Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So much fail, so little time.1. Yes I have, you're in denial.
2. Not getting crushed by enough force to throw two million pounds of granite at 75 m/s isn't durability? WRONG. Also, the gauntlets increase his strength, they do not do the kifting for him, this is canon fact. And you are the one who's speculating, not I. Your denial is legendary.
3. If he created it, how'd it come from somewhere else? That he created it is moot, he does it in aLttP aswell, and not to something he created. "battle feat" is moot. He doesn't even need to be nearby to do it, and Zelda can teleport, and Ganon's bubble certainly stops that. =]
So you're speculating again? Did it show Zelda try to teleport and it not working? Zelda has been kidnapped a bunch of times and she couldn't teleport away. Show me Zelda teleporting instantly whenever she wants.
4. In the canon, Link does not get hurt by less, no. So yes, I can deny it.
Link wouldn't be dead at all, because Sephiroth cannot hurt him. This is spite. [/B]
Um no, because you haven't provided any evidence. Do you keep forgetting that evidence and speculation are different things?Your ignorance amazes me. I've posted plenty of evidence which you are in simple denial of.
IIt's the Gauntlets which supports all the weight, all the pressure. Again if Link had that strength in his body to begin with, he wouldn't have needed the gauntlets. And if the gauntlets gave his body that strength, then he would have had a dramatic increase in all physical attributes (which he didn't). So all the strength is only in the gauntlets, not his entire body.False/Previously debunked.
It's something he summoned from another dimension. How he summoned it is unclear, and how he banished it back to a diffeent dimension is unclear as well. There is no evidence Ganon can do it whenever, anyplace, and to whoever he wants on a whim.So you're speculating again? Did it show Zelda try to teleport and it not working? Zelda has been kidnapped a bunch of times and she couldn't teleport away. Show me Zelda teleporting instantly whenever she wants.
1. He created it, he did not summon it from anywhere, he gave it life and being. And yes, there is evidence he can do it, because he does exactly that in aLttP.
2. I don't speculate, that's your excuse for losing this debate, over and over, I suppose.. 1:24 YouTube video
And she does it all the time in OoT, aswell.
Yes in canon actually. You know the game developers wouldn't put certain things in the game if it weren't capable of harming Link. The fact that in EVERY game, everything far less is capable of hurting Link.Sephiroth can destroy him in so many ways, it's Link who cannot do anything to Sephiroth, he'd be dead in less then a second. It's spite in Sephiroths favor.
1. No. Lots of games include grunts who can't actually hurt the protagonist in the canon, DMC, FF7, Spiderman, Mario, Zelda, ect. It's cimple gameplay, which would be boring if they let Link walk around invincible.
2. You're wrong again, Sephiroth has NEVER shown the strength required to so much as break Link's skin. =] Sephiroth dies, this is spite in Link's favour, everyone sees it but you.
In conclusion, Ganon> Seph. Link>Seph. Me>You. All of those are spite.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Your ignorance amazes me. I've posted plenty of evidence which you are in simple denial of.
False/Previously debunked.
1. He created it, he did not summon it from anywhere, he gave it life and being. And yes, there is evidence he can do it, because he does exactly that in aLttP.
2. I don't speculate, that's your excuse for losing this debate, over and over, I suppose.. 1:24 YouTube video
And she does it all the time in OoT, aswell.
1. No. Lots of games include grunts who can't actually hurt the protagonist in the canon, DMC, FF7, Spiderman, Mario, Zelda, ect. It's cimple gameplay, which would be boring if they let Link walk around invincible.
2. You're wrong again, Sephiroth has NEVER shown the strength required to so much as break Link's skin. =] Sephiroth dies, this is spite in Link's favour, everyone sees it but you.In conclusion, Ganon> Seph. Link>Seph. Me>You. All of those are spite. [/B]
Quit dreaming, honestly i've never seen a level of fanboyism on these forums for a ong time. Link tanking universal explosions rofl. It's a good thing no one on these boards (save your little Link clique) believes your bs. Well its obvious anyway, no one is that stupid.
