Sephiroth vs Link

Advent Children was accepted but not your lawlanime.

As for the vids themselves. You need to take into account that they were on a moving train in the first one where it's hard to stay steady and the fact they hardly seem to be taking time to aim and are just spraying wildly, hopping to hit a target some where with in their bullets. I mean, really what is the normal accuracy and shooting percents of those soldiers? where are their statistics.

Give me a gun and I'll spray and if I don't hit you, that doesn't mean you dodged or evaded the bullets. "dodging" is not the same as getting sprayed at.

the second video is a better representation for what you're trying to show but, that's anime -.-

Originally posted by Voyeur

As for the vids themselves. You need to take into account that they were on a moving train in the first one where it's hard to stay steady and the fact they hardly seem to be taking time to aim and are just spraying wildly, hopping to hit a target some where with in their bullets. I mean, really what is the normal accuracy and shooting percents of those soldiers? where are their statistics.

Well actually the second time he was standing still on the ground and stood there and didn't flinch.

The second one is anime, and he was obviously doing his best to evade the shots, and in the first video, he only actually deflected three shots, the rest of the bullets were all victims of terrible aim. In the second, one shot glances off of the sword on his back, luck!

and there's a huge difference between 3000 km and 5000 km, that's over 2 machs.. 5 and 12? Lol. And if you were obviously doing you best to avoid something moving at five, you're a vegetable and twelve will hit you.

"Maybe he'll struggle". No.. I'm utterly convinced that something moving at 5000 k/m would be farrrr beyond anythign Zack could handle, and beyond Sephiroth aswell.

In the CG video the bullets were visible to the viewer's eye, there's no way they'd be faster than 860 m/s.

Even if I take the anime as evidence there's no way Sephiroth could dodge something at 5000 km/h or faster.

so for me to suggest we agree that Sephiroth would need somethign to move that fast is extremely generous of me in this debate.

No.. you don't literally see every bullet that should be obvious. Just seeing some beams of light doesn't equal every bullet is visible. In the CG there was about 7 guys, all firing, you can even hear countless bullets firing out, yet you see only about 4 beams of light. Does that mean only 4 bullets fired out? No.

Again you can't take what you see in a video, then say its not real life physics. Some CG's/anime present things in a different style. It doesn't mean shit, take the anime and CG for example, in the anime the bullets weren't visible, in the CG you saw some beams of light.

And dodging 3500km/h bullets, hundreds per second from countless gunmen all firing from every direction, without a single one hitting you is harder then dodging a single bullet travelling at 5000 km/h.

Bullets only move at around 500km/ph... well those fired from pistols & assault rifles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectiles#Typical_projectile_speeds

Assault Rifles 920m/s = 3312km/h

Originally posted by Terryc250
And dodging 3500km/h bullets, hundreds per second from countless gunmen all firing from every direction, without a single one hitting you is harder then dodging a single bullet travelling at 5000 km/h.

This is like saying it's easier for you or me to dodge a high powered sniper bullet than several dodgeballs.

Except a high powered sniper is like a thousand times faster then a dodgeball.

And it wasn't "several" bullets, but hundreds per second from every direction.

Originally posted by XanatosForever

Link's Feats

strength:

As to strength, Let me math.. He lifted a stone pillar resmebling black granite closest (a VERY heavy stone known for being retardedly heavy.)

granit article v
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rmr/definition.html

an old reference says an "average" granite has a density of about 166.5 lb. per cubic foot, or about 2.6 times what the same volume of water would weigh. If its what commercial stone dealers call a "black granite" the density would likely be much higher."

K, working with only what we can SEE in this image, let's assume conservatively that Link is slightly above average height, around 6'2" or more seems reasonable, so we'll go with six. this rock is aprox 12208.32 cubic feet in volume. (JUST the visible part in the pic, not including the top half.) Now, if that means the average weight of white granite is 166.5 lbs per cubic foot... *math* 2032685.28 Lbs. That's the weight of JUST the visible portion of the pillar if we assume Link is 6' and the stone is light granite as opposed to black granite.

If a ton is 2000 lbs thats 1016.3 tons. and he THROWS IT.

Now I have to find something on black granite because that's the stone the pillars in OoT closest resemble.
BLACK GRANITE!

