Dante vs Link

these are quotes I'm pulling from discussing with Terry. So that's why some of them have a certain tone to them. I'll find math and proof later the energy it would take to destroy a moon of that size. Let alone a miniature universe, perhaps just the size of earth inside that moon to be fair. Or some other thing, we can all decide on since it's an infinite on going sky line.

Originally posted by Voyeur
original post

The Pocket Universe, that miniature dimension, is where all that energy and force of explosion went off in. The moon, the shell, just happened to be the physical bubble to this phenomenon.

Link is expelled down to the Field from this force explosion also. Or else if there was no explosion, the moon simply would of "trasmuted into a rainbow" and Link would of fell safely back to the top of clock tower. Not the case. The scene is shown entirely in slow motion. Explosions, do you know much about them? I guess you think lightning comes from the sky too. But we will skip that science lesson for today.

It's like when you light a match, or a fire cracker. The wick ignited by the flame starts from the top and works it way down. This is the same thing in this matter with Majora's energy bursting apart his dimension, and disintegrating the Moon. It's show in slow motion. If it was done quickly, you'd probably just see the moon explode, like when you see other things do so. And most the time things are at the core, this was done some where in the presumed top where Majora had placed the pocket dimension of the final fight.

It's so easy to get mate. And just because he hasn't been shown to do that he can't now? I mean, where is the logic in that. Time line wise, Ocarina of Time is the only time Link existed before Majora's Mask. And they're the same Link, young Link when sent back 7 years to his child hood went to go look for Navi and that is when Majora's Mask takes place. So yeah, in OoT he is never faced with such a matter so he can't show that durability. But here he is now, after that ordeal, and is shown be able to take it. What is so hard for you to understand that. Link isn't a push over mate. As much as you hate Link for some unknown reason, and I don't have a mad boner for him, this feat is pretty amazing and pretty obvious.

( ! )

Lets say the parenthesis represent the moon. And the exclamation point at the top is where you fight Majora. The bottom of it can be the island. And the rest of it is the entire Pocket Universe, which isn't really the hollow cavity of the Moon. It technically isn't hollow, you're just in another dimension. Okay, so this Explosion starts off from the top, you want it to magically go to the middle and start out with a sudden burst from there? It can't. See, the energy has to expel and destroy downwards. And it pops the bubble of a moon, since it existed on a physical plane, containing the pocket universe, and gets eaten up in the very end blast radius. The force inertia ends there. With only enough, reasonable though since he wouldn't weigh much, to expel Link's body and hurl to the fields.

Once again, the rainbow, simply for the happy ending, omg you won effects. If you're going to be pulling on that rainbow thread all day, then you're really stretching for anything to get your little hands on to try and win. I beat you with science and reason, and you have "lolrainbow." Get over yourself. What I say is obvious, you can even bring it a vote.

A rainbow is an optical and meteorological phenomenon that causes a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the Sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere. They take the form of a multicoloured arc, with red on the outer part of the arch and violet on the inner section of the arch.

Not even if something transformed to nothing would it magically make a rainbow. It actually shows evidence that the moon was destroyed, and then the sun beams that would be dominate since the moon isn't there to absorb and reflect them is what produced the rainbow. If you want to be technical.

I explained to you already, the explosion goes off and destroys the pocket universe. It's vast and wide and infintely so. It isn't the span of the length inside the moon, it clearly shows a sky going on for ever. It's another world, separate of the cavity space inside the Moon. The explosion takes place in there, enough to destroy that minature universe, then continue to have enough force to rip apart it's bubble, the moon. And expel Link out to the field.

The Pocket Universe exploded.

The Moon evaporated as an end result to being the physical bubble to this reaction. The moon then technically didn't explode, but an explosion did occur and Link tanked the blast point blank as proof in the video.

Link was expelled to the field from this force.

Moisture already exists in the atmosphere constantly. By your way of thinking, a moon would have to be evaporated and turn into moisture every time you see a rain bow (hahaha omg I'm laughing as I type this at how asinine it sounds)

in conclusion.