You're lucky I have nothing better to do than to give you your bi-hourly thrashing, or you'd have to go wanting, Terry. Sick little masochist. <3
Umm no, you've posted speculation. Evidence would be something like Ganon trying to TK Link, and it failing because of the sword. That would be evidence.See the gratuitous PILE of evidence, which you claim as speculation because you can't debunk it.
Wrong
Srsly tho, I haz teh canon on meh sidez!
Well it's from another dimension hence Phantom Ganon (ˆÙŽŸŒ³ˆ«—ìƒtƒ@ƒ“ƒgƒ€ƒKƒmƒ“, Evil Spirit of Another Dimension: Phantom Ganon). Show me Ganon instantly doing it his foe infront of him, prove to me he can do it anywhere, anytime, to any person. Again, it goes back to my analogy of Sephiroth returning his remnants he created back to the negative lifestream, it wouldn't mean he can do that to anyone else.
That doesn't explain why she couldn't do it all the times shes been kidnapped.
Yeah there are SOME, in DMC there are demons who can harm Dante, in FF7 monsters can harm the party. You're basically claiming every single thing besides Ganon isn't capable of harming Link in reality, which is BS.
Yes he has, Link obviously isn't as durable as you make him out to be. Game facts > Your speculation remember?Quit dreaming, honestly i've never seen a level of fanboyism on these forums for a ong time. Link tanking universal explosions rofl. It's a good thing no one on these boards (save your little Link clique) believes your bs. Well its obvious anyway, no one is that stupid.
I love this part. I get to say "Canon>Your speculation, remember?", and then point out the irony of you calling me a fanboy in a thread that utterly spites a character you're defending.
You done yet? Cause I don't even need sleep to keep on winning. 45 Pages of win, I'm on a roll.. Keep it up, I'm gonna go for the record.
Terry. You don't want to start getting into Sheik and Zelda with me. Just take my word. In the scene shown above, Zelda teleports through dimensions by going into the realm of the spirit guardians. But in Ocarina of Time, she teleports with light signature flashes, just like how I freaking explained to you Sephiroth does.
In side that bubble, in side that other dimension, that is is the limits of distances you could teleport. Sephiroth can't teleport through dimensions or worm holes to cut out distance over time. He needs to, as you have said, dematerialize and rematerialize. but you see when he does that, those particles and trapped and can only reform on that plane of existence, that universe/world.
I know this will go on for 10+ pages of you not waning to back down or understand.
@8:11: that is Impa, a Sheikah, who taught Sheik (Zelda) how to do that same type of teleportation. I have other video of Sheik actually doing it, but I don't want to soil her awesomeness.
YouTube video
=]
It's simple. If you can cut rifts into dimensions and worm hole port, you're not restricted. But if you need to dematerialize and rematerialize like Sephiroth and OoT Zelda/Sheik, then you're restricted to reforming only in that same dimension/universe/world. You're stuck in that plane of existence. So that little bubble is like a siphon and a miniature dimension. That is why she can't teleport out of it. The same effect would happen if he teleported some one away and sealed them into another dimension.
And I agree with you Terry, I told Shin that when he posted it. Phantom Ganon is a ghost, and Ganondorf is shown to have profound necromancy also in Twilight Princess, so it would be easy to assume that Ganondorf can only fully damn ghosts to the gap between dimensions. But He can seal mortals into a pseudo (that bubble) gap dimension. A miniature fraction of another universe, trapped over some one. But, Twilight Ganondorf can warp you to any where on that plane of existence, he can send an opponent tu and fro through the Twilight and seal them there if he wanted to, at a mere throught. And in A Link to the Past Ganondorf seals and damns all the Seven Sages & Seven Maidens away into other dimensions. So, my theory of how he can only do it to ghosts or his creations, as is yours, is 100% false.
I had to debunk myself when I brought up that idea and it stands. Ganondorf Dragmire can indeed banish people, even of high caliber magical power and psychokinesis (Telepathy, teleportation, Telekinesis) like Zelda (who also gets a boost to those abilities from the Triforce of Wisdom). So yeah. Trust me.
