Superboy Prime vs Darkseid (h2h)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Only... you completely ignore when another New God fully mainested in the lower dimension before Darkseid. Namely, Orion. He fell because there was no Fourth World either. Multiversal upheaval when he manifested? Nope. As such, simply being a New God and manifesting in a lower vibratory dimension means nothing. The main difference betweeb Orion and Darkseid? Darkseid mastered the ALE. Nuff said.

No essays? I'm surprised. Since when did Orion have avatars? Darkseid is the one that projects avatars of his "omnipotent" whole.

Originally posted by Allankles
No essays? I'm surprised. Since when did Orion have avatars? Darkseid is the one that projects avatars of his "omnipotent" whole.

Yet, you won't abide my own reliance on those same exact prior stories to show that Darkseid never had zomgwtfbbqpwnerz multiversal powers. Oh I see. What do we call that again? That's right, self-serving logic.

Get over it. You asserted that we've never seen New Gods before. Therefore, multiversal upheavals attributed to New Gods is very possible. Therefore, DS could have been responsible for everything on his own power. Garbage. Orion is a New God, he manifested, and no multiversal upheaval occured. On-panel. The difference? DS had the ALE, which makes you master of all existence, such that existence becomes you, and Orion did not. Nuff said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh I see. So you're relying on prior stories whereby Darkseid is using avatars as a premise to suggest that Darkseid in Final Crisis was far more powerful.

Yet, you won't abide my own reliance on those same exact prior stories to show that Darkseid never had zomgwtfbbqpwnerz multiversal powers. Oh I see. What do we call that again? That's right, self-serving logic.

Get over it. You asserted that we've never seen New Gods before. Therefore, multiversal upheavals attributed to New Gods is very possible. Therefore, DS could have been responsible for everything on his own power. Garbage. Orion is a New God, he manifested, and no multiversal upheaval occured. On-panel. The difference? DS had the ALE, which makes you master of all existence, such that existence becomes you, and Orion did not. Nuff said.

Self serving how? Darkseid is the only New God to have confirmed avatars operating in the universe, both within Apokolips itself and the wider universe.

How is it self serving when we know that Darkseid's avatar resided in Earth from "52" all the way up to Final Crisis where his full manifestation landed on Earth, cracking space?

Boss Darkside, was an avatar of Darkseid residing on Earth for a number of years before the time paradox caused by the destruction of the 4th world allowed the full manifestation of this Devil god to land on Earth during FC.

An avatar of Darkseid already existed on Earth before Final Crisis only during Final Crisis did his full manifestation descend onto Earth.

So spare me the biased ranting.

EDIT: I never mentioned the other New Gods never being seen before, I said they embodied concepts and were more than superheroes.

I never suggested that the other New gods would crack space, I was speaking directly for what Darkseid did in FC.

Also it should be noted that Darkseid recreated the other Apokoliptan gods according to how he remembered them, truth is they had died and Darkseid was the only one that had trully survived the war in heaven.

So the whole cracking space thing was all Darkseid as the Guardians and Lanterns confirm.

Darkseid, Orion and Motherboxxx survived the war in heaven. If you want to rely on prior stories to suggest that Darkseid was more powerful than other New Gods, then you must accept as absolute truth that Darkseid in those prior stories never evinced any multiversal power. So simple. So sublime. Only self-serving logic could ignore how easy that is to accept. Not only that, you're still trying to ignore clear on-panel evidence whereby ALE affects time, space and unmakes creation and rebuilds the world. Wut? WUT?!

Keep cherrypicking certain character's statements that could be read both ways, while ignoring other character's statements that only attribute such effects to the ALE. Keep it up.

13 pages of walls of text

^ uhuh

^awesome

^ dur

SBP ftw

superprime boy?

nice edit 😉

stupid dyslexia and public school system and english as a second language. i am sure you can understand the up hill battle i have with typing correctly.

any who i edited it.

i figure i give a short answer instead of getting swallowed in to the DC logic and inconsistencies, power ups and universal representation of beings from other universes that are placed right inside another that can be reached by flight alone.

no, i don't understand uhuh

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Darkseid, Orion and Motherboxxx survived the war in heaven. If you want to rely on prior stories to suggest that Darkseid was more powerful than other New Gods, then you must accept as absolute truth that Darkseid in those prior stories never evinced any multiversal power. So simple. So sublime. Only self-serving logic could ignore how easy that is to accept. Not only that, you're still trying to ignore clear on-panel evidence whereby ALE affects time, space and unmakes creation and rebuilds the world. Wut? WUT?!

