Superboy Prime vs Darkseid (h2h)

Originally posted by Allankles
Yeah first of all its not mind control. And the article already clearly defines the anti-life equation. To the beings of the multiverse the anti-life equation merely resembles mind control but it is a concept that disproves the concept of free will.

It is an abstract weapon, that is why its whole is "unimaginable", I don't know why you want to continue tooting your baseless theories, when the article in question has already defined what it does - disproves the [B]concept of free will.

It's an abstract weapon, not a power up.

Darkseid cannot abide a universe that doesn't reflect his "perfect" vision, that's the reason why he seeks the ALE, so that only his vision prevails in the hearts and minds of all beings. Morrison already explained this exactly in his FC interviews. [/B]

Furthermore, nothing of the above actually goes to undermine any of my assertions. Also, you need to take your argument to comicfan11, kevdude, Tricksterpriest and The Great Galen. They have continually asserted that the ALE is only mind-control. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That is a possible, but not probable interpretation of the scan. Reasons: Mastery of ALE precipitates war in heaven and DS' fall. ALE cracked time and space. Humans infected by ALE can shoot Omega Finder Beams from their eyes. Life Equation fixes Multiverse.

Furthermore, nothing of the above actually goes to undermine any of my assertions. Also, you need to take your argument to comicfan11, kevdude, Tricksterpriest and The Great Galen. They have continually asserted that the ALE is only mind-control. Nothing more, nothing less.

Allankes is right, I have never said the ALE is 'just' mind control I said its that and more. It strips free will of all sentient beings and makes them one with Darkseid, that is why his Omega Beams shoots out of the peoples eyes, they are Darkseid, one mind one will that IS Darkseid. I don't think the others disagree with that either. You are not paying close enough attention.

Also the ALE theory of yours has already been debunked of cracking space and time. WE KNOW it was Darkseid that cracked it. With the ALE going world wide and all those beings started to worship DS he became more powerful and began his ascension into reality. The Miracle Machine made for 1 wish and it was for a happy ending considering all the depressing things that happened in FC. The GL Corps and the Supermen of the Multiverse stated by Nix Uotan fixed Symmery of the Orrery, as they dragged the Earth back to its original place. 😎

Originally posted by Enyalus
How is that significant? I underlined what was significant.

Originally posted by fangirl101
meaning weapons and artifacts TOO. Meaning just like the Gods have only been seen in their weakest forms.

It doesn't mention gods. It only refers to weapons and artifacts of 4th World. There's nothing in there about only seeing a fraction of the gods true forms, and whatever.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It doesn't mention gods. It only refers to weapons and artifacts of 4th World. There's nothing in there about only seeing a fraction of the gods true forms, and whatever.

Read the whole thing "As with" important and " higher vibratory world of the New Gods" important 😉

Jesus christ...........people are claiming that the new god weapons and technology is outside comprehension and perception, but not the New Gods themselves? Even though that was the entire point of FC and clearly illustrated via Libra....?

Originally posted by kevdude
Allankes is right, I have never said the ALE is 'just' mind control I said its that and more. It strips free will of all sentient beings and makes them one with Darkseid, that is why his Omega Beams shoots out of the peoples eyes, they are Darkseid, one mind one will that IS Darkseid. I don't think the others disagree with that either. You are not paying close enough attention.

Originally posted by kevdude
Also the ALE theory of yours has already been debunked of cracking space and time. WE KNOW it was Darkseid that cracked it.

Originally quoted by kevdude
With the ALE going world wide and all those beings started to worship DS he became more powerful and began his ascension into reality. The Miracle Machine made for 1 wish and it was for a happy ending considering all the depressing things that happened in FC. The GL Corps and the Supermen of the Multiverse stated by Nix Uotan fixed Symmery of the Orrery, as they dragged the Earth back to its original place.