Zelda TP can teleport through dimensions. Zelda/Sheik in OoT can not. So when Ganondorf sealed her into the pseudo dimension bubble, she couldn't teleport out. It'd be futile. She'd just poof, and reappear back inside it. And Ganondorf can not seal or do such things to Link because, of the master sword. Which is why your Sephiroth wouldn't be able to do anything like TK or shit to Link.
@0:14 to 0:38
You'll see that Ganondorf tries to banish Link into a void of darkness by opening up a dimension rift. But the Master Sword prevents such attempts. You'll also see Ganondorf can levitate, via Telekinesis. In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf also puppets and controls Zelda via Mind control/Mind warping(Telepahty) when she was with out her Triforce of Wisdom.
YouTube video
@2:00 to 2:31
Read the text that Ganondorf banished the very beings who created and forged the Master Sword into other dimensions. And then you see him using Telekinesis to toy and puppet a maiden, and then seal her into the gaps between dimensions. Same thing he tries to do to Link, same sort of thing he uses to banish Phantom Ganon. Ganondorf has the power to seal other beings to dimensions, and he can TK, and Telepathy mind rape, but the master sword protects Link from all that since it repels evil and harm to the wielder.
YouTube video
Games do not need to use any kind of scientific method of any kind to allow teleportation, Sephiroth is at one point then he is at another that is all, there is no speed it is just instant. Again, games do not need to follow any theory before or after for anything ever. You cannot say Sephiroth dematerialises you can say he is at one point then he is at another THAT IS ALL.
ScreamPaste, if you say I WIN or YOU SUCK it doesn't make it true, until everyone is convinced of one winning then no-one has yet won. Also from what I have seen you really do make up random things about Link, like you think the Golden Gauntlets require the user to have a certain amount of durability to be able to have the strength of a god which is not right, they give you the strength of a god and that is all. No ifs or buts about it.
Quick example, Link grabs the gauntlets and punches through a wall with his new strength, then throws a piece of the wall 1000 miles into the air, and waits for it to hit him, when it hits him, it kills him.
This is not a Ganondorf vs Seph thread so don't try and make it one.
The one thing you haven't thought about is Seph using the NL to bolster his speed, strength and durability (yes he can do this, and he can do it to a massive degree.) Omega Wiess was using the lifestream that Omega had absorbed(not really the right word) and he deflects bullets with his arms and moves faster then the speed of light. I really don't want to get into the way the lifestream works as it would take many pages and I would have to type it.
Originally posted by K1ll3rYou didn't read the portion of the thread where I congratulated you on actually debating, I guess? And I do win, Terry's posted nothing of note. I never posted "you suck", either. Ohwell. And no, you're not understanding logic. Strength=/=durability. If you can exert more force than you can withstand, you're stronger than you're durable, and throwing a massive pillar isn't right for you. Link is shown to be incredibly durable by taking hits from Ganon, regardless of the throwing feat. He also survived the destruction of the moon. The gauntlets give you the strength to throw massive stone pillars, they do not give you the durability to survive the extreme forces this applies to your body.
ScreamPaste, if you say I WIN or YOU SUCK it doesn't make it true, until everyone is convinced of one winning then no-one has yet won. Also from what I have seen you really do make up random things about Link, like you think the Golden Gauntlets require the user to have a certain amount of durability to be able to have the strength of a god which is not right, they give you the strength of a god and that is all. No ifs or buts about it.
Quick example, Link grabs the gauntlets and punches through a wall with his new strength, then throws a piece of the wall 1000 miles into the air, and waits for it to hit him, when it hits him, it kills him.
FACT ALERT: You cannot throw something over your shoulder, no matter HOW strong you are, if the force required to do so would crush you into paste.
This is not a Ganondorf vs Seph thread so don't try and make it one.Terry brought Ganon into this, not I, read the thread more closely. Ganon>Seph to the point of spite.
The one thing you haven't thought about is Seph using the NL to bolster his speed, strength and durability (yes he can do this, and he can do it to a massive degree.) Omega Wiess was using the lifestream that Omega had absorbed(not really the right word) and he deflects bullets with his arms and moves faster then the speed of light. I really don't want to get into the way the lifestream works as it would take many pages and I would have to type it.
