Superboy Prime vs Darkseid (h2h)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except as you so seem to conveniently forget, DS had not even manifested yet.
Yet again, you so conveniently forget that both kevdude and I agreed that Spectre is the biggest louspeaker in creation. Not only that, even if we were to adopt your position that DS could accomplish everything on his own, why bother enslaving humanity in the first place? Hmm? Why bother having Cain find the Spear and enslaving Spectre? Hmm? Do you see now how ridiculous it is to imbue DS with all this inherent power? If he had it this whole time, there was no need even for him to master the ALE, the singular source of his obsession his entire career. DUH!!!! Once again, I turn your own self-serving logic against you.
Except that DS hadn't even manifested yet. Oh, how easy it is for people with such personal motivations to forget the oh-so obvious. 🙄

And once again you completely ignore how such logic can be turned back onto you. If DS' own personal power could accomplish all that, what was the point of all those plot points, eh? 😬

A singularity cannot remake creation, it has a single purpose, to draw everyone into Darkseid's hell where there would be no escape from the ALE.

The plot points have been related to you throughout the New God's history. Apokolips and New Genesis battle for the very fate of the universe. If Apokolips should be victorious in "final" conflict, then nothing can protect the material world from Darkseid and Apokolips.

Further the destruction of the 4th world will bring about a recreation of a 5th world, but such a plan is not of Darkseid's making but of a higher power.

The Anti Life equation replaces the old creation with Darkseid's own, preventing New Genesis' rebirth from the corpse of Apokolips. The ALE results in life reflecting the single will of Darkseid, the singularity is the trap door to ensure that DS' will commands this iteration of existence (nothing opposess him), and by effect prevent a 5th world that doesn't reflect DS.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except as you so seem to conveniently forget, DS had not even manifested yet.

Wut? This takes place well after FC # 4 so I don't know what you're talking about. Remember, humanity affected by the ALE and all? DS and the other Apokoliptans could easily build a loudspeaker if that's all Spectre is good for. As always your arguments are all over the place.

Originally posted by Allankles
A singularity cannot remake creation, it has a single purpose, to draw everyone into Darkseid's hell where there would be no escape from the ALE.

Everything else you posted was off-topic gibberish that doesn't even rebut any of my arguments in my last post. Once again, you post for posting's sake as if you're trying to fool an ignorant audience member into believing you are actually asserting something substantial. Go ahead and ignore the on-panel evidence that the ALE cracks time, space and unmakes creation and rebuilds the world. Ignore that your own reliance on past storylines actually works against you because Darkseid has no multiversal upheaval powers and that ALE has been depicted as threatening all of existence. Ignore that any of your self-serving logic which suggests that if the ALE were so powerful, why would Cain have to enslave Spectre, etc. can be straight up turned back around on you to reason against DS having such personal power.

Oh, that's right. You're not ignoring it. You're just dodging it. 😬

Dude,don't even try and read this thread stoned.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Nobody ever said a singularity can remake creation. Don't put words into my mouth just so you can rebut arguments nobody's even made to avoid the real arguments that completely disprove your assertions. The ALE makes you master of all existence such that existence becomes you. DS, as a result of his battle with Orion, had a singularity at his core. The multiverse would collapse into a singularity since it is mirroring DS' form by virtue of his mastery of the ALE. Simple.

Daft.

The ALE made all those infected into Darksied's church/body.

By FC's count 3 billion humans were Darkseid's body, 3 billion humans don't represent all of creation.

Your interpreations are making forced correlations for the ALE when the specific properties of the equation don't support your conclusions. It turns the living beings infected into Darkseid's body i.e. they are commanded by Darkseid's will alone "All is one in Darkseid".

Next.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Everything else you posted was off-topic gibberish that doesn't even rebut any of my arguments in my last post.
😬

Gibberish huh? And then you go ahead and post a wall of text full of blather? Not looking so sharp there me-boy. And I already made rebuttals for your previous post, I adressed what the plot points were, the significance of the war, the nature of the singularity.

^ You haven't done anything. You haven't addressed how the ALE in prior stories is depicted as being more than just enslavement of will. You haven't addressed how clearly the ALE cracks time and space and unmakes creation and rebuilds the world on-panel. You haven't addressed how any of your personal criticisms that, if the ALE can do all that, why were all these subplots required, could be turned right back in your face concerning DS' personal power.

As for your 3 billion beings assertion, once again you put words into my mouth. Did I say that the ALE's effects were instantaneous? No. Have I continually asserted that the ALE's effects would actually come in stages? Such that it's a gradual process? Yes. So what are you doing again? Trying to rebut an argument that's never made, simply so you can avoid addressing every other rebuttal that you cannot possibly muster a cogent argument against. Keep it up. At least instead of using self-serving purple prose logic and cherry-picking ignorance, you're resorting to dodging and putting words into my mouth. That could be considered a step up? Right? Right? Right? 😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You haven't done anything. You haven't addressed how the ALE in prior stories is depicted as being more than just enslavement of will. You haven't addressed how clearly the ALE cracks time and space and unmakes creation and rebuilds the world on-panel. You haven't addressed how any of your personal criticisms that, if the ALE can do all that, why were all these subplots required, could be turned right back in your face concerning DS' personal power.