As for the LE as utilized by the Miracle Machine, what would the reverse of what I believe the ALE wrought be? Since I believe the ALE wrought massive damage to the Multiverse, then I must believe that the LE reverses and fixes said damage. And it does. How much more obvious can you get?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. Look at your own posts in the past. If you need help, search for the words "mind" and "control" and your own username under advanced search. It's what you've said before I started debunking that myth. As with each other poster I listed. Furthermore, taking a person's will does not not allow you to start shooting Omega Finder Beams out of their flippin eyes. Only by making their bodies literally his own, such that their existence is his, can you do that. Which is exactly more support that the ALE does more than just strip free will. Which is exactly more support that the ALE makes all existence you as I've continually asserted.
False and completely unsupported. Nowhere is it stated that DS cracked it. Yet in two other on-panel instances, two other things are attributed to cracking space and time, both of which have to do with the ALE. The war in heaven which is specifically precipitated by the mastery of the ALE and the release of the ALE by Mokkari over the Internet. Sorry. But if you posted a scan that said DS cracked time and space and I continually refused to accept it, you'd scream bloody murder. As it is now, I can just keep posting the scans and look on with pity that you can honestly sit there and suggest the weight of evidence is on your side. When the ALE was released over the Internet, time, space, everything cracked. That's it. A press of a button. On-panel.
DS became more powerful because the ALE was making everything him. You just agreed with everything I've been pointing out. I even warned you in the prior post that was happening and you still ended up doing it. That's fine, because that's how any logical reading of Final Crisis leads to even if you didn't realize it. If you become master of all existence, then all existence warps to approximate you, your image, your state of being. How would all existence warp if someone left a void in your heart? All existence would become a void, a singularity. How would all existence begin manifesting into a singularity? The fabric of space and time cracks and everything begins folding in on itself. What cracked time and space on-panel? ALE. What makes you master of all existence in the first place, as stated ON-PANEL? ALE.. Nuff said.

As for the LE as utilized by the Miracle Machine, what would the reverse of what I believe the ALE wrought be? Since I believe the ALE wrought massive damage to the Multiverse, then I must believe that the LE reverses and fixes said damage. And it does. How much more obvious can you get?

Well I was comparing it to mind-control when I said that, I've also said it does more then that as it makes everyone who hears it makes them Darkseid. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. About the Miracle Machine we know Superman made 1 wish and that was for a good ending. Something else it did was reshrink and bottle the whole universe for protection from Mandrakk since the Black Hole which was where DS heart used to be and his fall caused it. (on the page after Mandrakk dies). Nix says "the germ-creatures Themselves reestablished the Symmetry of the Orrery, the "Multiverse" as they call it". On panel. The Miracle Machine (w/LE) did 1 thing while the GL Corps and the Supermen of the Multiverse did something else.

For the last fing time Trick, Allan Kev one question:

1. Could DS with a wave of his hand created the sigularity and starting dragging the multiverse down with him? Could with a wave of his hand he fold time and space like a piece of paper?

I think we all know the answer to these questions and that answer is NO he couldn't have done that with just his standard powerset. That is well beyond him to do and we all know he couldn't do it with a gesture. If it was that easy we would've seen him do this long ago or similiar stuff a long time ago. The facts are these.....

1. The war on panel was stated to crack time and space
2. Him falling caused the singularity NOT DS doing it with his own powerset
3. The ALE is way more then mind control which is what you guys were arguing at first. Then got proven wrong and changed your argument. However, the fact remains once DS mastered the ALE he won the war and the ALE helped him do all that he did and again NOT his own power. The ALE on panel as soon as it was spoken cracked time and space.

You ask how is the ALE a powerup... Well it's simple really.... have others used the ALE besides DS for their own purposes? Shoot it being spoken on the radio cracked time as space along with many others who have used it. You try and throw out all those times but the fact is it did happen and others can use the ALE which thus makes it a powerup NOT part of his normal powerset.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
For the last fing time Trick, Allan Kev one question:

1. Could DS with a wave of his hand created the sigularity and starting dragging the multiverse down with him? Could with a wave of his hand he fold time and space like a piece of paper?

I think we all know the answer to these questions and that answer is NO he couldn't have done that with just his standard powerset. That is well beyond him to do and we all know he couldn't do it with a gesture. If it was that easy we would've seen him do this long ago or similiar stuff a long time ago. The facts are these.....

