The Empire versus the ID4 Alien fleet......

The Empire from Star Wars versus the Alien fleet from Independence day.

The ID4 fleet has found the SW universe and have decided to use it for it's natural resources, just as they planned to do to Earth in the movie "Independence Day." The Empire recognizes the threat at the last minute and launch every Star Destroyer and TIE fighter (And whatever else they had in the Star Wars movies) to intercept and destroy the ID4 fleet.

Below is a map of the Star Wars universe:

The ID4 fleet must enter SW space on the outskirts of the universe (Kathol sector, Ssi-Ruuk star cluster, Tingel arm, Wild space, etc😉 and make their way to Coruscant to achieve victory. Whereever they decide to enter, the Empire will be waiting for them. Can the ID4 fleet make it to Coruscant? If not, how far will they make it?

SCENARIO 1: No Death Star for the Empire.

SCENARIO 2:The Empire has the Death Star from Episode 4.

SCENARIO 3: The Empire has the Death Star from Episode 4 AND the partially completed Death Star from Episode 6.

Given that we know the ID4 ship has a diameter of 150km and a mass of roughly 1/4 of earth's moon.

The death star is said to be roughly the same size.

There is no evidence that the ID4 mothership has any large weapon or even small energy weapons with which to defend itself

We also know that it carries it's entire population within it where as the death star is only a tiny fraction of the imperial army.

I'd say the ID4 ships have it when bombarding cities but not so sure about the small fighters against the tie fighters.

I'd say star wars takes it by sheer numbers with or without the death star.

I was thinking exactly that, the sheer number of TIE's would be overwhelming. There were alot of alien fighters as well, but I am pretty sure the Empire has far more.

Another question. Shields. Star Destroyers have shields, TIE's do not. We must consider that. Also, would a Star Destroyer be able to penetrate the shields of the ID4 attack crafts? Or the Death star?

The ID4 aliens can be taken out by 20th century viruses. 😐

This is not even close.

However, the alien fighters are better than the Tie Fighters.

The mid sized alien ships are more powerful than the Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyers. They have shields that not even the largest hydrogen bombs can do a thing to. On top of that, they have that city destroying cannon that is far more powerful than anything the empire has other than the death star.

All the aliens have to do is keep the mother ship out of the firing range of the Death Star and the mid sized ships could probably take out the entire imperial army, death star and all, and lose only a few mid sized ships.

That is...until someone uploads a virus into their systems. 😐

RJ, clarify. Can the Empire use a virus like the earthlings did in the movie? If not, then the aliens whin all three scenarios. If yes, then they may not even win the first. The Empire is HUGE.

OK, the Empire is free to use any and all means to win. No holds barred, dude.

BTW, a Star Destroyer is far more powerful than the mid size alien ships, they are STAR destroyers.

Then the question would be: Have the empire ever used a Virus to try and disable the shields of a opponent and would they even consider doing it... Not even if we take into account the Expanded Universe can I come up with a single incident where they did this...

Actually the question would be does the Empire have the capability of figuring it out, as Jeff Goldblum did?

Also, the ID4 fleet would have to deal with the Empire's shields.

What good is figuring it out if they cannot use it? I mean have the empire ever planted a Virus on another ship to lower the shields?

But only on the Star Destroyers, the tie fighters are no more difficult to kill then the F-16, they only require one shoot.

All I am saying is that if a lowly cable TV guy here on Earth can figure out how to lower their shields, surely the Empire has a mind or two that will figure it out also.

And we are forgetting that the Empire has shields too. How will the ID4 fleet destroy the second Death Star, or even a star destroyer? We also dont even know if the ID4 landing craft's shields can survive one or even multiple death star blasts. We see the ID4 ships deflecting weapons from OUR universe, NOT plasma blasts and planet destroying blasts.

That lowly Cable TV Guy was a former student at MIT and had extensive knowlegde about the way their technology worked in combination with oure own thanks to him working at that cable station, none on the entire earth except him had figured out that the Aliens was using the satellits to broadcast their orders etc, But again I frankly doesn't see how knowing how to disable the shields will help the empire because they still have to get someone inside the main alien Mothership to upload the Virus (provided they can even make a virus without having one of the Aliens Airpods), and they can only get inside with another Alien ship and since this entire battle takes place in well space, It wouldn't exactly be easy to get hold of one.

We isn't forgetting that the Empire Star Destroyers have shields, we are just recalling that the Tie Fighters doesn't have shields which would basically make them well cannon fodder at the front line. Well I would imagine that simply prolonged bombardment from the Small Alien Aircrafts would sooner ore later bring down the Star Destroyer, especially if they go for the Brigde. You are correct we doesn't know if it can survive a Death Star blast (it's doubtfull) but I'm simply debating the first scenario the two last scenarios are (because the death star like you say will most likely just blast the Alien Mothership to dust at the opening effectively shutting down the rest of the ships) pretty straight forward imo.

