Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, I was talking about concentrated fire from several star destroyers at once, sorry if I wasnt clear on that. That, in addition to a blast or two from the death stars, surely the shields will at the very least weaken.
The Death Star destroys (ie obliterates) planets with one hit, it stands to reason it could destroy the alien's mothership in one hit.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Also, the ID4 alien fighters would never catch the TIE's. We see the ID4 alien fighters chasing down F18's, which have a top speed of Mach 1.8 (1188 mph.) TIE's fly MUCH faster than this. Proof? Lookit this scene from ROTJ:At 7:22, look how fast Wedge's X Wing is going. And the TIE's go at least that fast.
Also, at 2:07, dude, look at how many star destroyers are coming out of hyperspace. And at 2:09, look at the TIE's, dude, I cant even count how many.
Actually, you're incorrect on which fighters are faster.
Remember that they flew an old, beat up, human technology repaired, alien fighter, to the mother ship. That means it had to reach an escape velocity to escape the Earth's gravitational pull. (I did some of these very same physics problems in college...lol)
The Alien Ships escape velocity had to be at least 11.2 Km/s. (Don't quote me on that number because that is from memory. I could be off...it might be 11.3...but I'm almost positive it is 11.2...I just don't feel like looking that up.) Meaning, even the little fighters could go very fast...at the very least, try 40320 KPH.
Also, fighting speed of the Tie Fighters (dog fights) appears to be very very slow. However, in the Tie's favor, they are MUCH more maneuverable. Even in video games, the maneuverability is much better in the ties than other ships like the X-Wing. (Which is why I like the Tie fighters...weak as heck...but very maneuverable.)
Edit- In fact, didn't they say it would take 3 hours to reach the mother ship in the film. I should go back and watch...that will tell us what top cruising speed the fighter can travel, because we know the distance to the moon...the diamter of the moon, and we'll throw in an extra 50,000 KM for good measure as a distance between the mother ship and the moon.
Doube edit- It wouldn't be the diamter of the moon. It would be pi * diameter of the "travel around the moon from the center of the moon.." that would be the diamter...to find the actuall physica distance travled.
Originally posted by dadudemonI was referring to the maneuverability, as you stated, not flat out greasy ass nasty speed. Speed and turning capabilities during a dogfight.
Actually, you're incorrect on which fighters are faster.Remember that they flew an old, beat up, human technology repaired, alien fighter, to the mother ship. That means it had to reach an escape velocity to escape the Earth's gravitational pull. (I did some of these very same physics problems in college...lol)
The Alien Ships escape velocity had to be at least 11.2 Km/s. (Don't quote me on that number because that is from memory. I could be off...it might be 11.3...but I'm almost positive it is 11.2...I just don't feel like looking that up.) Meaning, even the little fighters could go very fast...at the very least, try 40320 KPH.
Also, fighting speed of the Tie Fighters (dog fights) appears to be very very slow. However, in the Tie's favor, they are MUCH more maneuverable. Even in video games, the maneuverability is much better in the ties than other ships like the X-Wing. (Which is why I like the Tie fighters...weak as heck...but very maneuverable.)
Edit- In fact, didn't they say it would take 3 hours to reach the mother ship in the film. I should go back and watch...that will tell us what top cruising speed the fighter can travel, because we know the distance to the moon...the diamter of the moon, and we'll throw in an extra 50,000 KM for good measure as a distance between the mother ship and the moon.
Doube edit- It wouldn't be the diamter of the moon. It would be pi * diameter of the "travel around the moon from the center of the moon.." that would be the diamter...to find the actuall physica distance travled.
BUT....
I am watching ID4 right now, I dunno, I might have to rethink that.....
Shields? Advantage ID4 fighters.
Firepower? TIE fighters.
Sheer numbers? TIE fighters by FAR.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was referring to the maneuverability, as you stated, not flat out greasy ass nasty speed. Speed and turning capabilities during a dogfight.
Indeed. Tie Fighters seem to turn on a friggin dime and can fly at rediculously slow speeds, if so desired.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
BUT....I am watching ID4 right now, I dunno, I might have to rethink that.....
Shields? Advantage ID4 fighters.
Firepower? TIE fighters.
