Originally posted by Allankles
Except the ALE isn't a power up like a cosmic cube
You don't think 'absolute control' would be part of remaking the multiverse in your image? Or that the War in Heaven and him winning, when he's never been able to before, occured after he has the ALE? That's all coincidence?
Anyway, I have FC and the tie-ins and I've already read enough of your and OneDumb's arguments, and I agree with him on the matter, so... 😛
onedumbshit? Is that your new moniker, Trick?
Anywho, his stuff makes sense. Just like yours does. There's always contradictions in DC it seems. Hell, just like the "Black Racer can't go FTL" argument we were having...where it's right stated, but then he goes through a singularity which would lead you to believe he can. WTF?
So in short, there's evidence to support both sides, and I choose OneDumb's because I don't like you. 😛
Originally posted by Enyalus
You don't think 'absolute control' would be part of remaking the multiverse in your image? Or that the War in Heaven and him winning, when he's never been able to before, occured after he has the ALE? That's all coincidence?Anyway, I have FC and the tie-ins and I've already read enough of your and OneDumb's arguments, and I agree with him on the matter, so... 😛
🙁
As tp said odg make baseless theories. The ALE brought about a disastrous war in heaven, that doesn't mean it became a power up, when the FC article in question describes it as an equation that disproves the concept of free will.
Originally posted by Enyalus😂
onedumbshit? Is that your new moniker, Trick?Anywho, his stuff makes sense. Just like yours does. There's always contradictions in DC it seems. Hell, just like the "Black Racer can't go FTL" argument we were having...where it's right stated, but then he goes through a singularity which would lead you to believe he can. WTF?
So in short, there's evidence to support both sides, and I choose OneDumb's because I don't like you. 😛
Ok. Fair enough. 👆 We shall agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Enyalus
onedumbshit? Is that your new moniker, Trick?Anywho, his stuff makes sense. Just like yours does. There's always contradictions in DC it seems. Hell, just like the "Black Racer can't go FTL" argument we were having...where it's right stated, but then he goes through a singularity which would lead you to believe he can. WTF?
So in short, there's evidence to support both sides, and I choose OneDumb's because I don't like you. 😛
Some of what he says is right most wrong like the ALE, clearly hes wrong, everything in the material world is finally catching up with the events that happened beyond it in The Fourth World. As the ALE brought more beings under Darkseids control and more began to worship him he was able to begin to fully manifest in the Multiverse which his presence was to much and it started breaking down.. 😱
Originally posted by kevdude
he was able to begin to fully manifest in the Multiverse which his presence was to much and it started breaking down.. 😱
I assume you're talking about DS never 'showing his true form' until FC. And that's a BS interpretation. What DS says in FC 5 is just gloating. And the Secret Files thing? 'As with most of the weapons and artifacts from the higher vibratory world of the New Gods, we see only facets of the barely managable whole that is the complete Anti-Life Equation.' I wasn't aware Darkseid was an artifact...
I know Trick has posted a scan from NGv3 (I think it was) where Orion tells Darkseid the Boom Tube automatically shrinks them when they go to DC Earth's plane, but there's plenty of evidence against this. Off the top of my head you've got Genesis where all the heroes are brought to 4th World and are the same size as everyone else, without the aid of a Boom Tube. Ares was in fact larger than everyone else. Then you've got Apokolips Now where Superman, Supergirl, Superboy, Erads, and even Krypto are all roughly the same size as Darkseid and the other New Gods and parademons. Then most recently (I think) was Libra dispersing on this plane, traveling to 4th world and being reconstructed there...the same size as everyone else, also without a Boom Tube.
I'm sure there are plenty of other instances, but I really thought it was fairly obvious when Darkseid says, "They've only faced the idea of a God before" he was being his typical egotistical self. Much like any villain calls themself a god or says they're omnipotent, etc.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Then most recently (I think) was Libra dispersing on this plane, traveling to 4th world and being reconstructed there...the same size as everyone else, also without a Boom Tube.
Actually, when Supergirl went to Apokolips without a boomtube she was no more than an insect to the denizens of that world. So there is comic book evidence of this. And this was much more recent than the terrible Hunter/Prey or Apokolips Now.
Of course a lot of authors will overlook certain aspects of canon. But those are mostly oversights and not retcons since they probably took place before before NG v3 and the more recent super girl incident.
Also Libra had become one with the universe (a giant) and that event precipitated his arrival on the higher dimension of the 4th world. Bonding with the universe may well have acted like a matter threshold.
Originally posted by EnyalusI'm sure there are plenty of other instances
Also Libra had become one with the universe (a giant) and that event precipitated his arrival on the higher dimension of the 4th world. Bonding with the universe may well have acted like a matter threshold. It is also explained that Libra no longer has a body and new one was reconstitued on Apokolips, lending evidence that he had a new cosmic form much like the other New Gods.