"Cambrian Black granite

Absorption by weight: 0.101%

Density: 179 pounds/cubic foot

(2,874 kg/cu.m)

Compressive strength: 22,122 psi (153 Mpa)

Modulus of rupture: 1,868 psi (12.92 Mpa)"

http://www.stoneworld.com/Articles/...000f932a8c0____ <--article.

Math time. 12208.32 (volume in cubic feet) x 179 (lbs per cubic foot) = 2185289.28 lbs. Just the visible portion. Link. Is. Amazing.. I didn't expect it to be THAT heavy.. wtf.. 1096.64 tons. .

Originally posted by XanatosForever

Link like many others who are brought up has his own multiple forms to be able to shape shift and his strength as Goron Link is able to take down a Mechanical-Organic giant, super bull with his body alone. Not to mention the giant slabs he is able to punch away with ease while in the dungeon.
YouTube video

yahuzz link is super versatile, he has many forms and Items, we havent gone through them all yet. XD

Originally posted by XanatosForever
endurance:

Link surviving an explosion he took a point blank radius while still inside the Moon, that eventually disintegrated it (this scene is done in slow motion, rainbow is there for happy ending effects) Now 'Dawn of A New Day' is easily translated into only a few minutes time since with the Moon destroyed the Day would be immediate.

Link fell from that height of the Moon after surviving the explosion and the only counter argument to that has been there is no crater where he landed. Well last I checked if a humanoid is dropped from any height, extreme or not, there is no crater of impact because they are not heavy in weight. The explosion radius is clearly contained with in the Moon and so inertia kicks in and is canceled. So force of impact is all with in that moment of explosion, then Link would simply drop from the point there after.
example: suicide victims of 9/11 did not create craters and fell from greater heights.
YouTube video

another one is that as young Link, by only using the Hylian Shield on his back while crouching alone can withstand the pressure and weight of the King Dodongo. That is only his young body with out fully being physically developed it both situations.
YouTube video

Also I have posted a nice equation a bit earlier:

For links durability I have another little example which I posted earlier in link vs dante(remember link dont gets hurt by this at all):

lol did some counting on when TP link is sent away by the cannon to the city in the sky

watch this vid for understanding what it is about

YouTube video

okay so the height of the city in the sky is about 5000 meters, I assume that cause it is above the thick clouds which end at this height, I guess that link weighs about 100 kilograms, He has some serious muscle mass and a heavy gear to move around(its also a nice number to count with XD). i guess the gravity is the same as here on Tellus(9.82) but since Im lazy I say its 10. I assume there is no air resistance(cause Im lazy XD).

okay to count how much energy link needs to get to the city in the sky I use this formula:

mgh=E

m= mass of the object in this case link
g= gravity, I said I will use 10 as number here
h= height above starting point
E= energy

gives

100*10*5000=5* 10^6 (LOL)

so 5 millions of joule LOL thats much

then further on I can count what speed link travels at at the beggining with this formula:

(mv^2)/2=E

m= mass
v= velocity
E=energy

gives:

(100*v^2)/2=5*10^6
100*v^2=10^7
v^2=10^5
v= aprox. 320 m/s which is about 1000 km/h

this is a good proof of what link can stand, remeber that there is lots of energy lost when shooting away something with something as inaccurate as cannon as(much ass XD) sound and heat also into the ground that absorbes some of the energy LOL.

link doesnt take any damage of this fligth btw

The moon destructs with link in it?theres no doubt there is a destrucion of the moon and link is certainly inside it. Well actually this is the most fun part of the whole thing cause you have said it vaporized, collapsed, disappeared and that it has no logical disappearing and thus has no energy involved, you have changed your statement everytime we have showed that it still should harm link pretty badly. So pick one that can logically leaves some type of particles(since there is a rainbow left) and this time stick with that.

I say it is burning cause it really looks like that, the colors can be explained by that diffrent materials has diffrent flame colors, and the rainbow could be the still burning particles that has becommen so light that the air is carrying the particles, the diffrent materials could have diffrent lightness which means they will be sorted so that you can se a nice rainbow this seems like the most logical to me.