1. The war on panel was stated to crack time and space
2. Him falling caused the singularity NOT DS doing it with his own powerset
3. The ALE is way more then mind control which is what you guys were arguing at first. Then got proven wrong and changed your argument. However, the fact remains once DS mastered the ALE he won the war and the ALE helped him do all that he did and again NOT his own power. The ALE on panel as soon as it was spoken cracked time and space.

You ask how is the ALE a powerup... Well it's simple really.... have others used the ALE besides DS for their own purposes? Shoot it being spoken on the radio cracked time as space along with many others who have used it. You try and throw out all those times but the fact is it did happen and others can use the ALE which thus makes it a powerup NOT part of his normal powerset.

The singularity is a result of DS total manifestation existing in a lower dimension (No more 4th world to house it), a sign of the level of power he's at, it's not a matter of a mere powerset but a matter of existing amongst lesser beings, in a lesser dimension.

He was the only New God that survived the war (Metron being the other). The other dark gods were recreated by DS according to how he remembered them, this is a theme carried over from Kirby about DS ability to resurrect the other Apokoliptans when they have died, it was an interesting idea in Hunger Dogs.

No. I never argued that the ALE is mind control. It is an abstract weapon, whose whole is unimaginable to the beings of the multiverse. A weapon that actually destroys concepts (in this case the concept of free will), you can't fully fathom how such a weapon would function, or be designed.

That's why even the components of the equation as it is given (the words) barely scratch the surface of what this concept killer is, that's why it's an abstract weapon.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
For the last fing time Trick, Allan Kev one question:

1. Could DS with a wave of his hand created the sigularity and starting dragging the multiverse down with him? Could with a wave of his hand he fold time and space like a piece of paper?

I think we all know the answer to these questions and that answer is NO he couldn't have done that with just his standard powerset. That is well beyond him to do and we all know he couldn't do it with a gesture. If it was that easy we would've seen him do this long ago or similiar stuff a long time ago. The facts are these.....

1. The war on panel was stated to crack time and space
2. Him falling caused the singularity NOT DS doing it with his own powerset
3. The ALE is way more then mind control which is what you guys were arguing at first. Then got proven wrong and changed your argument. However, the fact remains once DS mastered the ALE he won the war and the ALE helped him do all that he did and again NOT his own power. The ALE on panel as soon as it was spoken cracked time and space.

You ask how is the ALE a powerup... Well it's simple really.... have others used the ALE besides DS for their own purposes? Shoot it being spoken on the radio cracked time as space along with many others who have used it. You try and throw out all those times but the fact is it did happen and others can use the ALE which thus makes it a powerup NOT part of his normal powerset.

From what we have seen of lesser New Gods (creating small universe's), its not to hard to grasp that Darkseid who is the most powerful next to Highfather would be able to do it in full power, the thing is thats not what he wants, his goal was to destroy New Genesis then rule creation as they was the only beings able to stand against him. He ignored the Monitors who are also outside of the Multiverse and suppose to take care of the Multiverse, his attack was against NG. So there you go

Originally posted by Allankles
The singularity is a result of DS total manifestation existing in a lower dimension (No more 4th world to house it), a sign of the level of power he's at, it's not a matter of a mere powerset but a matter of existing amongst lesser beings, in a lesser dimension.

He was the only New God that survived the war (Metron being the other). The other dark gods were recreated by DS according to how he remembered them, this is a theme carried over from Kirby about DS ability to resurrect the other Apokoliptans when they have died, it was an interesting idea in Hunger Dogs.

No. I never argued that the ALE is mind control. It is an abstract weapon, whose whole is unimaginable to the beings of the multiverse. A weapon that actually destroys concepts (in this case the concept of free will), you can't fully fathom how such a weapon would function, or be designed.

That's why even the components of the equation as it is given (the words) barely scratch the surface of what this concept killer is, that's why it's an abstract weapon.

