worth. Yes things don't have to black or white, but there was not a single thing in that scan that would be concrete proof to declare whether it screwed with the time space continuum. That's you have to distinguish hyperbole from a vague, yet literal piece of context.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
And one of the few things that holds relevance to me on the scope of Ds's power, is the fact that he caused the destruction of the multiverse. Say whatever the hell you want about it, but a skyfather or even a low level abstract, don't cause the destruction of an entire Mv, just because their essence fades away.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
I'm sorry, but wouldn't that help the case that the Ale is only mind-control more then if it wasn't? 😬 As stated in the story that Ale made all of earth's population one with Ds, that would mean that they were all merely extension to Darkseid's being. When think about it, the concept of the Ale makes alot more sense. It's domination on levels that no one short of a Higher power(as in the Presence or the Oaa) could attain. The ability to cease complete control over one's will. Considering Darkseid, a god himself, can't achieve such a feat without it clearly paints a vivid image of how great it is. So to sum it up, it was merely the remote controller to his tv set, rather than the batteries to his remote controller.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Allankles: Your faulty use of sentence interpretation doesn't fly. It's this damn simple: Grant Morrison says Darkseid's mastery abruptly and directly causes the cosmic war that destroys the 4th World. It's this damn simple: Mokkari presses a button to release the ALE and this happens:

Just because you say time and space wasn't collapsing at 5:30 PM doesn't change the fact that the ALE cracked time and space. And if the ALE can crack time and space, isn't it ridiculous to assume that Darkseid then never used the ALE to actually collpase it?

You forgot about this little bit of info here. DS's full manifestation on Earth causes cracks to form across all sectors of space. Also consider that he formed a personal singularity to draw in all space and time without the ALE being stated as the tool being used. You're arguing for a function the ALE has never been stated to have.

Ofcourse I'm only using the concrete story elements here, as they were presented. No mention of the ALE breaking time space let alone folding and crumpling it.

Originally posted by Allankles
You forgot about this little bit of info here. DS's full manifestation on Earth causes cracks to form across all sectors of space. Also consider that he formed a personal singularity to draw in all space and time without the ALE being stated as the tool being used. You're arguing for a function the ALE has never been stated to have.

Ofcourse I'm only using the concrete story elements here, as they were presented. No mention of the ALE breaking time space let alone folding and crumpling it.

There was no mentioning of IG in the sentence that described when Thanos overtook Eternity's place in the universe either. Yeah. Except it is much more likely that it was the IG because it was stated and depicted elsewhere that the IG could rearrange reality. Now... it was never actually stated or shown that the IG could overtake Eternity prior to it happening, but the other statements/depictions make it clear it most likely wasn't Thanos' personal power. Especially considering that the whole story is premised and was precipitated by Thanos' obtaining the IG.

There was no mentioning of the ALE in the sentence that described the singularity that space/time was crumpling into. Yeah. Except it is much more likely that it was the ALE because it was stated and depicted elsewhere that the ALE can crack time/space. Now... it was never actually stated or shown that the ALE could crumple time/space with a singularity prior to it happening, but the other statements/depictions make it clear it most likely wasn't Darkseid's personal power. Especially considering that the whole story is premised and was precipitated by Darkseid mastering the ALE.

That's not vague hyperbole. At all. You cannot interpret that sentence along with the coincidence of Mokkari releasing the ALE as anything other than the ALE cracking time and space without Darkseid's personal involvement. Whereas you can easily attribute all other statements about Darkseid's "destructive emanations," or "his singularity" as relying on the ALE. Same thing as "Thanos' infinite power." No, that doesn't necessarily mean Thanos' personal power is infinite. It could and obviously means he is in possession of infinite power because he wields the Infinity Gauntlet.

Of course that is what a lot of people say. How could Darkseid himself cause the destruction of the Multiverse? Well. As I already agreed, Final Crisis is the first time we actually see Darkseid. The slate is wiped clean. Preconceptions do not matter. So taking Final Crisis on it's own is the proper thing to do. What is unbelievably hypocritical, is that the ALE itself cannot break past preconceptions. That the plain meaning of words and scans have to be outright ignored or labeled as hyperbole to preserve this preconception that the ALE is only mind-control.

Another ironic point, is that in the past, the ALE was shown to be more than just mind-control to boot! Ridiculous.

How did you possibly end up concluding that last sentence? You concluded the exact opposite of where your reasoning was heading which is encapsulated by the underlined sentence. If the Multiverse is a tv set. And Darkseid wants to change the channels or turn it off. Can Darkseid as a remote control do it on his own power? Or does he needs batteries like the ALE? Well considering he required the ALE to wage his war on the Fourth World and considering that Mokkari himself started turning the tv off with the ALE... it becomes obvious that Darkseid used, if not outright required, batteries like the ALE. [/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B][u][b]You're arguing for a power that Darkseid has never been stated to have.