Originally posted by XanatosForever

Speed;Agility;Reflex:

Also noted in this fight that Majora uses whip based weapons that are able to travel faster then the speed of sound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_barrier That means those attacks from Majora break the sound barrier, which means they are faster then the speed of sound, and Link can react and dodge them accordingly. Link is faster then the speed of what it takes to break the sound barrier. And thus upon breaking it, and Link showing he can dodge them with ease proves his speed, agility and reflex all in one go. Young Link, Adult Link or any of his forms would all be capable of this respectively.

and then we also have zant which TP link handles with ease, I have cleared the game with 3 lives(which means no extra heart containers) btw so this guy sucks.
YouTube video

as you see zant uses confusion tactics, insta teleportation and can levitate, I won against him only loosing one heart(I lost it when he started his teleportation spinning), but it is possible to win against him without loosing a single, no problem, btw those balls he is shooting is the same magic midna uses(midna is the imp that aids link in this game)

Originally posted by terry[/I
]]lootic, Link has no feats of being smarter then Sephiroth, thats baseless claims.

exactly my point. this is what your sephiroth being stronger than link statement is, cause there is no proof of sphiroth being stronger than link.

sword that repels evil?
the master sword repels evil magic and curses

cutscene that cures link from curse starts at 0:35
YouTube video

ganon uses dark magic against link at 1:15 and some serious quick spinning at 2:26 yea thats right HoT link can use his magical spinattack all the time if he wants to(thats how I used to combat in OoT and MM)YouTube video

btw didnt you wanted the debate to have a nicer tone or was it only that my namecalling beated yours that made you go to peach and report me. Not that Im against the rules, I really think the rules and mods here is pretty good and you did the right thing to report me violating the rules, its just that you didnt really stop your flaming, lol

Lootic provided me with a great point here, if we limit Link's strength by how much he's shown to lift instead of the maximum, why am I so lenient for Sephiroth's speed? Seph couldn't dodge 4500 km/h by feats..

And the dodgeball argument is perfectly valid BECOZ, from 3300 k/h [the number you want to use] to 5000 k/h is 2 mach's. Two entire times the speed of sound, which I offered you to accept as enough to tag Sephiroth out of sheer generosity. If Sephiroth's best feat is taking on Zack, really, seeing as Zack's attack's are not at the speed of bullets, I could really say he might even be slower than Zack with better reaction time.

There's no evidence of his reaction time being able to dodge something at 4000 k/h, so I srsly sug-jest you accept 5000 km/h before I decide to get critical.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lootic provided me with a great point here, if we limit Link's strength by how much he's shown to lift instead of the maximum, why am I so lenient for Sephiroth's speed? Seph couldn't dodge 4500 km/h by feats..

And the dodgeball argument is perfectly valid BECOZ, from 3300 k/h [the number you want to use] to 5000 k/h is 2 mach's. Two entire times the speed of sound, which I offered you to accept as enough to tag Sephiroth out of sheer generosity. If Sephiroth's best feat is taking on Zack, really, seeing as Zack's attack's are not at the speed of bullets, I could really say he might even be slower than Zack with better reaction time.

There's no evidence of his reaction time being able to dodge something at 4000 k/h, so I srsly sug-jest you accept 5000 km/h before I decide to get critical.

@ Lootic, I've seen alot of those videos, if you don't mind, stop copying and pasting things that have been posted about 6 times already, I've seen that strength feat already.

And once again, you cannot use gameplay as a feat. It's like me saying Sephiroth can take 6 deathrays from outer space because i used Bahamut Zero on Sephiroth in gameplay.

Yea and he throws it, funny isnt it, he hasnt shown the maximum he can lift, Ive heard sephiroth hasnt either, anyway I can call for a tie at this one, even though I think link has shown more feats of his strength than your sephiroth

The master sword breaking a curse =/= him being invulnerable to everything evil.

THe second video, the damn little fairy wasn't even harmed, the fairy just said it couldn't get close. The dark waves was harmful to no one.

btw didnt you wanted the debate to have a nicer tone or was it only that my namecalling beated yours that made you go to peach and report me. Not that Im against the rules, I really think the rules and mods here is pretty good and you did the right thing to report me violating the rules, its just that you didnt really stop your flaming, lol

die thread die

the throw, does infact, get it's own cutscene. You just press A to innitiate it 😆 And by feats seph's like, class 10 or something.