Majora became energy and exploded. This force blew-up the miniature dimension. Link was standing next to Majora when this happened. The Moon, acting as a physical bubble, popped. Or simply evaporated/disintegrated from such a forceful blast radius and then the moisture in the normal atmosphere happened to produce a Rain-Bow which was also obviously there for a "happy ending" all is well effect. Link tanked that powerful energy explosion and was expelled down with that force to the fields of Termina.

and on an almost unrelated side note: do you know how a chain reaction works? Explosions can start at one point and react with other things to create more explosions. But that doesn't matter. The Pocket Universe blew up and contained the explosion. The moon simply was destroyed as a result of the after math. Being it an explosion or not, the moon was destroyed as some forceful blast result, due to sounds of an eruption and obvious physical reaction shown in the video when Majora began to glow and start to blow-up.

But if the moon did explode. It started at the top and reacted down wards. Explosions work in multiple variables and facets. Water molecules in such by the way probably existed in that miniature universe, since there was a grassy field, a tree and Majora, so when all that was obliterated, the molecules of moisture in that atmosphere still existed and produced this Rain-bow effect. Along the obvious factor that rain-bows can appear out of air already, and that it was there for a happy ending game play mechanic. You will constantly pull on that "rainbow" thread.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
A couple of things I want to address first hand.

The inverted song of time isn't shown to slow down enemies because that would simply break the game and make it too easy as it goes on as long as you want it to. However, it DOES canonically have that capability as it does slow living beings down. Play the song in a town and the townsfolk move MUCH slower.

Secondly as Voyeur showed with the video, Skull Kid was never actually in the moon at all. The moon sucked in the mask off of him with a beam and then Link jumped in the beam and he too was sucked in. The child inside wearing the mask was an entirely different being inside Majora's created world.

Therefore Link was not aided or helped by anyone to escape following Majora's destruction.

Now on to the post.

The eyes and possibly the genitals would be the only vulnerable parts left. You are still thinking of my example as having human skin. It does not. It has superhuman skin. As explained already, skin harder and more durable than stone. Don't think Wolverine, i.e. skin with human durability but a metallic skeleton. Think Colossus when he takes on his metal form.

As for the moon bit refer to Voyeur's last post.

Now back to the scythes vs yamato bit. Remember, Dante may have skin with human durability, but he still has a superhuman skeleton/muscles/etc on top of the regeneration of course. This couldn't be demonstrated well on a PS2 gaming engine but the scythes obviously did little internal damage and the little that was done was more or less instantly healed. Thus, no display of pain from Dante's part. The Yamato impalement actually hurt him for two reasons: Yamato, being wielded by a much stronger being than those ghouls (Vergil) and being a more powerful blade, actually caused internal damage because of the extra force behind it. Dante's regeneration actually had to really work to repair the damage this time and thus he was in pain. (Linking all the way back to the stamina-regeneration relationship)
--Anyway this brings up another good question...if a normal human wielded the yamato against a stone slab would it still cut through? How much of the feat of cutting through stone is from the sword's make and how much of it depends on the force and strength of the user in question?--

Strength does matter as far as the force applied. Jabbing a needle into your arm is going to hurt much worse than slowly coaxing it in.
Even if a sword is going to go through someone regardless of the force, an equivalent (provided they are still alive anyway) motion with a sword with more force behind it is going to cause more damage and pain via the extra force behind it alone. There would be residual damage to go along with the extra force in contact, I guess we would call that 'splash damage'.

Finally, can the Link hit Dante argument again? Neither of us will come to a consensus on this so I'll just say, yes. He can.

🙂

Just makin sure, didnt know whether it worked canon on enemies.

That was just 1 of my theories about how link could not tank a moon explosion, since obviously you proved it wrong, my other one is correct. about how it was not an explosion. I was a little insecure about trying to go against voyeurs theory of the moon explosion, since i couldnt make any sense of it, and didnt know whether it was right, or complete bs. But yea, he sounded so sure of himself so it was just my normal reaction to assume he does know what hes talking about, which, in that case he doesnt. Jaxx was right, all of voyeurs sayings are all speculation, i almost got tricked by his paragraph to just assume he was right. It simply comes down to the fact that there was no explosion, there was no hint of any explosion, so it would be absurd to think there was an explosion. Unless you can prove it (and i definitely do not take voyuers sayings as proof, even a little) of link tanking a moon explosion, then we cant assume that he has. Speculating is simply not enough.