The ALE never recreates anything physically on panel.

In prior stories the ALE is an equation that disproves the very concept of free will, this very fact gives its structure an unimaginable depth, as we can't fully fathom how such a thing would be like.

It's contents - as we are given in the comics - do not fully represent the depth of what the anti-thesis to free will would be like. There is no Ant-Life entity.

Using your reasoning I asked you how the Spectre was useful if all he was was a loud speaker. My position is that the unmaking was the cancellation of the Old God's divine spark a metaphysical process.

My position is colored by the fact that FC describes Anti-Life as the absence of free will. Anti-life is the anti-thesis of free will, anything beyond that and you're reaching. Free will is the divine spark if DS takes it away via the ALE he puts his imprint on life (creation).

You want to jump from the ALE infecting 3 billion people to relating it to the singularity which has nothing to do with Anti-life.

Worse you want to bypass the signifcance of Lilith's prophecy with Cain and the Dark god who dwells in the abyss.

The spear of destiny would be the key to unmaking the Old God and would result in the enslavement (anti-life) of all the Old God's children, mortal and spectre alike (all sentient life).

Originally posted by Allankles
The ALE never recreates anything physically on panel.

Originally posted by Allankles
In prior stories the ALE is an equation that disproves the very concept of free will, this very fact gives its structure an unimaginable depth, as we can't fully fathom how such a thing would be like.

It's contents - as we are given in the comics - do not fully represent the depth of what the anti-thesis to free will would be like. There is no Ant-Life entity.

Originally posted by Allankles
Using your reasoning I asked you how the Spectre was useful if all he was was a loud speaker. My position is that the unmaking was the cancellation of the Old God's divine spark a metaphysical process.

My position is colored by the fact that FC describes Anti-Life as the absence of free will. Anti-life is the anti-thesis of free will, anything beyond that and you're reaching. Free will is the divine spark if DS takes it way via the ALE he puts his imprint on life (creation).

Please. And here I thought you were done using purple prose logic and cherry-picking. It wasn't one post later that you reverted. Pfft. 😬

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Only if you are a blind retard and forget Mokkari and Cain/Spectre doing just that

Except there was, as explicitly referenced by Grant Morrison himself. Any aspect of the ALE we have seen before is a mere facet. Don't try to suggest that the enslavement of free will, which we've already seen, encompasses that unimaginable whole because your silly, self-serving purple prose logic dictates so. More importantly, there has never beenan omgwtfbbqkfc superpwnerz multiversal++ Darkseid in prior stories. Wut? Wut?
anti-life is mathematical proof that you are the master of all existence. On-panel in Final Crisis. Whereas your position isn't stated anywhere except as a preface to describing the ALE. A preface that concludes that such an aspect is a mere facet of what is the unimaginable whole. Wut? Wut?

Please. And here I thought you were done using purple prose logic and cherry-picking. It wasn't one post later that you reverted. Pfft. 😬

Why are you getting yourself confused? So you're saying the description of Anti-life as the - absence of of free will in FC is invalid?

So you've just been confused this entire time. 😆 Anti-life is Darkseid's theory on the nature of life. It disproves the very concept of free will. I told you many pages ago, that being able to disprove free will has everything to do with why the ALE makes DS the New God. (No one is denying that it is mathematical proof that DS is rightful master).

Your inability to discern the significance of such a truth is why we're here with your 1 to 1, extremely linear interpretations.

Above is Morrison script on DS. " [he's] monstrously, sociopathically at odds with all free, living things". The ALE' area of effect is all free living things.

And the way you foolishly latch on to the part where Morrison mentions the unimaginable whole. of the equation.. ridiculous.

These are the exact words so that you don't continue to spread your misconceptions:

"As with most of the weapons and artifacts of the higher vibratory world of the New Gods, we see only facets of the barely unimaginable whole that is the complete Anti-life equation."

For those of us with the problem of not reading statements correctly, what Morrison is saying is that the parts of the equation that we're given don't represent what the full anti-life equation looks like.

It is such an unimaginable idea to disprove the very concept of free will, the Anti-life equation is an overwhelmingly deep thesis. It is a math equation that is unimaginably complex.

odg, I dare to tell us it's a power up or an entity that can reconstruct the universe, while at the same time calling it a mathematical equation.