^ Alternate universe, no thanks. That wasn't the real Darkseid as we've already established. Classic Surfer and classic Thor have temporal effecting powers. Neither of them can collapse the entire Multiverse without an enormous amp. Gee. That sounds familiar. All this is beyond the point, since Mokkari cracks time and space by releasing the ALE on the internet.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
This how your argument is faulty.....your trying to apply the same logic to the occurences in the infinity gauntlet to Fc's. The Ig unlike Ale, had a clear and established power level. Because of the feats that it displayed on panel, any narrative statement made about it, prior to after it, would be valid. That's why a narrator's statement shouldn't be given much consideration, unless it's supported by a clear cut illustration. Hence why it would be absurd to stand by a narrative statement, when what's being depicted on panel is the exact opposite of what appears on panel. If it was logical to debate in such a manner, I could start pulling a bunch of exaggerational statements from my ass, or even metaphors from stories featuring my favorite characters, for the sole purpose of wanking them. But of course...it's not....and Darkseid's narrative descriptions are more credible than the latter, because unlike the Ale, we've had an actual glimpse of what he's capable of on panel.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Please don't turn this into one of those "they did this thing to me I didn't like, so I'm going do it to others" type situations. When you do that, you end up generalizing and giving certain things inaccurate labels. There's not a shred of conclusive proof that would make the ideal that the Ale effected time and space, a plausible one. Like I said, if we could all use vague narration to determine something, anyone could make a silly argument for the fave character. That's why "hyperbole" is frowned down upon

That isn't vague narration. "Darkseid's destructive emanations" like "Thanos' infinite power" is a vague narration to describe what is the ALE in the former and the IG in the latter.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
You completely missed my point......😬 Ale is mind control unlike anything seen in comics. No Spectre, No Living Tribunal, No Eternity, or whoever the hell else, has the jurisdiction to dominate free will to the degree that the Ale can. That's why I said it was more akin to his remote control than say the batteries to his remote. It doesn't provide him with a power amp, it merely gives him the ability to dominate(control) ones will(tv set).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]You're arguing for a power that Darkseid has never been stated to have. Stop the blatant hypocrisy.

There was no mentioning of IG in the sentence that described when Thanos overtook Eternity's place in the universe either. Yeah. Except it is much more likely that it was the IG because it was stated and depicted elsewhere that the IG could rearrange reality. Now... it was never actually stated or shown that the IG could overtake Eternity prior to it happening, but the other statements/depictions make it clear it most likely wasn't Thanos' personal power. Especially considering that the whole story is premised and was precipitated by Thanos' obtaining the IG.

There was no mentioning of the ALE in the sentence that described the singularity that space/time was crumpling into. Yeah. Except it is much more likely that it was the ALE because it was stated and depicted elsewhere that the ALE can crack time/space. Now... it was never actually stated or shown that the ALE could crumple time/space with a singularity prior to it happening, but the other statements/depictions make it clear it most likely wasn't Darkseid's personal power. Especially considering that the whole story is premised and was precipitated by Darkseid mastering the ALE. [/B]

From what I got though, it was Darkseid's fall that caused the singularity, and space and time to crumple and causing a hole at the base of creation.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Alternate universe, no thanks. That wasn't the real Darkseid as we've already established. Classic Surfer and classic Thor have temporal effecting powers. Neither of them can collapse the entire Multiverse without an enormous amp. Gee. That sounds familiar. All this is beyond the point, since Mokkari cracks time and space by releasing the ALE on the internet.

Ray's statement's, Cain's/Spectre's statements, the human beings' firing of the Omega Finder Beams and Morrison's statements all establish that the ALE is more than mind-control. As such, any narrative statement that seems to attribute something to Darkseid personally, could and probably should be attributed to the ALE. There is no "on-panel Darkseid crushing Multiverse" scene at all. You only have narrative statements. Don't exaggerate your position.

That isn't vague narration. "Darkseid's destructive emanations" like "Thanos' infinite power" is a vague narration to describe what is the ALE in the former and the IG in the latter.
It also gives him the ability to have human beings shoot Omega Finder Beams from their eyes as if he's shooting them. It also allowed Mokkari to crack time/space before Darkseid even manifested. It also precipitated the cosmic war that destroyed the 4th World. ALE is more than mind-control.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
.........🤨 foundations is canon, Ds was even returned to his timeline after the story. His removal from the time stream caused the near destruction of the Dcu.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
[insert face palm picture].....Jesus Christ man, now your resorting to restating your previous argument, that I've already addressed? Please lets not make this go in circles. Re posting a scan isn't going to help either......trying to make a relation to the multiverse scene and the time space continuum ordeal, reeks of all kinds of crap.😬 The fact that Supes had to wish the multiverse back to how it was, makes my case more plausible.