I still disagree, id say his eyes, never really thought of the genitals, but it counts, his temple, and his neck, but then again since link has not proven any tough skin durability (the moon thing is fail), there is no reason to carry this part on any longer, he would easily be impaled by dante.

And i get what your saying about the stabbing thing, but your thinking of two different scenerios. Blade thickness only really counts before being impaled or not at all. If someone got impaled by yamato, straight through there stomach, and an exact same copy of that person got impaled by one of those scythes in the exact same place, it would nearly hurt the same. Since they both already pierced the skin, i dont know how you say that a more "powerful" blade being yamato would hurt more. What do you mean by the blades "power"? The only difference between the scythe and yamato that would hurt more is yamatos length and thickness, thats it. I know vergil is more powerful, impaling him faster would hurt more, but vergil wasnt faster (he wasnt really trying when he stabbed dante) than the ghouls were, and even if he was, it wasnt so much faster to make dante faint, when blades of maybe a little thinner, by 5 of them at one time, one being directly through the chest, would even out the fact that yamato is a little thicker and longer. This all proves that since the scythes being a more deadly attack than vergils one stab, and dante fainted on vergils attack and not the ghouls, that the only reason he fainted is because had some demonic energy in it or it was pis and in a real fight he wouldnt faint after one normal impalement.

Since link cant, or even think about tanking one of dantes attacks anymore, then thats simply the thread, the only real thing that link had for him was his skin toughness, and since thats gone he could easily be decapitated by dante, and due to quicksilver and his excellent speed advantage, he wins.

To the moon
"The four giants from Clock Town's folklore are the spirits that were trapped inside Odolwa, Goth, Gyorg and TwinMold. Unbeknownst to the townspeople, the troublemaking Skull Kid is the legendary imp who, according to their legend, felt betrayed and abandoned by his giant friends when each went off to protect one of the realms outside Clock Town. Only his friends, the four giants, can put a stop to his mischief and the moon, so invite them to your rematch with the Skull Kid."

-Nintendo POwer official guide.

there, that's to prove that it is an alternate universe.

Moon Dungeons
"When the moon swallows up Link and Tatl, the pair awakens in an alternate reality. Hazy and surreal like a dream, the world that they've entered is a vast and eerie playground for masked children. Masquerading as Odolwa, Goth, Gyorg, TwinMold and Majora, each child has his own dungeon. To explore their worlds, you must offer them your masks as payment"

Originally posted by Voyeur
I posted long enough posts about this before in the Sephiroth vs Link forum but that place is a shit hole.

It's obvious there is a physical reaction, once again, since the place starts to crumble and that shows there is some form of energy, e.g. force behind this "blast of light".

And Link some how went down at this diagonal trajectory from over Clock Tower to an area off in Termina Fields, awakening from a daze. I mean, I know normally when I'm inside a bubble dimension and it just magically disappears, I just fly down down at a diagonal angle to the nearest surrounding myself. Am I right?

Like I said, if yours and Terry's way of thinking was true, and it Majora's dimension simply went away along with the moon and turned into a rain bow, Link would of just fell back on top of clock tower safely and unharmed. Not having to awake from anything.

The Moon was apart of the real word. It was in the sky. So it existed as a physical matter. Majora simply being destroyed and his pocket universe with him, wouldn't have an affect on a physical matter like the moon with out some force of energy with heat or power to be destroyed along with it. Majora didn't create that moon -.-

2. Explosions do not crumble things around it either. The place was part of the moon, which was disappearing, does that make it an explosion? No.

3. Then why is it that we do not see Link fly ANYWHERE when the moon "explodes?" It is not that big, Link would have been visible. What happened? He prolly teleported, or maybe the big ass friendly giants took him there. But you are committing the Hasty Generalization Fallacy, you are taking insufficient evidence to form a conclusion you are claiming is factual.