Anyway, your argument is flawed, it wasn't hundreds per second seeing as assault rifles don't fire that fast, heavy vehicle mounted machine guns do. So there were multiple gunmen, that does not = hundreds per second, which btw, Zack had to work his ass off to avoid.

By feats, Zack actually has better reaction time than Seph, but isn't fast enough to make full use of it in his attacks, Seph probably has better reaction time. [I've changed my mind, I'm aware this is different than what I said before, but this makes more sense now that I think about it.] I can't see Seph ever dodging anything at 4000 km/h, let alone five..

die thread die

I know man, I know, it'll be over soon, I just want to prove Link can win by somethign as sily as throwing something, it's really gotten that bad.

three questions:
First one is, if you have already seen those vids why would ask for proof of exactly those things? And aint it nice if everything is sumarized in one post it gets more easy to read that way?(this is one question XD)

how is link using his Items a problem? i mean yes he is only that strong with gauntlets on but he never takes em off lol. Sephiroth uses a sword, there are nothing in the OP that says they should figth unarmed, lol

About the power of repel evil:
What are you talking about? why would those waves of darkness not be harmfull navi gets totally useless for all the time link battles ganon, navi is not harmed any other time during the whole quest but this time. why is it so that our proof isnt enough? Exactly what do you want?(this also only counts as one question XD)

I never questioned the throw once, I know it's not gameplay, but i'm just saying you can't use battle damage as feats because the battle is gameplay. You can't say Link took a hit from so&so and survived, because again gameplay balance kicks in, its game mechanics. Just like how we can't use Bahamut Zero shooting a deathray from outer space 30 times at Sephiroth, and Sephiroth still being fine.

An M16 assault rifle (which are the same guns the shinra men were using) fires off 13 rounds per second, now multiply that by atleast 10 people and you have well over 100 bullets per second, from all directions.

Zack didn't have to work his ass off to dodge them, he didn't even break a sweat, when they started trying to fight him hand to hand, he was just like "heh". He was obviously confident he can dodge them no problem.

Lootic has already acknowledged Sephiroth is about as strong as Link with the gauntlets.

@lootic, the only "proof" i ask for is that The master sword makes Link immune to anything evil. Which you have not actually proven to me yet. So Navi couldn't get close to Ganon because of the waves? Navi isn't even strong, probably a powerful fan would've blown Navi away. That's hardly real evidence. Ganons energy attacks still harm Link, Ganons fists still harm Link, they're "evil". Sephiroth NL would definately harm Link.

Originally posted by Terryc250
I never questioned the throw once, I know it's not gameplay, but i'm just saying you can't use battle damage as feats because the battle is gameplay. You can't say Link took a hit from so&so and survived, because again gameplay balance kicks in, its game mechanics. Just like how we can't use Bahamut Zero shooting a deathray from outer space 30 times at Sephiroth, and Sephiroth still being fine.

An M16 assault rifle (which are the same guns the shinra men were using) fires off 13 rounds per second, now multiply that by atleast 10 people and you have well over 100 bullets per second, from all directions.

Zack didn't have to work his ass off to dodge them, he didn't even break a sweat, when they started trying to fight him hand to hand, he was just like "heh". He was obviously confident he can dodge them no problem.

Lootic has already acknowledged Sephiroth is about as strong as Link with the gauntlets.

@lootic, the only "proof" i ask for is that The master sword makes Link immune to anything evil. Which you have not actually proven to me yet. So Navi couldn't get close to Ganon because of the waves? Navi isn't even strong, probably a powerful fan would've blown Navi away. That's hardly real evidence. Ganons energy attacks still harm Link, Ganons fists still harm Link, they're "evil". Sephiroth NL would definately harm Link.

130 =/= hundreds =P

I think you misinterpretted Lootic, as English is his second language.

You "baseless claims"

exactly my point. this is what your sephiroth being stronger than link statement is, cause there is no proof of sphiroth being stronger than link.