Sheer numbers? TIE fighters by FAR.
Indeed. Those little alien fighters are pretty dern fast and...very manuverable. It's hard for me to decide. I will go with Tie fighters until someone can make a video case for the alien buggers.
Shields...dude...by far...I agree. Tie Fighters are weak. I'm not sure why the basically incinerate when a bolt hits it.
I will have to disagree and say the firepower on the Alien ships is better. They explode on impact much bigger than cannon fire from the ties. However, the Tie Bomber has big ol' bombs. I'm not sure if that is movie cannon, though.
Sheer numbers go to the Empire...by FAAAAAAAR! lol
I say the TIE's have superior firepower because they have rapid fire, penetrating lasers. Sure, they dont make a big ass BOOM when they impact, but the damage and the repetitive fire would work to their advantage.
Another thing we have to consider is that IF the ID4 aliens defeat the Imperial Navy, they will have to send in their ground troops to mop up. So......How will they fare against stormtroopers? Or Vader?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I say the TIE's have superior firepower because they have rapid fire, penetrating lasers. Sure, they dont make a big ass BOOM when they impact, but the damage and the repetitive fire would work to their advantage.
But...what good does that rapid fire do when the alien ships have those uber shields?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Another thing we have to consider is that IF the ID4 aliens defeat the Imperial Navy, they will have to send in their ground troops to mop up. So......How will they fare against stormtroopers? Or Vader?
I would say that they would mop the floor with the stormtroopers.
Their biomechincal suits were supposedly supposed to be uber. It had the doc pitching a tent over them..so they must have been pretty advanced.
Also, don't forget about the telepathy capabilities of the aliens. Much much superior to anything seen in the force. One damaged beat up, crash landed alien, who jus underwent crude "surgery" from the humans, took down an entire room of humans with its weird alien "brain scream" thingie.
Who knows what the range on that brain thing is. It worked through glass...so the "psionic" powers work fairly well. It targeted just one human, or could be broadened to everyone in the room.
It took out a room, no, masacred a room of scientists, on its own.
(But will smith punched one in the face and it was lights out.) lol
Originally posted by dadudemonDude, the Empire will find a way around the shields. Can you imagine the minds that created the Death star? They will make David Levinson look like a retard.
But...what good does that rapid fire do when the alien ships have those uber shields?I would say that they would mop the floor with the stormtroopers.
Their biomechincal suits were supposedly supposed to be uber. It had the doc pitching a tent over them..so they must have been pretty advanced.
Also, don't forget about the telepathy capabilities of the aliens. Much much superior to anything seen in the force. One damaged beat up, crash landed alien, who jus underwent crude "surgery" from the humans, took down an entire room of humans with its weird alien "brain scream" thingie.
Who knows what the range on that brain thing is. It worked through glass...so the "psionic" powers work fairly well. It targeted just one human, or could be broadened to everyone in the room.
It took out a room, no, masacred a room of scientists, on its own.
(But will smith punched one in the face and it was lights out.) lol
And I am sure a blast from a Blastech E11 assault rifle will shred those biomechanical suits.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, the Empire will find a way around the shields. Can you imagine the minds that created the Death star? They will make David Levinson look like a retard.And I am sure a blast from a Blastech E11 assault rifle will shred those biomechanical suits.
Oh, no doubt.
I'm of the opinion that those shields will be disabled in no time flat, by the empire minds. Some of the brightest minds in the star wars universe work for the empire, making new technologies for them.
I still think it is a land slide victory for the Empire.
We don't know how long or how much punishment those alien shields can take. We DO know that one of the smartest technology humans on all of planet earth figured out a way to hack and upload a virus on their ship...surely the empire, who has the pickin's from literally trillions of "people" could find someone as capable if not MORE capable than David. 😐
I still have no doubt that it is a landslide victory for the empire.
If it was one death star and many star destroyers with many tie fighters, in equal numbers to the mother ship, mid sized city destroyers, and alien fighters, I'd give it t the aliens..but the sheer numbers are absurdly in favor of the Empire....even if they don't destroy the shielding on the ships. There's no way those shields have infinite protection power. They have to give eventually. A bombardment from 4-5 star destroyers from all angles should be more than enough...even though it would take many many shots to equal a hydrogen bomb...