4. Majora's power was sustaining it, and if I were to speculate, I say the moon went back to space, it appeared to be going up. My theory has no more credibility than yours, but it is still possible, only I do not spout it as fact.

I'll come back and win this some other time. The Moon feat that is, because I have quotes here to back me up later via canon when I want too but in the mean time, Xanatos, cosmic and some others are kicking back and watching YYH :3

Win it?

You know, when you make such ignorant and idiotic posts, it would really do you good to not be an arrogant prick while making them.

Psh, you just don't know Voyeur yet.

I know his posts are ignorant and idiotic.

Liiiies, like I said, you just don't know him well yet =P .. There's a typo in your sig.

In thie world? <_<

Also, wth. I thought CC got the last word in on this thread, I'll have to harrass him later today.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Liiiies, like I said, you just don't know him well yet =P .. There's a typo in your sig.

In thie world? <_<

Also, wth. I thought CC got the last word in on this thread, I'll have to harrass him later today.

And did you even read what voyeur put? it doesnt make much sense, what jaxx is saying makes perfect sense, what voyeur is doing is assuming something and basing that assumption off of no hint or clue about the moon "exploding". It may have been a "happy explosion", it may have not, but without any proof, and just like he said, he shouldnt be spouting his words as fact. How hard is that too understand?

Like I said, I'll go harrass him.

You guys just don't know Voyeur yet. Dude's win.

Obviously he is not, unless his stupid posts are some sort of clever disguise, like he is only protending to be fail?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Obviously he is not, unless his stupid posts are some sort of clever disguise, like he is only protending to be fail?

Screampaste, there are 2 options, 1) what jaxx said above is true or 2) he really is, uhh, how do i put it, not smart.

"Months after parting ways with his fairy sidekick, Navi, in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Link sets off to search for his missing companion. But what he finds instead are a pair of pixie pranksters."

"(Tatl)reluctantly guides her new partner through a portal to a parallel world---a world where everyone is a stranger, yet each looks like the twin of some one Link has met in his homeworld of Hyrule."

showing this is a younger Link as in OoT, so the two share the same feats. And the consequences of a World with out a moon has no affect on Hyrule or other existing future titles. Termina Field's world at the end, is with out a moon though 100% and it shows Parallel universes are a motif in the game.

"The parallel world Link stumbles into is one built around a towering clock. Time is everything in busy Clock Town, and it matters even more in the bustling burg since the moon has begun to creep threateningly closer and closer to the town."

Once again, another dimension fact quote from canon. This also shows that the moon is the actual sphere from the orbit and not a creation of Majora's. He simply pulls it out of orbit.

"When the moon swallows up Link and Tatl, the pair awakens in an alternate reality. Hazy and surreal like a dream, the world that they've entered is a vast and eerie playground for masked children. Masquerading as Odolwa, Goht, Gyorg, TwinMold and Majora, each child has his own dungeon. To explore their worlds, you must offer them your masks as payment."

Pointed this out to show and go along with other quotes in the story that the final battle area takes place in an alternate pocket universe created by Majora. They're not literally inside the moon.

"After you've quelled Majora's Wrath, you'll return to Termina Field and the moon that spelled doom for Clock Town will be no more."

So with this quote I show that the moon is indeed no longer in existence after the fight.

@5:44 to 5:55
you see Link enter into the portal like vortex, up into the mouth of the moon, and appearing in the pocket universe. You clearly see the world with in has its own Sun, an infinite sky line, and this hovering plot of a grassy knoll with a tree in the center. Hence, it is indeed another universe in existence, separate of the physical plane of Termina Field, that merely co-exists with in the Moon.
YouTube video