Keep cherrypicking certain character's statements that could be read both ways, while ignoring other character's statements that only attribute such effects to the ALE. Keep it up.

😬

The ALE never did anything to time and space, sorry that wasn't its purpose in the plot. Anyone who takes even a cursory look at FC would identify that from Mokkari all the way to DS' defeat at the hands of the Black Racer, there's no mention of the ALE affecting time and space, only that it will turn all life into Darkseid's body.

Motherbox is a living computer (relevant how?). Darkseid is the one who had an avatar (Boss Darkside) on Earth before the impact of his full manifestation's on material world cracked space in FC 4.

Orion has never had avatars so I don't know how he is relevant, seeing as the singularity is unique to Darkseid and was never suggested to be a New God trait by the comic or by anyone in this thread (for that matter).

Darkseid is the one with the "omnipotent" full manifestation from a hgher vibrational non-material realm. Orion is described as a: "no.1 cosmic hard ass." Darkseid is the "devil god dragging the multiverse into his own hell".

Even among the New Gods Darkseid's nature for projecting avatars is unique. Even Vykin (one of the most knowledgable of the New Gods) found it remarkable that Darkseid operated through lesser fractions of his complete self.

^ Once again you completely ignore the scan that shows that the ALE cracks time and space. Not only that, you can't even bring youself to mention that Cain commans Spectre to speak the ALE to "Unmake creation. Rebuild the world...". Not only that, you act as if it wasn't stated on-panel that the ALE is mathematical proof that DS is the master of all existence.That's pure ignorant trolling. You don't want me to post the scans over an over again that prove you utterly wrong? That's fine. That doesn't stop them from existing.

You constantly harp on how prior storylines show that Darkseid was much more powerful than other New Gods. Yet, you completely ignore that in those same exact prior storylines, he never showed the ability to cause multiversal upheaval. Get over yourself.

Tricksterpriest and Fangirl101 have been harping on and on about how DS, simply by being a New God manifesting on a lower vibratory plane, causes multiversal upheaval. So don't pretend like that argument hasn't been made. Like I have said over an dover again, get your interpretations straight with each other before presenting them to me. Its obvious that you guys can't get your theories straight amongst each other, yet you never bother to argue with each other, so long as you all agree that DS does everything in Final Crisis on his own power. Garbage. Self-serving garbage.

It doesn't fly, on any level. DS never had any multiversal upheaval power in prior stories. That is truth. Don't use prior stories to suggest he did. That's outright lying. ALE in prior stories was shown to be far more than just mind-control or enslavement of will. In fact, Grant Morrison mentioned that the Anti-Life Entity was capable of destroying the universe. Yet... I can't cite it as proof that the ALE does more than enslave free will?

BS. You want to cherry-pick between the stories? Fine. So long as you understand that you're using double-standard, bs, equivocative, self-serving logic. For what? A DS fanboy wetdream. Nuff said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Once again you completely ignore the scan that shows that the ALE cracks time and space. Not only that, you can't even bring youself to mention that Cain commans Spectre to speak the ALE to "Unmake creation. Rebuild the world...". Not only that, you act as if it wasn't stated on-panel that the ALE is mathematical proof that DS is the master of all existence.That's pure ignorant trolling. You don't want me to post the scans over an over again that prove you utterly wrong? That's fine. That doesn't stop them from existing.

You constantly harp on how prior storylines show that Darkseid was much more powerful than other New Gods. Yet, you completely ignore that in those same exact prior storylines, he never showed the ability to cause multiversal upheaval. Get over yourself.

Tricksterpriest and Fangirl101 have been harping on and on about how DS, simply by being a New God manifesting on a lower vibratory plane, causes multiversal upheaval. So don't pretend like that argument hasn't been made. Like I have said over an dover again, get your interpretations straight with each other before presenting them to me. Its obvious that you guys can't get your theories straight amongst each other, yet you never bother to argue with each other, so long as you all agree that DS does everything in Final Crisis on his own power. Garbage. Self-serving garbage.

