Sephiroth vs Cloud

Originally posted by niduin
ok BT, the fact is that sephiroth IS more powerful than cloud, cloud just happens to have a really powerful plot device. if seph REALLY REALLY wanted cloud dead instead of playing around then cloud would die almost instantly but seph is so f@#king arrogant that he thinks he cant die by anything from cloud, it is true that cloud is capable of killing sephiroth but he has to be able to hit him and apart from seph letting him hit him omnislash is the only way he can do it. so if it was stated that sephiroth was giving 100% then easy win for him but that wasnt ever stated so i give the win to cloud because sephiroth wont ever use his entire strength

fact of the matter is many things are plot devices, negative lifestream is part of the plot, and so is a plot device etc, just as much as Omnislash is. omnislash is a move that at a particulour range Sephiroth is stufffed, its simply fact Sephiroth cannot react to Omnislash and no amount of 100% usage of his powers will change that unless your implying he was purposely not using any piower while being slashed to bits and defeated by Omnislash which obviously is not true.

The only way Sephiroth beats Cloud is if Cloud only uses his normal swordsmanship, the only way he can beat Cloud if Cloud wants to do Omnislash is if he is at good range and sending in his Neg lifestream.

Originally posted by Burning thought
According to the developers nothing is above Sephiroth

The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

No they say he wins in a straight up fight, which is what I agreed on because nothing in FF can fight against the negative lifestream, but in melee? not a chance, Clouds omnislash>>>>Sephiroths techniques.

Cloud...he beat Seph already.

It is simply truth that the creators have said that Sephiroth is greater then Cloud and that Sephiroth wasn't trying in the AC fight or even in any fight against Cloud.

Why?

Zack fights with Sephiroth, but is eventually disarmed and too injured to attack. Soon after, Cloud reaches the Nibelheim reactor and engages in a battle against Sephiroth. Cloud is quickly impaled through the stomach and hung over the reactor core by Sephiroth. Cloud, in a feat of strength, grabs the sword and pushes himself forward, and subsequently throws Sephiroth against a wall. Sephiroth, with Jenova's head, jumps into the reactor core in an attempt to reach the Promised Land.

Here Sephiroth was humiliated by a ShinRa grunt which he denys.

Sephiroth doesn't want to think that Cloud was ever or could ever do that SO he believes in his mind that Cloud is always a weakass and could never ever hope to beat him. Which is true unless Cloud gets toyed with for a while and his limit gets pushed 😉 giving him the Spirit Energy to perform Omnislash. IF Sephiroth doesn't underestimate or toy with Cloud then Sephiroth wins in an instant.

Remember Burning Thought: Cloud can't instantly use Omnislash. he is required to be beat up a fair bit.

Also you seem to think that Sephiroth is a worse swordsman then Cloud which is wrong, remember the creators say he wasn't trying in that fight, he wasn't sweating or panting at all whereas Cloud was giving it his all.

So I guess we have it. Seph shits all over Cloud 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
fact of the matter is many things are plot devices, negative lifestream is part of the plot, and so is a plot device etc, just as much as Omnislash is. omnislash is a move that at a particulour range Sephiroth is stufffed, its simply fact Sephiroth cannot react to Omnislash and no amount of 100% usage of his powers will change that unless your implying he was purposely not using any piower [b]while being slashed to bits and defeated by Omnislash which obviously is not true.

The only way Sephiroth beats Cloud is if Cloud only uses his normal swordsmanship, the only way he can beat Cloud if Cloud wants to do Omnislash is if he is at good range and sending in his Neg lifestream. [/B]

and also its not just the neg lifestream that makes seph stronger than cloud. The absolute only reason sephiroth loses to cloud is that he refuses to beleive that cloud can hurt him and so he messes with cloud when he could easily cut thru his sword and head end of story

Originally posted by K1ll3r
It is simply truth that the creators have said that Sephiroth is greater then Cloud and that Sephiroth wasn't trying in the AC fight or even in any fight against Cloud.

Why?

Zack fights with Sephiroth, but is eventually disarmed and too injured to attack. Soon after, Cloud reaches the Nibelheim reactor and engages in a battle against Sephiroth. Cloud is quickly impaled through the stomach and hung over the reactor core by Sephiroth. Cloud, in a feat of strength, grabs the sword and pushes himself forward, and subsequently throws Sephiroth against a wall. Sephiroth, with Jenova's head, jumps into the reactor core in an attempt to reach the Promised Land.

Here Sephiroth was humiliated by a ShinRa grunt which he denys.

Sephiroth doesn't want to think that Cloud was ever or could ever do that SO he believes in his mind that Cloud is always a weakass and could never ever hope to beat him. Which is true unless Cloud gets toyed with for a while and his limit gets pushed 😉 giving him the Spirit Energy to perform Omnislash. IF Sephiroth doesn't underestimate or toy with Cloud then Sephiroth wins in an instant.

Remember Burning Thought: Cloud can't instantly use Omnislash. he is required to be beat up a fair bit.