@2:25 to 3:07
you start to see the toll the battle had and Majora starts to break down. The arena starting to shake, rumble and break apart in a physical reaction to the action taking place; Majora exuding a force and energy, he himself quivering & dematerializing with a defeated power, ready to erupt. You all like to assume this is a Light show. Awesome. I was being generous the first times, giving the weakest needed scenario via "explosions" but, Light? Lets explore this path more. Even a laser pointer can pop a balloon. This is the same idea, just on a much grander scale of energy. Light can exhibit properties of particles, called photons, and waves. This property is referred to as wave–particle duality. These photons push and apply pressure on everything, just like wind, they transfer their momentum. In this case, the energy or 'Light' that Majora is producing is at such a high level that it can affect things in a physical manner on a heightened scale. The Amount of energy via protons and constant building frequency the Light would have to reach is of unfathomable numbers in order to evaporate a moon. Let alone bring down and destroy an entire miniature universe. But it fits in nicely since the Light that Majora is shown to exude is indeed white, the purist color of Light. It would lead into the scene with the rainbow, where a prism of 'White' light is exposed to a new world where the reflections of other properties can affect it. All the previous existing constructs of atoms existing from the pocket universe would make high contents of moisture in the current air, and now providing a fixture for the light and counter-colored light to exist. Hence, the rainbow & rainbow colored 'blast' radius.

A Light show? indeed it is. In such emaculate mass of protons and energy, enough to destroy a pocket universe, evaporate a solid existing moon, with Link next to it all and then expel young Link to Termina Field.
YouTube video

I understand there are some things you may want to still debate, so lets do so. The Miniature dimension was created by Majora, and you assume that upon his destruction, the world just would blows away in the wind? It is shown in the video the universe he created is reacting violently, and physically to his own destruction. It is not dissolving with him while he does. He's already no more, and yet the structure and everything is still sound. Example; what he created would still stand and exist if he continued to be or not. Manifestation of a physical construct does not merely disappear. (Dr. Manhattan's sand/glass 'house' on Mars). Instead what brought down the walls and world, was the above described situation of energy via Light from Majora's power bursting out from being contained in a body based vessel. It then continued to reap and burst the seams of the dimension, and the momentum of photons from the Light had enough to disintegrate the Bubble of a moon, then shoot young Link down to the field.

It's also suggested you think that young Link was 'teleported' to the field. In other games, and in Majora, the act of being teleported out of a boss battle looks as so.
@ 00:00 to 00:09 & 2:12 to 2:16
YouTube video
As you can clearly see, there is no spawn point of a warp upon defeating Majora and there for Link does not teleport. He even awakes from an unconscious-knocked out state starting @ 3:45 in the second video above. Which implies some sort of force was applied on him to put him into that condition. E.G. the energy protons via Majora's light expelling him to the ground. It's clear he is not safely teleported back to the fields, and underwent having to wake up from some hit upon his head & body, be it from the expulsion of, or, the actual initial energy blast in question. It also suggested the Giants moved him to the field. As you can see, @ 4:00 they have yet to move from their original spots around the clock tower, only to be facing to where Link was shot down too, and their arms are much to small in length to lay Link there otherwise. This notion also helps show that Link, tanked the energy, and woke up in about a few minutes or so. The movement of the skull kid, who was last seen laying passed out @5:46 in the first video, is most likely due to the care of his Fairy Tael, who wants to ensure his safety and suggested they moved out to the outer fields with the rest of Clock Town's residents, after he woke hope from his hypnotized daze, between the time it took for Link to fight Majora.

So there are the canon quotes. There are the video cut scenes from the games. And there it is all laid out in black and white for you. I used your own words, that it is Light and the moon evaporated, so there you have it. Proof, upon facts, and not a theory. Everything is based on what is shown, what is academic knowledge of physics & common sense, and direct quotes and words of Canon via the "Nintendo Power, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, the ONLY guide from Nintendo, player's guide."
http://www.retromags.com/forums/downloads.html&req=display&code=ss&id=1127
which I can provide torrent links for downloads if you would like to counter or question my proof, but I can reassure you 100% it's word for word from the canon guide. So please, with your own theories lets see your proofs and quotes? You want to say this is full of holes, would you like to point them out and show me how that is a valid rebuttal? I'm open to constructive criticism, but only if what you toss my way is logical instead of "lolholes" and "here's what I think" with out valid points yourselves.

your doing exactly what you did at the start.. your saying a load of stuff, which sort of ties in to what your trying to explain, but does not prove what your trying to claim, it seems that someone as smart as you are cant understand the meaning of proof.