In Genesis the other heroes were brought there by the New Gods as well and Ares became a giant to demonstrate that the power he had dwarfed all the forces arrayed against him. Again Genesis was before NG v3, so even if you disregard those factors it still takes place before Orion explained to Supes the deal.
Originally posted by Allankles
Actually, when Supergirl went to Apokolips without a boomtube she was no more than an insect to the denizens of that world. So there is comic book evidence of this. And this was much more recent than the terrible Hunter/Prey or Apokolips Now.
I don't know what you might be referencing (A Supergirl issue? I don't read that.) But in Superman/Batman she was her same size...so was Wonder Woman when she came, etc.
😐 And how does one get to 4th World (or 5th now) without the aid of a Boomtube?
Originally posted by TricksterPriestOk there. Nice summation of my argument that is completely uncharacteristic of anything I've said. I've wholly adopted everything that's been thrown my way and carefully addressed all your arguments. I've provided a slew of scans, manyof which none of you wish to repost because of how obviously they tend to undermine your theories. It's you guys that have to ignore that it was stated on-panel that the ALE cracked time and space, that DS' mastery of the ALE precipitated the war in heaven and his own fall, that humans could shoot Omega Finder beams out of their eyes and that Morrison himself reveals that DS was tooting his own horn the entire time. Good luck there. Maybe we can debate about how many wishes Superman made with the Miracle Machine again. 😂
You mean onedumbshit who uses subjective evidence that's contradicted by on-panel descriptions, half the books, and even Grant ****ing Morrison himself? 🙄
Originally posted by Allankles
As tp said odg make baseless theories. The ALE brought about a disastrous war in heaven, that doesn't mean it became a power up, when the FC article in question describes it as [B]an equation that disproves the concept of free will. [/B]
It goes on to state in the very next few sentences that what we've so far seen of the ALE are "only facets of the barely imaginable whole that is the complete Anti-Life Equation." Meaning, the mind-control aspect is a mere facet. Try presenting everything to the audience (which unfortunately for you, clearly undermines your argument), instead of one piece that you can isolate in the hope that nobody actually clicks on the scan and reads for themselves. Your continuing accusations that my theories are baseless might be less laughable if you behave as such.
Originally posted by kevdudeTurpin fighting DS was what kept DS from manifesting, not any deficiency in beings under his control. I'm not sure what you're saying is really supported by anything we saw in Final Crisis. Additionally, this interpretation would tend to undermine the collective theory that the ALE had nothing to do with DS' fall and folding of the Multiverse.
Some of what he says is right most wrong like the ALE, clearly hes wrong, everything in the material world is finally catching up with the events that happened beyond it in The Fourth World. As the ALE brought more beings under Darkseids control and more began to worship him he was able to begin to fully manifest in the Multiverse which his presence was to much and it started breaking down..
Originally posted by BadabingBecause they know that I've corrected nearly a dozen mistakes concerning their reading of Final Crisis which even they've acknowledged, wholly separate and apart from any debate over Darkseid and the ALE. Because they also feel threatened by the stock that my interpretation has started to garner because it actually makes sense and is supported on-panel. As such, because their own arguments have actually conflicted with each other, they try to resort to appeal to numbers fallacies and engage in ad hominem attacks since they can't argue against simple, plain language as presented by Morrison and the comics themselves...
Why are people getting bashed in a thread they haven't yet posted?
...
... or they're just schmucks. dur
Originally posted by Enyalus
'As with most of the weapons and artifacts from the higher vibratory world of the New Gods, we see only facets of the barely managable whole that is the complete Anti-Life Equation.' I wasn't aware Darkseid was an artifact...
"As with" would be the important part of that sentence.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0It goes on to state in the very next few sentences that what we've so far seen of the ALE are "only facets of the barely imaginable whole that is the complete Anti-Life Equation." Meaning, the mind-control aspect is a mere facet. Try presenting everything to the audience (which unfortunately for you, clearly undermines your argument), instead of one piece that you can isolate in the hope that nobody actually clicks on the scan and reads for themselves. Your continuing accusations that my theories are baseless might be less laughable if you behave as such.
Yeah first of all its not mind control. And the article already clearly defines the anti-life equation. To the beings of the multiverse the anti-life equation merely resembles mind control but it is a concept that disproves the concept of free will.
It is an abstract weapon, that is why its whole is "unimaginable", I don't know why you want to continue tooting your baseless theories, when the article in question has already defined what it does - disproves the concept of free will.
It's an abstract weapon, not a power up.
Darkseid cannot abide a universe that doesn't reflect his "perfect" vision, that's the reason why he seeks the ALE, so that only his vision prevails in the hearts and minds of all beings.
Thats where the quote "All is one in Darkseid" comes from, to unite all sentient beings in a universe where the old god's free will has been replaced with darksied's anti-life.
Morrison already explained this exactly in his FC interviews.