Originally posted by CosmicComet
1. Quicksilver again has very short life per use, when initially on start up it seems to stop time around him completely for half a second, including himself. In the cutscene with the rocks, lets say time slowed down by say 90%, because they were still moving albeit very slowly. The inverted song of time slows down time by 50% as you said, thats already a huge chunk of what QS does and it would slow down that speed advantage from QS accordingly. When I said cancel each other out, I meant that QS slows down time more canonically but does not last long at all, where as Inverted Song of Time slows it down by only half but lasts as long you want. Both of their advantages lessen when put against each other.And again, about the speed issue of putting the song into use, Link can still pull off Nayru's Love before he uses the song.
2. Ok. 🙂
3. Actually forgive me, it was a case of me mixing up in my head a game cutscene with the OoT manga. The manga shows Link taking a direct slash from Beast Form Ganon and he does not get cut, but just gets knocked back and he gets back up promptly. I can post a scan but its up to you entirely whether you want to accept it for the debate or not. Anyway, in the game Link isn't shown directly getting slashed at but it does show his sword getting slashed out of his hands and he was not knocked back from that despite the force. Also each time you get hit in that battle Zelda lets out a gasp, nothing direct but all things considered there is little chance that Link got out of that battle without getting hit.
4. See above. But the point stands that if Link can stand even a slash from Ganon that can pretty much disintegrate stone, an impalement from Dante who is of much lesser strength than Ganon should not be a problem regardless of if an impalement produces more pressure than a slash. More pressure than Dante's own slash sure, but Ganon's? Doubt it. And if you no longer wish to adhere to the slash durability statement that's fine, but the moon explosion tanking still exists and it is still a far greater durability feat than having to withstand an impalement that has only shown to go through stone.
5. No, I said "sans Dante's swords breaking" meaning they won't.
6. Again, it's completely different but still logically on a much lesser scale. Once more I use the analogy that if you could withstand a grenade launcher hitting you, and be completely whole, with not even any burns to show for it, you wouldn't have to worry about someone trying to impale you with a sword. The force just wouldn't be enough.
7. Ok here's the vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8SZiNSM8-E8. Again remember as I said, whenever Dante takes damage that actually hurts him, his stamina suffers. And when his stamina suffers so does his regeneration. As the battle wears on Dante's ability to recover from blows will slow immensely until eventually he can do so no longer. We already saw a demonstration of his limits with the two stabs one from Yamato and the next from Rebellion. He fainted afterward and could have been killed if Vergil came back and finished the job.
1. Dante would only need to use quicksilver for a short amount of time, and while its activated, from the way you put it, dante would almost be twice his orginal speed. Dantes regular speed in both movement and reactions surpasses links, albeit not that much in reactions, but he still excels. While it still not being enough to actually get by links defense to do anything, activating qs in my opinion (doubling his original speed) is more than enough to impale him, or chop his head off. Qs only needs to be used during few moments he would be in danger or the few moments he would need to blitz in for the win.
and for quick reference, the inverted song of time only slowed down time in majoras mask, not enemies. Is this strictly gameplay and if he activated canonically would it slow down enemies too, or does it only affect time only and not enemies canonically?
3. Him not getting nocked back in the game shows strength, not skin durability which is the matter at hand. Well if i knew that from the manga i would not have started this arguement.. so no it really doesnt count, sorry. If we were actually able to use manga then dante wouldnt be able to do shit, and i would have conceded a long time ago.
4. If that was allowable in vg versus, or if i had known that to be allowable at the beginning of the debate, sure, dantes screwed, but too bad that aint the case. And ill get to the moon later.
5. Oh. ok. so are you trying to say that dantes sword wont break links skin, but wont it wont break itself, so the only possible solution left is that it would just stop as it made contact with is skin? if im wrong please tell me what you meant about 2 posts ago.
6. In some cases you would. It depends what sword your being stabbed withl, whos stabbing you, and where your being stabbed. If your being stabbed in the chest muscle by someone who has never wielded a sword before and the sword is dull and rusty, no. But if the person stabbing you is stabbing you, lets say, in teh neck or side, and its by a sword master who has a kitana, then yes, its still completely different and would pierce the grenede launcher tankers skin. And if the whole grenade launcher thing applies to the whole moon concept then ill get to that later.
