Originally posted by Terryc250
Exactly, and if its fired directly at you, the speed is INSTANT. Dodging it is impossible for any human.Dodging a whip is far easier because you have all the time that the person pull his arm back, to the momentum building up from the hand throughout the whip before the end reaches the speed.
It's the same for people in real life, you never actually dodged a bullet, the person simply missed.
You.. Fail. You cannot dodge before the loop is tugged, because the attack hasn't been decided yet. You can move out of the way of a gun before the trigger is pulled, a whip doesn't broadcast itself like this, so yes, he is dodging a sonic boom.
In reality, not counting range [because Link can't get out of range in MM so it's moot] a gunshot is actually easier to avoid.
Originally posted by Burning thought
So we have a vid or something showing us him dodging the whips outside of gameplay?
Nope, Zelda games never cutscene the combat, ever. You're forced to play it out. There's an official manga, but it's non-canon. Logicly though, Link can't reach Majora with his sword, he has to get in, Majora is attackign him, he has to get out of the way or he is goign to lose, there's no other way for Link to win.
Zelda games essentially hold the boss fights as canon.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Irony in what? I'm not even "nitpicking". I'm logically questioning you.You're trying to claim Link can dodge the speed of sound because one of the bosses in Zelda used whips, that's stupid as hell.
There's so many flaws and holes in that.
among many other variables.
Lets move onto other things. and Sephiroth Gimps Link.
Originally posted by Burning thought
So we have a vid or something showing us him dodging the whips outside of gameplay?
Alright, let me catch you up on what this guy is trying to claim.
First he gave me a wikipedia link to Sound_barrier, in the Sound barrier wikipedia page, it said some bullwhips, the tip is able to break the sound barrier.
Then he posted a gameplay video of Link fighting a boss using whips.
Now, Links new feat is that he has reaction time capable of dodging the speed of sound dur
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Nope, Zelda games never cutscene the combat, ever. You're forced to play it out. There's an official manga, but it's non-canon. Logicly though, Link can't reach Majora with his sword, he has to get in, Majora is attackign him, he has to get out of the way or he is goign to lose, there's no other way for Link to win.Zelda games essentially hold the boss fights as canon.
It's like if one of us wrote up a fan fiction and put it in comic form and nintendo decided to publish it.
I hate the manga for an advent reason. Sheik is not a guy -.-
Originally posted by Terryc250
Alright, let me catch you up on what this guy is trying to claim.First he gave me a wikipedia link to Sound_barrier, in the Sound barrier wikipedia page, it said some bullwhips, the tip is able to break the sound barrier.
Then he posted a gameplay video of Link fighting a boss using whips.
Now, Links new feat is that he has reaction time capable of dodging the speed of sound dur
Lol. I've explained to you a hundred freaking times how whips work, Link had to fight Majora, and part of that is gettign aroudn the whips. The whips do break the sound barrier when they attack, especially when manipulated by a beign as powerful as Majora. Majora's whips are FAR beyond any regular whip, denying that is rediculous. The only way Link's eleven year old self could possibly beat Majora is to dodge the whips, which is canon and Nintendo holds the bossfights as canon, you never watch Link fight anyone, you always do it yourself, this is not FF, or DMC.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You.. Fail. You cannot dodge before the loop is tugged, because the attack hasn't been decided yet. You can move out of the way of a gun before the trigger is pulled, a whip doesn't broadcast itself like this, so yes, he is dodging a sonic boom.In reality, not counting range [because Link can't get out of range in MM so it's moot] a gunshot is actually easier to avoid.
Then you cannot dodge until the bullet is fired directly at you. Which is basically instantly hitting you. Dodging is impossible you wouldnt even have time to blink.
Nothing stated that Link legitimately dodged the whips. He could've "moved" out of the way making it miss him, or whatever.
gunshot is NOT easier to dodge then a whip, jeez.
two guys standing across from eachother lets say 5 meters apart, both standing directly facing eachother, all the gunman has to do is pull the trigger before the guy moves out of the way, and the person will be shot.
Pulling back with a whip isn't instantly the speed of sound.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol. I've explained to you a hundred freaking times how whips work, Link had to fight Majora, and part of that is gettign aroudn the whips. The whips do break the sound barrier when they attack, especially when manipulated by a beign as powerful as Majora. Majora's whips are FAR beyond any regular whip, denying that is rediculous. The only way Link's eleven year old self could possibly beat Majora is to dodge the whips, which is canon and Nintendo holds the bossfights as canon, you never watch Link fight anyone, you always do it yourself, this is not FF, or DMC.
I know the fight between Link and Majora is canon. But how the fight played out is moot. You can't claim he dodged every single one of Majora's attacks. For all we know he most of them with his shield, and got hit a bunch of times as well.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Nope, Zelda games never cutscene the combat, ever. You're forced to play it out. There's an official manga, but it's non-canon. Logicly though, Link can't reach Majora with his sword, he has to get in, Majora is attackign him, he has to get out of the way or he is goign to lose, there's no other way for Link to win.Zelda games essentially hold the boss fights as canon.
The fight against the boss is obviously canon but the actual battle that transpired in the gameplay cannot be considered canon nor logically sound to base feats of off and heres why:
gameplay balance
Gameplay balance is why gameplay feats such as damage, speed or durability is never typically or logically considered, ofcourse some things are logical, for example I would always debate that the Soulreaver in gameplay blasting apart enemies in a single slash is pretty logical for the magical blade because thats what its supposed to do, however in gameplay against the player, you would have to take into account what is a balanced way of play, what is fair, and what is fun.