Hyperbole. Show me proof it can boost him to "faster than the speed of light". [which is impossible, I'll add.] By feats Sephiroth has never been close to that fast.
Edit: You should also see topic 1b, section A, line 4. Sephiroth =/= Omega Wiess.
Bonus edit; People constantly whining about theory being applied to teleportation need to realise no debate can be had if no info is available, thus, it's common sense to use the best and most probable explanation, as Voyeur does.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Games do not need to use any kind of scientific method of any kind to allow teleportation, Sephiroth is at one point then he is at another that is all, there is no speed it is just instant. Again, games do not need to follow any theory before or after for anything ever. You cannot say Sephiroth dematerialises you can say he is at one point then he is at another THAT IS ALL.
Teleportation has laws and rules. Like any other science fiction created thing.
And, Terry used the word dematerialize. and In fact from the videos I saw posted of Sephiroth's teleportation, he does indeed phase in and out from his teleports. Showing clearly he's breaking down into a particles. If you don't want to accept that he breaks down, and then his matter is transferred to the desired respawn point, then he is simply moving at fast speeds. Which you have no proof to show how fast he is actually moving other then that he's invisible to the normal naked human eye. Which isn't hard to accomplish.
None the less. Show feats of Sephiroth going through dimensions or pocket universe. Because T H A T is the ONLY time teleportation is instant. Speed is Distance over Time. When you use worm holes and dimensions, the plane of space, which is distance is eliminated. And Time becomes void. So it is instant at a finite speed.
But other then that. Teleportation is the means of breaking down into a particle level, having his particles transfered else where, and then reforming into the original anatomical form. I don't care if you want to accept that or not. That is how it works in all situations. And in Sephiroth's case, it is the Jenova cells breaking down into sub-atomic levels, moving, and then forming again. Which honestly, those cells would need to move along the frequency of light protons. Meaning he can go the speed of light during teleportation. You don't want to except that either? Fine, dgaf.
The burden of proof is on you guys to show how fast Sephiroth actually goes, other then "instant." Because that word, is so vague, I could debunk you left and right on it, until you provide your own solid numbers at how fast Sephiroth Travels. You don't want to accept my generosity? Don't.
Until then, Sephiroth just moves fast. He is still in his full physical, tangible form. Link just needs to attack him with something faster and win. That is, unless you want to accept my offer that he teleports, breaks down into particles, and travels on proton energy waves & frequency to reach Light speed. ... -.-
@ ScreamPaste - Bihourly thrashing? Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. All you're doing is FAILING.
Pile of Evidence? This "pile" is not "evidence", please go learn the difference. I've given you tons of examples of what evidence is. Everything you post is pure speculation, everyone knows that.
That's great, its title is "of another dimension". So that mean's he's from another dimension.
So show me Ganons "bubble".
Umm no it's not, because every single thing is capable of harming Link in the game. If Link was that powerful the developers would have made the opponents more powerful, so they are capable of harming him. Instead of using arrows, and all that. Link simply isn't as durable as you're speculating.
Yeah maybe in you're fanboy dreams. Everyone outside of your little Link clique knows Sephiroth curbstomps Link. Link wouldn't even last a second. 45 pages of making a fool out of yourself.
@ Voyeur - There is still no evidence Ganon can do it to anyone, anyplace, anytime he likes. The video you posted of Ganon attempting at banshing Link and the fairy wasn't impressive at all. It didn't even succeed in banishing the fairy, it would do absolutely nothing to Sephiroth.
Again in the alttp video, it was simply text, nothing suggests he can do it in the heat of a battle, anyplace, anytime, anywhere. For all we know, it took him alot of time and preperation to do it.
Again, voyeur you're trying to define teleportation to the scientific method. Which is not right. I've given you the definition of teleportation.