7. Now this is where i get to the moon part. Plain and simple, from what i see in that vid the moon didnt even explode, it just vanished with some magic or something. Is there some way to "prove" it exploded? becuause i never remember it vanishing like it did, everytime you or screampaste said it exploded i always pictured an actual GIANT explosion. I dont even know if that counts. And i dont see link fall from that thing at all (or did they just skip that part?), becuase wasnt skull kid in the moon too? and if he was how come he wasnt dazed, because he was just a kid.
8. Yamato is one of the few devil arms that can hurt dante that much, and it is a pretty thin blade itself (please forgive me for going back to this, hehe 🙂 ), and it hurt him. It couldnt have been much thicker than those scythes that stabbed him earlier in the game. And answer me this, would a normal person have more of a chance surviving 1 sword stab from yamato to the stomach, or about 5 stabbings through multiple parts in there body, including one directly through the chest from some thin scythes? I would bet my money on the former, which is proof that yamato is one but few blades that can actually hurt him, so assuming that links swords would end like yamatos and not like those multiple weak scythes is absurd without evidence first.
And on top of that part (i should have put this part first), like ive been saying from the beginning of the debate, dante is too fast and would not be impaled, slashed, or hit more than a couple times, and thats if link got lucky. I doubt he would hit him more than one time, as he would have to be focused on defense the whole time to even stay alive for more than 10 seconds.
Originally posted by Voyeur
I quoted the first post, I don't remember Gumachi making any other rules. It's Canon, A Link to the past Link, who had the whole Triforce. Wish, No Dante.k, done.
who me the rule from the Game Versus specific Forum that states other wise?
He never said anything against it. he said Link. That leaves all Link's up for grabs, even imo a composite one. So I picked A Link to the Past Link. That Link gets the triforce. wish. End.
I read over the rules, I don't see where it is being broke :/
Gumachi can just fix it with a post right now but until then, ....yup...same result against Sephiroth.
Killa I'm gonna try to address these main points right quick and I will get back to you on the rest as these are the most urgent to me.
6. In some cases you would. It depends what sword your being stabbed withl, whos stabbing you, and where your being stabbed. If your being stabbed in the chest muscle by someone who has never wielded a sword before and the sword is dull and rusty, no. But if the person stabbing you is stabbing you, lets say, in teh neck or side, and its by a sword master who has a kitana, then yes, its still completely different and would pierce the grenede launcher tankers skin. And if the whole grenade launcher thing applies to the whole moon concept then ill get to that later.7. Now this is where i get to the moon part. Plain and simple, from what i see in that vid the moon didnt even explode, it just vanished with some magic or something. Is there some way to "prove" it exploded? becuause i never remember it vanishing like it did, everytime you or screampaste said it exploded i always pictured an actual GIANT explosion. I dont even know if that counts. And i dont see link fall from that thing at all (or did they just skip that part?), becuase wasnt skull kid in the moon too? and if he was how come he wasnt dazed, because he was just a kid.
8. Yamato is one of the few devil arms that can hurt dante that much, and it is a pretty thin blade itself (please forgive me for going back to this, hehe smile ), and it hurt him. It couldnt have been much thicker than those scythes that stabbed him earlier in the game. And answer me this, would a normal person have more of a chance surviving 1 sword stab from yamato to the stomach, or about 5 stabbings through multiple parts in there body, including one directly through the chest from some thin scythes? I would bet my money on the former, which is proof that yamato is one but few blades that can actually hurt him, so assuming that links swords would end like yamatos and not like those multiple weak scythes is absurd without evidence first.
In some cases it would? There is possibly only one. Such as being stabbed in the eyes. No doubt that would still hurt, as it is the softest, most vulnerable part of your body that would be visible. However the rest? No. Completely tanking a grenade launcher explosion would be putting yourself quite frankly at superhuman durability levels. Delimbing/Beheading/Halving a normal man is hard enough with a sword. And a grenade launcher will simply blow any man to pieces upon direct hit. You mention a Katana. Like I said prior, Katanas have a tendency to be brittle BECAUSE of the sheer sharpness and hardness of the cutting edge. Katanas can't even get through leather armor without being damaged. And you can forget about penetrating something like plate armor entirely with any sword. Even further, trying to cut a stone slab, would get your sword ruined. Someone wearing plate armor would be killed by a grenade launcher. Aiming for a stone slab with a grenade launcher is going to clearly damage that stone slab greatly. Someone who can tank a grenade launcher completely without aid....is plainly superhuman. (Btw Katanas are quite overrated, there is nothing a katana can cut that other swords can't do just as well). A being more durable than stone has nothing to fear from a normal man wielding a blade. Nothing. They can swing and thrust and get their sword promptly mangled beyond repair. To think a sword can kill a man of that kind of durability is pretty absurd.