If these whips are as you say moving at the speed of sound because thats what whips do, we cannot assume that is the case in the gameplay even if it would be in reality, because gameplay is measured around what players could actually react to, and how to play the game.
If Link had an outside of gameplay feat it would be more accurate to use it as a canon feat.
Also is his sword the only weapon he has against this guy? perhaps if its the master sword its doing what you considered in the Kain vs thread, slowing or making them seem slow to link, or preventing the speed of the whips from overwhelming Link, just an idea similiar to what you think the Mastersword does.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Then you cannot dodge until the bullet is fired directly at you. Which is basically instantly hitting you. Dodging is impossible you wouldnt even have time to blink.Nothing stated that Link legitimately dodged the whips. He could've "moved" out of the way making it miss him, or whatever.
gunshot is NOT easier to dodge then a whip, jeez.
two guys standing across from eachother lets say 5 meters apart, both standing directly facing eachother, all the gunman has to do is pull the trigger before the guy moves out of the way, and the person will be shot.
Pulling back with a whip isn't instantly the speed of sound.
1 Once a whip is cracked the same is true.
2 If Link moved before it was cracked Majora would have just adjusted his aim and Link would still have to dodge.
3 If you take range out of the equation a gunshot is easier to *avoid*, dodging one is on par with the other, infact, many bullets do not break the sound barrier.
Originally posted by Burning thought
The fight against the boss is obviously canon but the actual battle that transpired in the gameplay cannot be considered canon nor logically sound to base feats of off and heres why:gameplay balance
Gameplay balance is why gameplay feats such as damage, speed or durability is never typically or logically considered, ofcourse some things are logical, for example I would always debate that the Soulreaver in gameplay blasting apart enemies in a single slash is pretty logical for the magical blade because thats what its supposed to do, however in gameplay [b]against
the player, you would have to take into account what is a balanced way of play, what is fair, and what is fun.If these whips are as you say moving at the speed of sound because thats what whips do, we cannot assume that is the case in the gameplay even if it would be in reality, because gameplay is measured around what players could actually react to, and how to play the game.
If Link had an outside of gameplay feat it would be more accurate to use it as a canon feat.
Also is his sword the only weapon he has against this guy? perhaps if its the master sword its doing what you considered in the Kain vs thread, slowing or making them seem slow to link, or preventing the speed of the whips from overwhelming Link, just an idea similiar to what you think the Mastersword does. [/B]
That is entirely different than what the sword does, it prevents things like curses ala ganondorf's/Zant's wolfening, and essentially is a plot device to ensure there actually is a fight.
Link did not have the master sword to fight Majora, he had the Kokiri sword/razor sword/Gilded sword, basicly different stages of the same sword.
furthermore: Zelda games never have had combat cut scenes, particularly in the n64 era when the few short cutscenes used scripted gameplay, essentially Link's model moved without the player touching his controller. So you're assertign if in one of these cut scenes Link dodged exactly as he woudl outside one, it'd be more valid?
To assume that MAJORA's whips are anything less than beyond what any human could accomplish with a bullwhip is rediculous.
you can avoid whip attacks by simply moving out of the tips radius before the tip builds up the momentum to reach the speed of sound
the person has to pull his arm back
throw his arm forward with the whip
snap his arm back
then the momentum builds up from the person hand, throughout the whip, whiplashing the tip of it, the very tip eventually travels at the speed, making the *crack* noise or breaking the sound barrier.
If the person can move out of the area of effect of the tip, while hes throwing the whip and pulling back, he's safe. But not literally dodging the speed of sound
Originally posted by Terryc250
you can avoid whip attacks by simply moving out of the tips radius before the tip builds up the momentum to reach the speed of soundthe person has to pull his arm back
throw his arm forward with the whip
snap his arm backthen the momentum builds up from the person hand, throughout the whip, whiplashing the tip of it, the very tip eventually travels at the speed, making the *crack* noise or breaking the sound barrier.
If the person can move out of the area of effect of the tip, while hes throwing the whip and pulling back, he's safe. But not literally dodging the speed of sound
I already told you range is moot because Link had nowhere to go, Majora's whips, both of them, were logn enoguh he could never escape their range.
Once the whip is extended and ready to attack, the tug of the loop causes the extreme acceleration of the tip that breaks the soudn barrier, THIS is the attack section that needs to be dodge,d you cannot dodge before this because the attack hasn't told you where it's going to land yet, and Majora coudl still change his mind.
No he can't change his mind after he pulls back. Once he pulls back after he throws his whip forward, the direction is dictated. And once he pulls back, Link has about half a second to a second to evade. If he can anticipate and observe his arm movement as to what direction Majora pulls back, he can side step, or dive out of the way
Originally posted by Terryc250Negative, the direction is not decided until the loop is tugged and the whip is cracked, then Link has less than a second to react. It's suprisingly easy for someone with skill to keep a whip in motion, considering Majora's a supernatural being and the whips were his prehensile arms possessed of super strength, moreso.
No he can't change his mind after he pulls back. Once he pulls back after he throws his whip forward, the direction is dictated. And once he pulls back, Link has about half a second to a second to evade.
Can we move on to something else? I'm tired of repeating myself, you've tried a couple times to straw man this feat and it hasn't worked, pick something else to discuss.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1 Once a whip is cracked the same is true.2 If Link moved before it was cracked Majora would have just adjusted his aim and Link would still have to dodge.
3 If you take range out of the equation a gunshot is easier to *avoid*, dodging one is on par with the other, infact, many bullets do not break the sound barrier.
bullets travel faster then breaking the sound barrier.
Typical bullets travel at 3,600 km/h or 1,000 m/s
A rocket car broke the sound barrier travelling at 1,640 km/h