It doesn't fly, on any level. DS never had any multiversal upheaval power in prior stories. That is truth. Don't use prior stories to suggest he did. That's outright lying. ALE in prior stories was shown to be far more than just mind-control or enslavement of will. You want to cherry-pick between the stories? Fine. So long as you understand that you're using double-standard, bs, equivocative, self-serving logic. For what? A DS fanboy wetdream. Nuff said.

We've already been through this why spend 15 minutes plus coming up with big walls of text?

Your argument falls apart in its lack of consistency. You want people to beleive the ALE had aspects it was never defined to have both in the secret files and the entire event.

Unmaking the world by the Spectre has no connection to Darkseid'S singularity in the main FC. I can ask you to relate what happened with Rucka's revelations and how it related to Morrison's main FC title and you won't have any connections. Why? because the two events were not directly linked nor were they intended to BE.

They are linked in one way: symbolism. Radiant and Spectre (representing the concepts of mercy and vengeance) are powerless just as free will, in the face of anti-life. They play a "side role" showing a changing of the guard.

^ Translation:

"You're wrong, even though on-panel proof is on your side. I ignore it, therefore I can evince some sort of front whereby my fanboy wetdream comes true."

"Off-topic gibberish about Radiant and Spectre that has nothing to do with anything you've said. I post this to waste time just to act as if I'm rebutting something because I, in fact, have nothing. But if I don't post this off-topic gibberish, I'll have conceded without a fight and therefore, maybe the less astute audience members may be fooled into thinking I have a leg to stand on."

PM Tricksterpriest, comicfan11, fangirl101, kevdude, The Great Galen and hazsekswthurmom about the inconsistencies amongst yourselves before wasting my time. Otherwise, unless you can actually open your eyes and accept the on-panel proof that the ALE cracks time and space and physically unmakes creation and febuilds the world, just go away. 😬

When Cain commands the Spectre to shout out Anti-Life he is spiting the Old God, he turns the servant of the Old God into the servant of Darkseid. He uses the Spectre to scream out across the world (which is the foundation stone of creation) that Darkseid is master of all. The equation breaks free will - disproving the idea of the Old God's divinity and proving Darkseid right to be ruler. He is told to cancel out the Old God's image on creation (life).

Even going by your theory if it were a power amplifier Darkseid would simply have remade everything by his lonesome, no reason why Spectre would have been needed by Cain.

Lilith states categorically that the Spear of Destiny is the tool that will be used. If the ALE could accomplish the creation of fire pits, Spectre would have been irrelevant to Cain and co.

"Darkseid is sitting at the centre of a personal singularity beyond the reach of light.

The singularity was emanating from Darkseid's own spirit. If the ALE had any power of its own it wouldn't need buffers for it to infect others. The internet, the spear of destiny, the morticcus (sp?) organism etc

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Translation:

PM Tricksterpriest, comicfan11, fangirl101, kevdude, The Great Galen and hazsekswthurmom about the inconsistencies amongst yourselves before wasting my time. Otherwise, unless you can actually open your eyes and accept the on-panel proof that the ALE cracks time and space and physically unmakes creation and febuilds the world, just go away. 😬

The ALE was never stated as causing time and space to crack, your inability to read statements properly is why we are here. The ALE affected their technology turning into a god weapon to infect billions of people. The Ray was talking about how the event happened retelling the story. He wasn't being specific.

How you can take a statement from the Ray where he is talking about how humanity was affected and then blatantly refuse to accept the Guardians precise analysis on events as they transpired is amusing.

Further the only effect Spectre had was on Earth, the ALE's every judgment affects free will. The unmaking was a metaphysical event, intended to erase the Old God's divine spark (free will) and replace it with Anti-life (which is the absence of free will).

Originally posted by Allankles
Even going by your theory if it were a power amplifier Darkseid would simply have remade everything by his lonesome, no reason why Spectre would have been needed by Cain.

Originally posted by Allankles
Lilith states categorically that the Spear of Destiny is the tool that will be used. If the ALE could accomplish the creation of fire pits, Spectre would have been irrelevant to Cain and co.

Originally posted by Allankles [/i]
The singularity was emanating from Darkseid's own spirit. If the ALE had any power of its it wouldn't need buffers jsjfor it to infect others. The internet, the spear of destiny, the morticcus (sp?) organism etc

And once again you completely ignore how such logic can be turned back onto you. If DS' own personal power could accomplish all that, what was the point of all those plot points, eh? 😬