Now, on to the moon. Firstly here is a different video, you can start watching from 3:40. This one shows more of the moon's explosion, the first one actually skips forward a little bit and makes it seem like it simply vanished or what not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVbMiqVuV0
But as you can see and hear, Majora's initiating self destruct sequence was causing the moon to quake as evident by the rubble falling in on them. The sound as well, you can clearly hear a violent and fiery eruption-like rumbling going on during the entire destruction sequence. The colorfulness of it ultimately, is just for the good ol' happy ending effect. But it was clearly a volatile sequence as the moon disintegrated violently. And Link lands almost directly under the destruction site. Hell Skull Kid was the one who teleports you to Majora's chamber in the first place, he could escape easily when he wished to do so. Which is what he did as he was still standing unharmed while Link was waking up from the ordeal.
The sword stabbing bit next. Obviously a normal person would have a better chance of surviving a single katana impalement as opposed to several scythe impalements. But that doesn't apply much if at all to our situation here with Dante. Those ghoul scythes are featless and thus have to be assumed to have the same capabilities as a normal one. Dante got impaled by them simply because he still has very human skin. What covers him is his regeneration. Yamato and other devil arms/swords hurt him simply because they have demonstrated the feats necessary to hurt him, ie breaking/cutting/piercing stone. The Master Sword will hurt Link because again, it has been demonstrated to be able to pierce stone and hurt a guy with greater durability than Dante, again, Ganon. Consider again that none of the guys who have hurt Dante with blades have wielded them with the same kind of strength behind them that Link possesses.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Killa I'm gonna try to address these main points right quick and I will get back to you on the rest as these are the most urgent to me.In some cases it would? There is possibly only one. Such as being stabbed in the eyes. No doubt that would still hurt, as it is the softest, most vulnerable part of your body that would be visible. However the rest? No. Completely tanking a grenade launcher explosion would be putting yourself quite frankly at superhuman durability levels. Delimbing/Beheading/Halving a normal man is hard enough with a sword. And a grenade launcher will simply blow any man to pieces upon direct hit. You mention a Katana. Like I said prior, Katanas have a tendency to be brittle BECAUSE of the sheer sharpness and hardness of the cutting edge. Katanas can't even get through leather armor without being damaged. And you can forget about penetrating something like plate armor entirely with any sword. Even further, trying to cut a stone slab, would get your sword ruined. Someone wearing plate armor would be killed by a grenade launcher. Aiming for a stone slab with a grenade launcher is going to clearly damage that stone slab greatly. Someone who can tank a grenade launcher completely without aid....is plainly superhuman. (Btw Katanas are quite overrated, there is nothing a katana can cut that other swords can't do just as well). A being more durable than stone has nothing to fear from a normal man wielding a blade. Nothing. They can swing and thrust and get their sword promptly mangled beyond repair. To think a sword can kill a man of that kind of durability is pretty absurd.
Now, on to the moon. Firstly here is a different video, you can start watching from 3:40. This one shows more of the moon's explosion, the first one actually skips forward a little bit and makes it seem like it simply vanished or what not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVbMiqVuV0
But as you can see and hear, Majora's initiating self destruct sequence was causing the moon to quake as evident by the rubble falling in on them. The sound as well, you can clearly hear a violent and fiery eruption-like rumbling going on during the entire destruction sequence. The colorfulness of it ultimately, is just for the good ol' happy ending effect. But it was clearly a volatile sequence as the moon disintegrated violently. And Link lands almost directly under the destruction site. Hell Skull Kid was the one who teleports you to Majora's chamber in the first place, he could escape easily when he wished to do so. Which is what he did as he was still standing unharmed while Link was waking up from the ordeal.The sword stabbing bit next. Obviously a normal person would have a better chance of surviving a single katana impalement as opposed to several scythe impalements. But that doesn't apply much if at all to our situation here with Dante. Those ghoul scythes are featless and thus have to be assumed to have the same capabilities as a normal one. Dante got impaled by them simply because he still has very human skin. What covers him is his regeneration. Yamato and other devil arms/swords hurt him simply because they have demonstrated the feats necessary to hurt him, ie breaking/cutting/piercing stone. The Master Sword will hurt Link because again, it has been demonstrated to be able to pierce stone and hurt a guy with greater durability than Dante, again, Ganon. Consider again that none of the guys who have hurt Dante with blades have wielded them with the same kind of strength behind them that Link possesses.