But each star destroyer has thousands of laser cannons, so it shouldn't take like...more than an hour to equal the power of a hydrogen bomb...maybe even a few minutes?
I'm speculating that there is a giving point.
Originally posted by Robtard
Did you factor in the sheer idiocy of the Empire, though? I.E. build a massive doomsday weapon, yet leave it susceptible to being destroyed by a single shot.
Yeah that was covered under Scenario D, so long as Will Smith is delivering the final shot. 😛
The idiocy factor was a very relevant thing to factor in, now you mention it.. I bet that commander who declined to shoot at the escape pod in ep IV was kicking himself for sure....
I bet all his imperial collegues mock him at the office parties about that still to this day.....
But those ID4 guys werent all genuises, Im sure.
I bet they had their equivalents of Simple Jack in their ranks.
Originally posted by Sadako of GirthBut those ID4 guys werent all genuises, Im sure.
I bet they had their equivalents of Simple Jack in their ranks.
Very true; I'm willing to bet it was their IT guy, the one who didn't bother putting in a simple virus protection program into their system.
Can build planatoid-sized space vessel: check
Has highly advanced bio suits: check
Ship shielding that can withstand nuclear assault: check
Smaller carrier/attack ships can level a city in a few hours: check
Computer equipment that can counter epically inferior technology:fail
That movie sucked balls, two worse scenes. 1) Will Smith punching out an alien in a bio suit that protected him/her/it from a crash landing 2) Randy Quaid flying into the beam gleeming like a pansy and saying "I'm back."
Originally posted by Robtard
Very true; I'm willing to bet it was their IT guy, the one who didn't bother putting in a simple virus protection program into their system.Can build planatoid-sized space vessel: check
Has highly advanced bio suits: check
Ship shielding that can withstand nuclear assault: check
Smaller carrier/attack ships can level a city in a few hours: check
Computer equipment that can counter epically inferior technology:failThat movie sucked balls, two worse scenes. 1) Will Smith punching out an alien in a bio suit that protected him/her/it from a crash landing 2) Randy Quaid flying into the beam gleeming like a pansy and saying "I'm back."
LOLZ Oh man I know what you mean...
I loved the movie right til just after all the mass destruction.
It was looking like the most epic movie in the known universe right up until that point you mention with the Smith banging out the alien.
For then of it degenerated into a brain dead, flag waving cheesefest where all story arcs take a simultaneous and sad "Challenger-post-main-tank-explosion"-like trajectory towards where the fishes slept blissfully unaware of the tonnes of flaming plot, twisted shallow hack writing and smoking wreckage of character development hurtling toward them from miles above..
Did you see the alt. ending to that movie....? Quaid takes out the saucer with the crop duster. 😕
Originally posted by Robtard
I did not and I don't want to know how a crop-duster destroys a highly advanced alien wr ship.
Too bad.
The firing cannon has tons concentrated tons of polarized energy at the collection center on the tip. This helps plasmic energy to discharge through the firing mechanism. This polarized energy is to help direct the plasmic energy in a straight line. However, it is volatile. Destruction of that tip at almost any point will cause a reverse cascade of explosions, through the plasmic discharge network. Since the ships are shielded almost perfectly, it never crossed their mind that there would be a design flaw in that cannon.
And, unlike other shielding technologies, the fighter crafts and the mid sized ships' shields do not "harmonize" meaning that can't phase through each other. And, yes, the alien fighter craft exits are far away from the cannon. They know not to fly anywhere near the cannon when exiting. And when entering, a special automated system phases a specific portion of the shields on the mid sized ship to let them back in. But it is so automated and fast that there's no way anything could get through the hole created in the shields when they go back. If something were to ram the fighter right as it were entering, the hole that is created in the mid sized ship's shield seals around the fighter as it exits, immediately meaning no gap is ever experienced between the fighter's shield and the big ship.
😐
Someone may think "oh, just attached something to the alien ship as it tries to enter so you could have an infiltration. Doesn't work. The shields authenticate with each other through a quantum encryption.
To put it simply, the shields are impenetrable. Nothing gets past them. The only way to get through them is disabling them.