And do you even remember what Superman used to make his wish? The Miracle Machine. And do you remember how the Miracle Machine works?! It calculates the Life Equation:

Thanks for reminding me of another reason why the Anti-Life Equation should be seen as more than mere mind-control and attributable to the damage done to the multiverse: Because it's opposite, the calculation of the Life Equation actually restores the Multiverse!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
🙄 Once again, Oe was derived from Darkseid and not the Ale. Under the influence of Ds, the people were an extension to Ds's being, meaning that they were one with him, as in he could make them do whatever he wants by commanding them to. When they used the Omega beams, they were just a conduit of Darkseid. Why is it so hard to understand. No offense but this post reminds me of some of the "debates" I use to have with Quanchi. Rather than making proper retorts, he would summarize a bunch of previous statements and do so even after his argument was debunked.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Give me a break. You're proving my god damn argument. The ALE can make people conduits of a power that only Darkseid himself has EVER exhibited! That proves it's more than just simple mind-control! Do you even realize what you're saying?!

You're the one who seems to have a problem understanding the ALE and regardless of how relentless you are you seem to missing the gist of it.

The ALE allows DS to enslave souls and erase the free will of any being, what this means in practical terms is that all sentient life affected by the ALE are extensions of DS, all become his body, his church i.e. he can shoot the OE through their eyes because their eyes, their bodies, their very souls have become DS; they are governed by his will alone.

That's why I told you it's not simply mind control, but the enslavement of the soul and the complete removal of free will.

It doesn't become anything more than that. It doesn't amp DS, it's not the infinity gauntlet or the cosmic cube.

It was simply that DS had descended to a lower dimension in his full manifestation. Afterall, his arrival alone cracked space and time.

Read the entirety of FC to gain a clearer picture, DS plan was to become the one god by replacing the gift of the old (true) god (free will), with his own gift (anti-life).

True I don't think you both disagree about the ALE enslaving souls and making them slaves and making them Darkseids body, One just think it does more then that. Oracle talks about only hearing half of the ALE and she was very disoriented and what she saw was really worst then what she thought. I believe she was beginning to see Darkseid manifest in front of her something like what we saw in 5. The last time we saw Darkseids avatar was in 3, and it had just died and DS must have been moving into Turpin like what we saw at the beginning of 4 when he began his ascension. The Miracle Machine (Life Equation) was used to repair the Multiverse correct but mainly because DS presence was there even WW who was freed from the ALE stated that "what used to be meaningful and significant is Losing importance".. 😮‍💨

What is so hard to understand. DS Failing is what caused the singularity and the black hole not something DS created under his own power. The war cracked time and space not DS. The ALE cracked time and space not DS. It's all there in FC what is the problem? So, if it simply enslaves people and is mind control then how exactly did it CRACK space and time. You keep on saying it didn't crumple it but then how did it even CRACK it if it's simply enslaving people? THe more logical conclusion is that it can do a lot more then just enslaving and mind control and that DS mastery of it allowed him to CRUMPLE space and time instead of it just cracking when spoken by others. For God's sake his FALLING caused all the events and the ball to start rolling which had nothing to do with his power at all.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're the one who seems to have a problem understanding the ALE and regardless of how relentless you are you seem to missing the gist of it.

The ALE allows DS to enslave souls and erase the free will of any being, what this means in practical terms is that all sentient life affected by the ALE are extensions of DS, all become his body, his church i.e. he can shoot the OE through their eyes because their eyes, their bodies, their very souls have become DS; they are governed by his will alone.

Even if I can control your will utterly, I can't very well make you do things you couldn't do on your own. Darkseid is the only one who can wield the Omega Beams. For him to control your mind and make you start shooting Omega Beams involves more than just replacing will. It has to do with that person changing. And as is obvious from the very nature of the ALE, it makes you master of existence, thus all becomes you.

Originally posted by Allankles
It was simply that DS had descended to a lower dimension in his full manifestation. Afterall, his arrival alone cracked space and time.

Originally posted by kevdude
True I don't think you both disagree about the ALE enslaving souls and making them slaves and making them Darkseids body, One just think it does more then that. Oracle talks about only hearing half of the ALE and she was very disoriented and what she saw was really worst then what she thought. I believe she was beginning to see Darkseid manifest in front of her something like what we saw in 5. The last time we saw Darkseids avatar was in 3, and it had just died and DS must have been moving into Turpin like what we saw at the beginning of 4 when he began his ascension. The Miracle Machine (Life Equation) was used to repair the Multiverse correct but mainly because DS presence was there even WW who was freed from the ALE stated that "what used to be meaningful and significant is Losing importance".. 😮‍💨

LE = fixes Multiverse, ALE = _____ (fill in the blank).