For example, the definition of time travelling isn't a method like "opening a wormhole, and going into it" it's simply "travelling back and forth through the time line" the method could be fictional, or scientific. Either way it's still "time travelling"
Its no different from teleportation. Teleportation is simply disappearing and reappearing at a diffrerent location. It could be the scientific method, or a fictional method.
Terry. I am describing how teleportation works, in SCIENCE FICTION. Worm holes, dimension rifting, the particles breaking down, HARK! Guess what? That is how it works in science fiction, made up stuff. I told you. Humans made up teleportation. So when they first described it, it was probably based on some way of how this would actually work and usually that is using science as a medium. Magic, paranormal. All things in science fiction and fantasy have a description to how they work, their origin, etc. Just because I'm explaining to you how teleportation works, doesn't always mean I'm talking about in real life science. So get over yourself.
And I don't know wtf you're going on about with Time Travel. No one even brought that into the conversation. Did you invent teleportation? No. It was first brought up in the 1940s, or earlier, even in other early civilizations and cultures. So who are you to give it definition by your own perception? You can't. So how it is described in other means, is what we go off of. Not your own radical opinions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation
But Fine, then Sephiroth never teleports. I never see him actually teleporting. I just see him shining white and jumping high. Or shining white and moving really fast. He just moves fast. He never teleports. He just phases in and out of speeds. And there's a difference.
I mean your only defense of debating at this moment, is refusing to accept the obvious. Then fine, it can go both ways. That's how futile it is debating with you. You never post facts Terry. Like honestly, this is coming from me, with out any interjection. You don't post facts. Everything you post, is speculation and your perception, what you view Sephiroth is doing or capable of. You never show us real stuff. And when you posted videos, it's of other random characters. I mean, you think cinematic effects are what the characters are really capable of. Like Rocky slow motion punching some one, does Rocky actually slow down time? No. haha I mean, that's what it is like talking to you and your way of thinking some times. There is no logic.
I don't think Sephiroth teleports. He just glows and moves really fast. And then just phases from attacks and moves around. He just moves fast that our normal human naked eyes can't see it.
Even if I gave you the benefit of the doubt and says he can teleport, there's no proof he can do it any where at far distances. For all we know it takes him a long preparation time. Or he just destroys himself and creates a new copy some where else with Jenova cells that move 'fast'. But not speed of light or anything. See how retarded all that sounds? That is how you sound when you think you're debunking our proofs.
And stop calling us a clique, a group. Because honestly. What makes me different from Will, or Kiler. & TGE. or Fascist. They have debated on Sephiroth's behalf. Are they your little clique? No. So stfu kindly about that non sense. I just am simply a person separate of my own showing you that you're indefinitely wrong and that Link is capable of so much more. The fact I happen to debating for the same character Scream is or others, just happens to be so. But I'm not a clique, a group. I'm my own person genius. I just happen to be debating on Link's behalf. Honestly. The next time we're accused of socks, a group, or w/e it is, I'm going to take it as bashing and harassment, because I'm sick of it -.-
I also like how you think Fairy's are weak. But in the Legend of Zelda universe, it is Fairys who act as oracles and representations of the Goddesses who created the very Universe. Fairys have high magical prowess and spiritual connection. They are blessed to be the guardians in Hyrule, sort of like Angels I guess if you want to use such religious stupidity. Navi explained she had to drain and give up all her power to withstand being banished. That's why she's weakened after that. So she had to use up her own magical ability and source to protect her self. It tapped her out. And even in the end of the game you can assume that using all her life, magic and holy source to fight Ganon, caused her to fly up into the heavens and die. Physically and endurance wise, Fairys are weak. But in the sense of magical power, they are some of the greatest beings in the land of Hyrule. Hence, even Low level fairys can resurrect you back to life in full. And the other great Fairys bless you with the spells of the goddesses, increase your great spin attacks magical range and power, and give an overall life buff to increase Link's health and durability. Fully heal & bring you back from death. So, I think Navi can easily use her own abilities to protect herself from being sealed too.