The eyes, neck, or temple would all be fatal and an easy way to kill/immobilize someone to end a fight. And I only used the example of a kitana becuase it was the first sword that came to mind, not becuase i thought it was a good sword. The whole fact of that was to say if certain conditions were met, then imo someone could pierce the skin of a grenade launcher tanking foe. And if this relates to how link can tank a moon explosion so you think no sword can pierce his skin, well its wrong because:
That didnt change much from the last video, you say that the whole "colorful" effect was for the sake of it being a happy ending, but it still vanished, it didnt explode. You could change the rainbow color to dark fire and make it look as un-happy as it could possibly be, it still wouldnt change the fact that it vanished. The fact that it didnt explode isnt pis, or whatever you wanna call it, it can still be a happy ending while the moon exploded, but nobody in there right mind would make a moond "vanish" when they wanted it to "explode" and color it up and expect people to think that it actually did. I acknowledge the fact that the moon shook, but it did not explode. Majoras mask was defeated when link destroyed it in the moon, so i dont know how the skull kid could get back down when hes just a kid. And lets say he could easily get off the moon just as easily of how he got on it, how do we know (since the mask is destroyed and he isnt evil anymore) that he didnt just take link with him, and link was just a little dazed from the violent rumbling and shaking of the mask being destroyed right in front of him? There are many things that could have happened, and it didnt even look like it exploded. It just disappeared. I have never actually studied that video before, but it would be foolish to automatically assume that link took the full force of a moon exploding, when 1. he could have easily been carried off by skull kid 2. the moon didnt even explode.
I get what your saying, but it doesnt make sense. The scythes broke his skin, and regardless of how featless the scythes/ghouls are, they still broke his skin in many places, including one right through the chest. No no matter how many feats yamato has, the only thing it did is break his skin, impaling him in the same manner as the scythes, except right through his stomach. Im not gonna say that a scythe hurt more than yamato, because it doesnt. Yamato has a thicker, longer blade. But if dante got impaled by many scythes (and it doesnt matter how featless they are, there blades, that impaled him, and thats all that matters) and it hardly even phased him, and a blade that impaled him in the same manner as the scythes, a little thicker, made him fall and faint, then it would be silly to assume that the latter blade is just a normal one, because it leads right back to the fact that yamato is one of the few devil arms that can hurt dante.
And strenght means nothing when both blades are impaling. If a guy who lifts one ton, impales a monster with a normal looking sword, and another guy who can lift 10 tons impales the same monster, in the same spot, with the same sword, would the stronger guys impalement hurt more? not really, once you break the skin, thats all you can do. Dante got impaled, it doesnt matter really about what the sword can do, and acted as if nothing happened, so link would have to get multiple sword impalements to kill dante.
And again, this all fall under the arguement that link wouldnt even be able to hit dante. Not even. If link hit him once, that would be out of pure luck. Anyone who knows dante would agree to this, the fight wouldnt last long, it wouldnt need to, speed blitz and its over. Link simply cant keep up with his speed, ive already told you that he can impale him, the moon thing doesnt count, ganon never canonically slashed/stabbed (not including manga) him, and nothing link could execute would be fast enough before he gets impaled/decapitated. That would pretty much be the whole fight, link really has nothing left for him.
That's not an explosion, i've already debunked it in the other thread. The moon simply transforms top to bottom into a rainbow, an explosion would have an actual output of energy and would harm the nearby things. That moon transformation harmed NOTHING at all.
But apparently this guy thinks Link is naturally invulnerable.