Which is what i've been trying to tell him. You're not proving anything, all you're doing is saying "There is a possibility".

Unless you really have proof, we're going to believe what the developers showed us, which was not an explosion.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
your doing exactly what you did at the start.. your saying a load of stuff, which sort of ties in to what your trying to explain, but does not [b]prove what your trying to claim, it seems that someone as smart as you are cant understand the meaning of proof. [/B]

Originally posted by Terryc250
Which is what i've been trying to tell him. You're not proving anything, all you're doing is saying "There is a possibility".

Unless you really have proof, we're going to believe what the developers showed us, which was not an explosion.

Imagine you have a marble in your hand. Your fist is clasping it tight. The marble represents the pocket universe Majora created. Your fist is the moon. Something from inside the marble causes it to burst in energy and be destroyed, and a shock left from that energy forces your hand to loose it's grip (this being the moon evaporating) The Main force, the main explosion, happened in the pocket universe, that is what ...you know what...no, you're to brain dead or something to even understand something that simple.

There's the ****ing canon words, there's the developers words and there is the video shown. Stop using the word explosion in your mind as if it something goes "Ka-Boom" with gas, smoke, and fire. Everything you're saying is retarded and not fallible because I showed you hands down exactly what we're getting across.

ENERGY! (power, joules, force)
K1Lla441, first. "sort of ties"? No. It does. There's the quotes and words of canon, there are the videos all showing it out for you of what took place. The feat, what exactly is that? This feat is about the endurance and durability that Link can tank something point blank that powerful and immense of energy in Joules via Light, protons that showed properties of thermal evaporation and still survive. Where isn't the proof? because I'd LOVE for you to point it out.

If you guys honestly can not understand, either because you're trolling the truth or you're just not that educated on the matter, then there's no hope. I'll explain on an even more minuscule scale some other time. -__- You underestimated Link and now there's people showing you what he can do other wise, are you that scared to grasp it?

No, apparently you're the idiot here who doesn't realize that, what you're saying is not real EVIDENCE. It's SPECULATION. Do you know the difference? Would you like me to post the definitions for you?

The "pocket universe" did NOT "burst in energy" can you show me it? Can you? Majora died, it vanished, the moon Majora cursed vanished along with it. There, I just explained the video. What makes your speculation more credible then mine? I explained what was actually shown in the video. You speculated a bunch of stuff that isn't in the video at all.

It's not us who are underestimating Link, it's you who is attempted to amp Link up way more then he is.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No, apparently you're the idiot here who doesn't realize that, what you're saying is not real EVIDENCE. It's SPECULATION. Do you know the difference? Would you like me to post the definitions for you?

The "pocket universe" did NOT "burst in energy" can you show me it? Can you? Majora died, it vanished, the moon Majora cursed vanished along with it. There, I just explained the video. What makes your speculation more credible then mine? I explained what was actually shown in the video. You speculated a bunch of stuff that isn't in the video at all.

It's not us who are underestimating Link, it's you who is attempted to amp Link up way more then he is.

Stop the hating, this is discussion for fun so stop the hating. also the rainbow is evidence of that the moon did not magically vanish, since rainbow = particles(ligth can be considered a particle) and to change shape so rapidly there is a need of a "burst in energy" as you say it.

And yes since nintendo isnt the company that feeds their costumers with a lot of unnessecary facts we need to speculate to actually understand what happened with the moon, think of it like how science works. We started with our explosion hypothesis which you said fully correctly wasnt true, after that we have found out other hypothesis that seems more logical and when we come up with something that explains everything we ca say that is probably the thing that is true. Just as the big bang theory there is noone that has seen it or been told that it was like that, but the big bang theory explains so much and is flawless enough to be considered the most correct idea at the moment. The thing is that its not totally sure its just the most likely thing that have happened and thats how we try to work with the moon, to find out what most likely happened. Just saying NO it doesnt hurt link at all doesnt really help the discussion.

What are you all arguing about?