The argument isn't "anythign evil". It's that it protects Link from things that affect him directly such as curses, TK, death effects, blah blah. there's debate over whether the source of the effect has to be evil, but that doesn't matter because Sephiroth is.

and Zack was clearly doing his best to avoid them, and some of those were narrow misses. A railgun slug, for instance, would have been WAY beyond his ability to dodge.

So, 5000 km/h would tag Seph without recourse, correct? =]

[Also, FYI, fairies are infact very powerful magic beings.. Their small size doesn't mean they're fragile, Navi is often in the direct path of things attacking Link... who is about the size of a big man and fights giant dragons and such..]

I mean a hundred per second.

Again, there is no evidence the sword makes Link invulnerable to evil things like TK. Curses, sure, because there is evidence of that. But that's it.

Narrow misses? When dodging things, if you have enough skill, you can just move slightly to where the bullets are firing at. You don't need to dodge a meter away from the bullet. Zack showed no sign of effort at all, and dodged them with confidence.

No, because again, dodging hundreds of bullets from every direction all coming at 3300km/h, is harder then dodging a single 5000km/h bullet.

If we put it in realistic human terms,
It's like saying whats harder, dodging a hundreds of dodgeballs all coming from every direction at 33km/h, or dodging a single dodgeball coming at 50km/h ?

That's gameplay, show me Navi actually shrugging off hits from a giant dragon.

Originally posted by Phanteros
the sword protects link from curse and sickness, not from melee fighting. the NL makes people sick right? so that is an illness

Originally posted by Terryc250
I mean a hundred per second.

Again, there is no evidence the sword makes Link invulnerable to evil things like TK. Curses, sure, because there is evidence of that. But that's it.

Narrow misses? When dodging things, if you have enough skill, you can just move slightly to where the bullets are firing at. You don't need to dodge a meter away from the bullet. Zack showed no sign of effort at all, and dodged them with confidence.

No, because again, dodging hundreds of bullets from every direction all coming at 3300km/h, is harder then dodging a single 5000km/h bullet.

If we put it in realistic human terms,
It's like saying whats harder, dodging a hundreds of dodgeballs all coming from every direction at 33km/h, or dodging a single dodgeball coming at 50km/h ?

That's gameplay, show me Navi actually shrugging off hits from a giant dragon.

No, the lifestream is capable of being physical, it aided in disintegrating Meteor, and has killed alot of people, it destroyed Sephiroth body when he jumped in, the negative lifestream is the lifestream contaminated with Jenova cells, thus under Sephiroths influence.

Negative, it's more like "several" dodgeballs because of how much larger they are, versus a high powered sniper bullet, we're talking multiple times the speed of sound. Zack would not stand a chance against a railgun slug, for instance.

also, Zack was moving in such a way as to put them in each other's line of fire, so moving quicker would be wiser, and yet there were very narrow misses on the way there.

And such occurs in the 'official' [non canon though] manga. Fairies = powerful magical beings = canon though. They're all through the Zelda series for a reason.

the difference between 33 and 50 is the same as the difference between 3300 and 3317, not 5000 k/h.

4500 k/h would tag Seph or Zack without recourse. Let alone 5000k/h.

Actually, for teh lulz.. Here, tell me, how fast do YOU think somethign would have to move for Seph to be unabler to avoid it?

Originally posted by Terryc250
I mean a hundred per second.

Again, there is no evidence the sword makes Link invulnerable to evil things like TK. Curses, sure, because there is evidence of that. But that's it.

Narrow misses? When dodging things, if you have enough skill, you can just move slightly to where the bullets are firing at. You don't need to dodge a meter away from the bullet. Zack showed no sign of effort at all, and dodged them with confidence.

No, because again, dodging hundreds of bullets from every direction all coming at 3300km/h, is harder then dodging a single 5000km/h bullet.

If we put it in realistic human terms,
It's like saying whats harder, dodging a hundreds of dodgeballs all coming from every direction at 33km/h, or dodging a single dodgeball coming at 50km/h ?

That's gameplay, show me Navi actually shrugging off hits from a giant dragon.

No, the lifestream is capable of being physical, it aided in disintegrating Meteor, and has killed alot of people, it destroyed Sephiroth body when he jumped in, the negative lifestream is the lifestream contaminated with Jenova cells, thus under Sephiroths influence.