How can a math equation be a power up? Mokkari downloaded it into the internet. Some of it was coded into the DNA of the morticuss (sp?) virus that infected Wonder woman. It was downloaded into the tech for the Justifiers' helmets. It was used by the spectre via Cain only after he had been unmade (enslaved) by the Spear of Destiny and the Spectre's own powerful metaphysical form was used as a buffer for the equation.

Your shitty interpretations aren't supported by FC. It is a math equation that's why it needs a buffer, once in the buffer, it is translated so that it can infect whatever it comes into contact with in its new form.

If it was a powerup DS wouldn't need all those buffers to translate it, he would just reconstruct everything with his new space-time redesigner. Instead, he could only affect space time with a singularity that was emnating from his spirit, my guess, the ALE couldn't physically remake anything.

Prime would utterly humiliate darksied.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Superman, Batman, Mr Miracle, Metron, Nix Uotan, etc etc.
Yes, ALE cracked time/space. For the expressed purpose of breaking existence down so that it would conform to DS' form. After all, ALE makes you master of all existence, such that existence becomes you. Orion did not have the ALE, which is why, when he fell from the Fourth World after it was destroyed, existence was not becoming distorted.

So why do we ignore how important the ALE is to Darkseid? Even when there is direct evidence that the ALE causes time and space to crack and can cause physical distortions to existence such that creation is unmade and the world is rebuilt? Because you want Darkseid to have some sort of multiversal significance? Purple prose assertions and wild speculation sourced by personal motivation does not overcome the plain presentation of clear on-panel evidence.

When you master the ALE, you become master of all existence, such that existence becomes you. Darkseid was evil, distorted and had a singularity at his core. Existence became evil, distorted and became subsumed into a singularity. How much more obvious can you get? ALE is more than just mind-control. ALE does more than enslave hukmanity. As shown on-panel, as described on-panel, as evinced on-panel. After all, the mind control and enslavement aspects of ALE are only facets of the unimaginable whole that is the complete ALE. Who said that? Grant Morrison. Nuff said.

Done talking about the ALE, been through it enough. And no Superman etc was under his control, they could do nothing against him until The Flash returned, after that it was downhill from there. How can anyone prepare for someone who's dead to return? You can't especially after that long Barry's been gone. We got Barry back but lost a two others. Darkseid was right when he said "nothing like me will come here ever again'". 😎

Originally posted by kevdude
Done talking about the ALE, been through it enough. And no Superman etc was under his control, they could do nothing against him until The Flash returned, after that it was downhill from there. How can anyone prepare for someone who's dead to return? You can't especially after that long Barry's been gone. We got Barry back but lost a two others. Darkseid was right when he said "nothing like me will come here ever again'". 😎

NRAMA: Afterwards, Metron welcomes the Fifth World as the age of men as gods. Wasn't the Fifth World Darkseid's World and age?

GM: Sez Darkseid! Just as Hitler thought the future belonged to the Fuhrer and his glorious Thousand Year Reich, so does Darkseid overestimate his place in the Great Story.

Originally posted by Allankles
odg, I dare to tell us it's a power up or an entity that can reconstruct the universe, while at the same time calling it a mathematical equation.

How can a math equation be a power up? Mokkari downloaded it into the internet. Some of it was coded into the DNA of the morticuss (sp?) virus that infected Wonder woman. It was downloaded into the tech for the Justifiers' helmets. It was used by the spectre via Cain only after he had been unmade (enslaved) by the Spear of Destiny and the Spectre's own powerful metaphysical form was used as a buffer for the equation.

You don't become master of all existence simply by enslaving free will of humans. On-panel, all existence was warping to reflect Darkseid's own form; distorted, evil and descending onto a personal singularity. The humans literally becoming Darkseid is one plain and unavoidable manifestation of the affects of the ALE making all existence Darkseid:

Another plain and unavoidable manifestations of the effects of the ALE making all existence Darkseid are time and space cracking:

Yet another plain and unavoidable manifestation of the effects of the ALE making all existence Darkseid is the world being distorted such that there is instant global upheaval in the form of lightning crashing down, seas becoming tumultuous, firepits burning everywhere:

Originally posted by Allankles
Your shitty interpretations aren't supported by FC. It is a math equation that's why it needs a buffer, once in the buffer, it is translated so that it can infect whatever it comes into contact with in its new form.

If it was a powerup DS wouldn't need all those buffers to translate it, he would just reconstruct everything with his new space-time redesigner. Instead, he could only affect space time with a singularity that was emnating from his spirit, my guess, the ALE couldn't physically remake anything.

That's exactly what DS did. That's exactly what ALE did, on-panel, on two separate occasions. Suggesting otherwise requires baseless speculation. Suggesting otherwise requires either complete ignorance or silly use of purple prose logic to desperately explain away the clear presentation of on-panel evidence.

Originally posted by skyfather
Prime would utterly humiliate darksied.