Simplistic? Maybe when taken on its own. But you have Ray's statements, Cain/Spectre's statements, Mr. Miracle's statements. It's obvious what the answer is. And it's downright inarguable that the ALE is more than just mind-control.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What did I write? That isn't even the true Darkseid. Why are youguys so quick to use stuff outside of Final Crisis and heckle me for pointing to things outside Final Crisis? I might as well use Cosmic Odyssey and quote you how the damn Anti-Life Entity threatens to destroy the entire universe. At least that adventure didn't happen in an alternate universe. Jebus. Stick to Final Crisis. you venture outside of it, my arguments are stronger, not weaker.
Collapsing space/time = crumpling the Multiverse. Don't be ridiculous. They equated the two in Final Crisis.

Besides, that wasn't my point, you completely misaddressed me. I was referring to your response to Allan, about how Ds is capable of no such temporal effecting abilties, when in fact his damn avatar could do it. And yes, avatars are still valid to Fc Ds, seeing how their weaker manisfestations of the true "Dark God" Seid. 🙂

Nobody argues this:

And do you even remember what Superman used to make his wish? The Miracle Machine. And do you remember how the Miracle Machine works?! It calculates the Life Equation:

Thanks for reminding me of another reason why the Anti-Life Equation should be seen as more than mere mind-control and attributable to the damage done to the multiverse: Because it's opposite, the calculation of the Life Equation actually restores the Multiverse!

Give me a break. You're proving my god damn argument. The ALE can make people conduits of a power that only Darkseid himself has EVER exhibited! That proves it's more than just simple mind-control! Do you even realize what you're saying?!

That's why I made that remote controller analogy earlier ago. Darkseid is not the remote controller that requires a power source such as batteries(Ale). The Ale was the remote, that Darkseid needed in order to manipulate the tv set(the people). It doesn't act as a power source akin to the Ig, instead gives him the jurisdiction to take over and corrupt anyone he desires. That's why it's called the Anti life equation and not the Anti life gauntlet. 😉

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Lol, yeah it wasn't the true Ds, it was an avatar, which ironically says alot more about the feat. 🙄 Oh and Cosmic Odyssey? Even if you wanted to use it, that shit is [b]IRRELEVENT and retconned. And let me correct you once again, it was IT WAS NOT A ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. Don't even try to drag me into a silly debate over that crap, Darkseid experianced it and was returned to his proper timeline, with his memory intact.[/b]

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Besides, that wasn't my point, you completely misaddressed me. I was referring to your response to Allan, about how Ds is capable of no such temporal effecting abilties, when in fact his damn avatar could do it. And yes, avatars are still valid to Fc Ds, seeing how their weaker manisfestations of the true "Dark God" Seid. 🙂

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
I'm sorry, but that's not going to cut it.......note how Lex states that it rewrites the laws of physics. That's not quite the same as fixing a devasting blow that Ds put on the time space continuum and the universe. It merely counters the effects of the Ale(the corruption of souls and such).

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Lulz, at you patting yourself on the back and deeming your logic sound. No shit, of course the Ale can unite every being into one with Darkseid. But it's laughable to say the least, to play it off as solidifiable proof to your case. I'll concede on one thing, the Ale isn't simple mind control, it [b]literally makes one surrender his will to the user. Their not just mind slaves, their literally a part of Ds.(note how I bolded literally) However, this detail in no way supports the notion that the Ale was power amp. I really don't see how any one could stand by that theory....it's f#cking ridiculous, considering how one of the main purposes of fc, was to be the revalation of the true Darkseid.[/b]

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
That's why I made that remote controller analogy earlier ago. Darkseid is not the remote controller that requires a power source such as batteries(Ale). The Ale [b]was the remote, that Darkseid needed in order to manipulate the tv set(the people). It doesn't act as a power source akin to the Ig, instead gives him the jurisdiction to take over and corrupt anyone he desires. That's why it's called the Anti life equation and not the Anti life gauntlet. 😉 [/B]

Moot point. I've already made you concede that the ALE is more than just mind-control. But that's not all. Because we both agreed that preconceptions ought to be dispelled, yet you won't even budge when it comes to the ALE. And refusing to accept that the ALE , "an equation that makes you master of all existence," could possibly affect time/space in spite of this scan is simply disingenuous:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

lol. The Anti-life equation is the EMCsquared of despair, not a power up, Morrison's own interpretation. When it is used in Soldiers it preys on Shilo Norman's emotional vulnerabilities. No time displacement powers (that's the OE's domain).

Also we are already told that he cracked space when he descended from the 4th world to Earth.