Also you seem to think that Sephiroth is a worse swordsman then Cloud which is wrong, remember the creators say he wasn't trying in that fight, he wasn't sweating or panting at all whereas Cloud was giving it his all.

limit breaks are a gameplay notion, can you find canon evidence that out of game Cloud requires to build up any limit to use Ominslash?

As I said, please show me canon evidence that suggests Cloud cannot do Omnislash right away.

No, when did I state this? infact you obviously did not read my posts because ive said that Cloud would die without Omnislash in a normal sword fight:

Originally posted by Burning thought

The only way Sephiroth beats Cloud is if Cloud only uses his normal swordsmanship

Originally posted by niduin
wow its like you didnt even read what i was saying, i said that clouds omni slash wins everytime.

and also its not just the neg lifestream that makes seph stronger than cloud. The absolute only reason sephiroth loses to cloud is that he refuses to beleive that cloud can hurt him and so he messes with cloud when he could easily cut thru his sword and head end of story

You just contradicted yourself so why should I read any of your posts in the first place?

you just said Clouds omnislash wins every time and then you go on to say the absolute only reason sephiroth loses to Cloud is because he messes with him......

Sephiroth has nothing to stop Omnislash, its too fast and once its started Sephiroth is busted.

Furthermore what reason do you have that I apprently ignored your post? I addressed the fact you called Ominslash a plot device power when most of Sephirtohs could be called the same.

limit breaks are a gameplay notion, can you find canon evidence that out of game Cloud requires to build up any limit to use Ominslash?

As I said, please show me canon evidence that suggests Cloud cannot do Omnislash right away.

For starters there's the fact that in canon we only know of two instances where he used it, both of them against the person he hates most. If he could pull it off willy nilly then he would use it more often.

Then there's the fact that he doesn't use it in AC until after he is worn out, wounded, and Sephiroth begins to taunt him, at which point we see a flood of memories flash through Cloud's mind to inspire him, building up enough rage and spirit energy to pull it off.

Just stop, BT, you've lost.

Sephiroth uses his Telekinesis to stop Cloud from moving. Then he smirks and chops his head off.

End of battle.

@ BT, you keep saying Cloud has omnislash, so he wins. By the time Cloud gets ready to use it, Sephiroth would have cut Cloud to a million pieces, because he can shoot beams out from his sword, speed blitz him, or teleport behind Cloud and kill him. Sephiroth can also use telekinesis so he can't move, then he cuts his head off.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
@ BT, you keep saying Cloud has omnislash, so he wins. By the time Cloud gets ready to use it, Sephiroth would have cut Cloud to a million pieces, because he can shoot beams out from his sword, speed blitz him, or teleport behind Cloud and kill him. Sephiroth can also use telekinesis so he can't move, then he cuts his head off.

Gets ready to use it? wtf......show me him, "getting ready" to use it....well no, sorry but Cloud will destroy Sephiroth while hes "getting ready" to use his sword beams in that case....

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Sephiroth uses his Telekinesis to stop Cloud from moving. Then he smirks and chops his head off.

End of battle.

unfortunaltey not before Clouds instant Omnislash carves him into bits.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
For starters there's the fact that in canon we only know of two instances where he used it, both of them against the person he hates most. If he could pull it off willy nilly then he would use it more often.

Then there's the fact that he doesn't use it in AC until after he is worn out, wounded, and Sephiroth begins to taunt him, at which point we see a flood of memories flash through Cloud's mind to inspire him, building up enough rage and spirit energy to pull it off.

Just stop, BT, you've lost.

Your assuming/guessing, theres no offical statement that claims Cloud can only do it when he is angry. Its just a move like any other. And no he wouldnt use it more often because its "super" "special" move that stops Sephiroth, it would not be half as special if he used it every time he saw an enemy.

lol, you would know all about losing, unfortunaltey for you, you have zero credability.

Originally posted by Burning thought

unfortunaltey not before Clouds instant Omnislash carves him into bits.

Right. Because he doesn't even think about doing the move, right? He just does it because its instict for him.

Funny.

No,silly. All the evidence is on my side here. He couldn't use the attack before wounded and angry, then seeing all sorts of things he wanted to protect flash in his mind. Omnislash isn't just a move, ok champ?

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No,silly. All the evidence is on my side here. He couldn't use the attack before wounded and angry, then seeing all sorts of things he wanted to protect flash in his mind. Omnislash isn't just a move, ok champ?

Sorry but, theres no actual official statement....

And its amusing that you started saying "champ" ever since I called you sport and chief months ago lol.....and since then youve been pwned by almost every debator you go up against and have even been stated to be a weak debator by a mod....

nobody will ever take you seriously, i think if ever you did bother to take your time to make a real argument your behaviour previously would still be enough to get you nothing but a laugh

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Right. Because he doesn't even think about doing the move, right? He just does it because its instict for him.

Funny.

ofc he has to think....so? so does Sephiroth...

And who do you think will execute first?

Sephiroth has already grabbed hold of the entire FF7 party in a flash of light.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
And who do you think will execute first?

Sephiroth has already grabbed hold of the entire FF7 party in a flash of light.

And apprently Omnislash happens in a blink of an eye, so the speed of the beginning of it would be minute.

So its faster?

Ofc its faster.....

WTF does Ofc mean?