Having that alien fighter just happened to be the way the earthlings destroyed the shields, that's all, I am sure there is more than one way. Doesn't the mother ship have to lower it's shields to release fighters/landing craft? You cant say "Well the Empire doesnt have an alien craft to dock with the mother ship, they are screwed", thats incredibly narrow minded.

How exactly? The city destoying blast ones, toke a freaking nuke without being damaged, granted we doesn't know if it could have taken another, but as far as I know Star Destroyers doesn't exactly carry around nukes, and the Fighters would generally be hard to hit for the Turbolasers.

I'm not even sure if the Mothership have a shield, and if I recall the City ships didn't have to lower their shields in order to deploy the Alien Vessels.

And Yes RJ, I can claim that if they cannot dock they are screwed but only if you are going to place the entire fights outcome on whether ore not the Empire can upload a Virus to the Mothership. Then I'm really free to say that without a Alien Ship they isn't going to get inside the mothership, getting hooked up and getting the chance of transfering the Virus. Unless you think they are just going to pilot a Tie Fighter in there?

Originally posted by Utrigita
How exactly? The city destoying blast ones, toke a freaking nuke without being damaged, granted we doesn't know if it could have taken another, but as far as I know Star Destroyers doesn't exactly carry around nukes, and the Fighters would generally be hard to hit for the Turbolasers.

And we see the ID4's alien fighters shields deflecting sidewinder missiles, NOT multiple laser blasts.

I'm not even sure if the Mothership have a shield, and if I recall the City ships didn't have to lower their shields in order to deploy the Alien Vessels.

During these few seconds, TIE's will be able to swarm inside the mother ship and wreak havoc. TIE's, unlike f18's, can encircle the mother ship and wait for their chance to enter. And yes, with the technology aboard the star destroyers, they will be able to tell when the mother ship lowers it's shieldsand order the TIE's to attack. Hell, even a Death Star blast as the shields lower would do the job.

And Yes RJ, I can claim that if they cannot dock they are screwed but only if you are going to place the entire fights outcome on whether ore not the Empire can upload a Virus to the Mothership.

Then I'm really free to say that without a Alien Ship they isn't going to get inside the mothership, getting hooked up and getting the chance of transfering the Virus. Unless you think they are just going to pilot a Tie Fighter in there?

Another SW masturbation Vs. thread. Joy.

Nah, just reality.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You telling me that star destroyers do not carry weaponry as strong as/stronger than a nuke?

Based on the Movie does they?

[QUOTE=11669304]Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
[B]And we see the ID4's alien fighters shields deflecting sidewinder missiles, NOT multiple laser blasts.

Correct but since all the power to the Shield apparently originate from the Mothership (which we know it does) then they will have to overload the Shields not just penetrate them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then how did the fighters/landing craft get from point A (docked with the mother ship) to point B (away from the mother ship)? The shields have to have been lowered, man, even if only for a few seconds.

As I previously said, I'm not sure that the Mothership even has shield atleast not in the traditionel sense. And yes that is how we normally would interpret the shields, that they have to be lowered in order for a Plane to be launched, however based on that the Shields apparently became active the moment the missiles got within 100 meters I think, there is from my point of view their are numerous possibilities on how they work, one would be that they are constantly active in some sort of inactive state until detecting a threat in it's immidiate perimeter, another would be that they are constantly on but the small shield on the Pods registre them as friends and opens the shield in that space for a short amount of time. etc etc

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
During these few seconds, TIE's will be able to swarm inside the mother ship and wreak havoc. TIE's, unlike f18's, can encircle the mother ship and wait for their chance to enter. And yes, with the technology aboard the star destroyers, they will be able to tell when the mother ship lowers it's shieldsand order the TIE's to attack. Hell, even a Death Star blast as the shields lower would do the job.

Yeah I'm sure the Tie Fighters will be perfectly capable of swarming into a opening if it hadn't been for the Alien fighters poaring out of there. Yes it's a possibility but not really likely they will swarm into the Mothership since it will probably be from the city leveling ships that the Fighters will be deployed. Unless you are planning on having the empire well launched equipped etc while the aliens have barely entered the system that is how you make it sound, I have already stated that I'm not interested in debating the two other scenarios since they are pretty loopsided imo.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If the Empire is earthbound and fighting with F18's, you are correct. But they aren't, are they?