Okay both Allan and Kev you guys didn't answer any questions I posed because we all know the answers. NO he couldn't have just done what went down in FC with just his power set alone. Your argued for points that I didn't make and for things I already know and skipped over the questions. However, it's all good as we all know the answers. He couldn't have done what went down with a wave of his hand under his own power set. He needed all those things to fall into place into for things to play out the way they did. You further when on talking about what the ALE is and finally concede that it's more then what has been portrayed and more then just mind control. The things it can do is beyond imagination. That's all great and points ODG has been arguing this whole time. However, my question was.. have others used the ALE for their own benefit? It's really a simple question with a simple answer that goes directly to the fact that it's a power up of sorts not his and his only power set. Again, you guys keep talking about importance and no place to house him etc etc. I don't disagree with that and agree his importance and housing is what lead to things happening. Which is further my point that ISN'T his power causing the singularity to form or space and time to crack. He's not waving his hand and all this is happening. It was stuff out of his control and his importance and place in the universe that caused it all. Concession accepted.

I can't think of a single being under galactus that can take SBP in hand to hand.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay both Allan and Kev you guys didn't answer any questions I posed because we all know the answers. NO he couldn't have just done what went down in FC with just his power set alone. Your argued for points that I didn't make and for things I already know and skipped over the questions. However, it's all good as we all know the answers. He couldn't have done what went down with a wave of his hand under his own power set. He needed all those things to fall into place into for things to play out the way they did. You further when on talking about what the ALE is and finally concede that it's more then what has been portrayed and more then just mind control. The things it can do is beyond imagination. That's all great and points ODG has been arguing this whole time. However, my question was.. have others used the ALE for their own benefit? It's really a simple question with a simple answer that goes directly to the fact that it's a power up of sorts not his and his only power set. Again, you guys keep talking about importance and no place to house him etc etc. I don't disagree with that and agree his importance and housing is what lead to things happening. Which is further my point that ISN'T his power causing the singularity to form or space and time to crack. He's not waving his hand and all this is happening. It was stuff out of his control and his importance and place in the universe that caused it all. Concession accepted.

Yes we answered your question, read again. He could have forcibly gone to the Monitors and rip down the wall and break it from inside the chamber then seep in under his full power and destroy everything (unless The Source sends someone from Heaven) he would not be stopped. 2. Others have used the ALE, been used in DC and Vertigo but everything the ALE is is for DS himself, it in the end = Darkside.

The true form. That's the one thing every marvelite ignores. If the ALE is beyond imagination, WHY NOT THE NEW GODS THEMSELVES?

You can't think in more than 2 dimensions. It's inconceivable, that a being from a higher realm entering a lower one, would be disastrous for the lower. 🙄

A devil god from the 4th world crashed into the Earth and his entry into the lower dimension crushed space/time and began dragging the multiverse into a doomsday singularity where his heart used to be.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I can't think of a single being under galactus that can take SBP in hand to hand.

✅

New Gods in true form are not to be ****ed with. They are from the 4th world. Which really is a step up from the 3rd dimension. they would be just under the imps in power. Since the imps hail from the 5th dimension. Now that there is a5th world, they may have stepped up the ladder again.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
wonder woman's braclets would block everything thrown at her, then she decapitates him with the lasso.

✅

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The true form. That's the one thing every marvelite ignores. If the ALE is beyond imagination, WHY NOT THE NEW GODS THEMSELVES?

You can't think in more than 2 dimensions. It's inconceivable, that a being from a higher realm entering a lower one, would be disastrous for the lower. 🙄

A devil god from the 4th world crashed into the Earth and his entry into the lower dimension crushed space/time and began dragging the multiverse into a doomsday singularity where his heart used to be.

Your exactly right and that goes directly to his importance as crashing down into a lower dimension. Nobody is arguing that and that is my point. However, none of that was from his own power set causing that to happen as a matter a fact from the start not much was under his control in causing it to even happen in the first place. Your arguing my point trick. His presence in this dimension and importance power etc etc caused all shit to go haywire. No problem however, it was ds waving his hand and his power set causing all that happened is the only point.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I can't think of a single being under galactus that can take SBP in hand to hand.

Galactus is renowed for h2h. I see him using his exotic powers to defeat prime not his h2h.