So once again, kindly stfu, because it's obvious none of you have any knowledge of Fanatasy and Science Fiction. You think EVERYTHING i say is in a scientific explanation. But that isn't the case. I'm literally explaining to you how common and obvious manners in how these fiction based actions operate. I.e. teleportation, telekinesis, telepathy, magic (fairys), dimensions, curses. etc. etc.
@6:16 to End. Ganondorf, seals Zelda into bubble, TK's her from his castle, then teleports her. This is because of Ganondorf's evil power and a tainted Triforce of Power. So that evil can't work on Link because he's protected by the aura of the Master Sword. It Repels wicked and evil. I'll even find you the video where it says how the master sword prevents Zant (who is only powerful because Ganondorf) from using evil powers to hex him and banish him in Twilight.
YouTube video
Oh and if you want to bring up dumb stuff like, things were put in the game to hurt Link, so that doesn't make him durable. Then let me point out, you can also Tank hits from Iron Knuckles and Even the Dark Lord Ganon himself at the end. You can even Jump off the very top of Death mountain, and simply roll, with out a scratch. So I mean, you want to bring up mechanics of the game play of what can hurt Link? fine. Link survived and tanked amazing hits in the game. So you're just hurting yourself.
Pile of Evidence? This "pile" is not "evidence", please go learn the difference. I've given you tons of examples of what evidence is. Everything you post is pure speculation, everyone knows that.And yet you've never debunked any of it. =]
That's great, its title is "of another dimension". So that mean's he's from another dimension.And yet the canon description is that he created it, and even he himsefl says he created it.So show me Ganons "bubble".
Voyeur just posted it, just so we're clear, not only does Ganon not need to be on screen to use his over powered abilities, he's pretty much omnivoyant, and can see what's going on everywhere at once... And couldn't just bubble Link, like he could Zelda.. Cuz of teh sword.
Umm no it's not, because every single thing is capable of harming Link in the game. If Link was that powerful the developers would have made the opponents more powerful, so they are capable of harming him. Instead of using arrows, and all that. Link simply isn't as durable as you're speculating.Yeah maybe in you're fanboy dreams. Everyone outside of your little Link clique knows Sephiroth curbstomps Link. Link wouldn't even last a second. 45 pages of making a fool out of yourself.
Also, my 'fanboy' clique has fewer members than your fanboy clique, and yet the poll is nearly even, AND you're the only one left who hasn't given up because ALL the evidence is on Link's side.
And stop calling us a clique, a group. Because honestly. What makes me different from Will, or Kiler. & TGE. or Fascist. They have debated on Sephiroth's behalf. Are they your little clique? No. So stfu kindly about that non sense. I just am simply a person separate of my own showing you that you're indefinitely wrong and that Link is capable of so much more. The fact I happen to debating for the same character Scream is or others, just happens to be so. But I'm not a clique, a group. I'm my own person genius. I just happen to be debating on Link's behalf. Honestly. The next time we're accused of socks, a group, or w/e it is, I'm going to take it as bashing and harassment, because I'm sick of it -.-I also like how you think Fairy's are weak. But in the Legend of Zelda universe, it is Fairys who act as oracles and representations of the Goddesses who created the very Universe. Fairys have high magical prowess and spiritual connection. They are blessed to be the guardians in Hyrule, sort of like Angels I guess if you want to use such religious stupidity. Navi explained she had to drain and give up all her power to withstand being banished. That's why she's weakened after that. So she had to use up her own magical ability and source to protect her self. It tapped her out. And even in the end of the game you can assume that using all her life, magic and holy source to fight Ganon, caused her to fly up into the heavens and die. Physically and endurance wise, Fairys are weak. But in the sense of magical power, they are some of the greatest beings in the land of Hyrule. Hence, even Low level fairys can resurrect you back to life in full. And the other great Fairys bless you with the spells of the goddesses, increase your great spin attacks magical range and power, and give an overall life buff to increase Link's health and durability. Fully heal & bring you back from death. So, I think Navi can easily use her own abilities to protect herself from being sealed too.
Quoted for emphasis, oh, and furthermore, I'd like to point out, the attack was centered on Link and it still put Navi 100% out of commission until Link puts Ganondrof down for a couple seconds.