Then please tell me what exactly make you believe that they are capable of getting a Virus into the Aliens database system, because I don't at all see the point you are trying to make.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Again, as the mothership releases it's fighters/landing craft, the shields are lowered!!! Why is this so hard to understand?

This is the second time you even bring up that it lowers the shields a point I have barely addressed so.... and well it's something that you zero proof of that it does, If I recall correctly the shield on the Fighter in Area 51 wasn't shown before the Colonel fired a shot at it, for all we know that could be how it react to outside energy, but to say that it has to lower the shield simply because that is the way they do in star wars isn't good proof imho.

FFS why haven't people uploaded something from this movie on Youtube?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Correct but since all the power to the Shield apparently originate from the Mothership (which we know it does) then they will have to overload the Shields not just penetrate them.

As I previously said, I'm not sure that the Mothership even has shield atleast not in the traditionel sense. And yes that is how we normally would interpret the shields, that they have to be lowered in order for a Plane to be launched, however based on that the Shields apparently became active the moment the missiles got within 100 meters I think, there is from my point of view their are numerous possibilities on how they work, one would be that they are constantly active in some sort of inactive state until detecting a threat in it's immidiate perimeter, another would be that they are constantly on but the small shield on the Pods registre them as friends and opens the shield in that space for a short amount of time. etc etc

Yeah I'm sure the Tie Fighters will be perfectly capable of swarming into a opening if it hadn't been for the Alien fighters poaring out of there. Yes it's a possibility but not really likely they will swarm into the Mothership since it will probably be from the city leveling ships that the Fighters will be deployed. Unless you are planning on having the empire well launched equipped etc while the aliens have barely entered the system that is how you make it sound, I have already stated that I'm not interested in debating the two other scenarios since they are pretty loopsided imo.

Then please tell me what exactly make you believe that they are capable of getting a Virus into the Aliens database system, because I don't at all see the point you are trying to make.

This is the second time you even bring up that it lowers the shields a point I have barely addressed so.... and well it's something that you zero proof of that it does, If I recall correctly the shield on the Fighter in Area 51 wasn't shown before the Colonel fired a shot at it, for all we know that could be how it react to outside energy, but to say that it has to lower the shield simply because that is the way they do in star wars isn't good proof imho.

I am fairly certain that in the movie, when David is explaining how to give the mother ship a "cold", it is implied that the shields must be lowered first. Also as he and Hiller approach. When I get home tomorrow, I'll check and see.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And in your opinion, coinciding blasts from both Death star's, as well as several if not hundreds of Star destroyers, will not be enough to do this?

Again I'm not debating death star. Personally I think the Star Destroyers will be more focused on trying to keep alive, they doesn't know that the Beam fired by the City Ships has to be targeted in the middle in order for them to blow up and with those comming down low opening up on the way, they will be a distraction from the Mothership, well along with the many thousands of small ships flying around constantly hammering it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So from what I gather in the last part of this, the shields would recognize their own craft and open the shields for a short time, allowing them to exit/enter the mother ship?

Yeah but only in that particular space, but that is however just my analyses on the case, I'm not a expert but having watched the scene again I would say that it's probably the way they do it, ore perhaps getting out is simply easier then getting in, again I have no idea.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the Empire has so many TIE's it is sickening. When struck by a missile, the ID4 fighters, while staying shielded, were also thrown off course, remember? Several TIE's firing rapid fire laser blasts would clear the way for at least a few TIE's to enter the mother ship and destroy it from within.

Let's get one thing completely straight here RJ, and that is that the Fighters from the Alien side got Shield the Tie Fighters doesn't, so even if we assume that the Aliens just open their hangar door for them and welcome them inside (with Fighters poaring out) the amount of fire the tie fighters would need to lay down would be staggering not forgetting the fact that the Aliens actually fire back. And what exactly lead you to believe that a few tie Fighters can take out the entire Mothership?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The point I am making is that with the technology the Empire possesses, they will certainly have more options than the virus.

Based on the Movies? I disagree, the Empire have in the movies never to my knowlegde nore in the EU used any kind of what I would call electronic warfare against a opponent.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Remember when the shields went down, THEN the fighters emerged?

I do yes, however I recall the first time where it seemed like the Fighters emerged regardless of the shield, unless you think that they would willing keep themselves open for attack for based on what I can see in the movie more then 10 seconds with enemies around? and the fighters would probably have emerged regardless.

anyway the movie http://en.cinemawiki.tv/movie/movie_Independence+Day.html the initial dogfight is around 54-55.

Scenario I: Darth Vader pwns.
Scenario II: Empire curbstomps.
Scenario III: Empire curbstomps.