Re: Re: Mace Windu vs Kas'im
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I say Mace in all three. Vapaad is completely unknown to Kas'im. Plus that, Mace is faster and most likely a lot stronger than Kas'im physically and in the force.
Not exactly. Kas'im was a master of all the Forms, including Juyo. Vaapad is a variation of Juyo created by Mace. It won't be completely alien to Kas'im as he'll recognise some Form 7 in it. He'll be thinking 'his style is like Juyo, but different somehow.'
Anyway, I believe it'll be a very tough battle, but Mace will prevail. Stronger Force power, shatterpoint ability and his own sword skills (at least on par with Kas'im's, or even better) will earn him the win.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
False. I'll grant that Mace will win on account of Shatterpoint/superior speed, but he is not better than Kas'im.
Indeed slightly offtopic, since I'm not all that knowledgeable with the Old Sith, is Tulak Hord a better weaponmaster than Kas'im, since I think theirs a quote where it says Kas'im is perhaps the best weaponmaster ever. Or something along those lines.
Oh and Nemesis thanks for the heads up in the PM.
Originally posted by mattatom
Indeed slightly offtopic, since I'm not all that knowledgeable with the Old Sith, is Tulak Hord a better weaponmaster than Kas'im, since I think theirs a quote where it says Kas'im is perhaps the best weaponmaster ever. Or something along those lines.
Within the first few passes Bane knew he couldn't win. Kas'im had trained his entire life for this moment. After years of study, he'd mastered all seven forms of the lightsaber. Then he'd honed his skill for decades, perfecting every move and sequence until he had become the perfect weapon and the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy. Maybe the greatest swordsman ever. Bane was no match for him.
Originally posted by mattatom
Oh and Nemesis thanks for the heads up in the PM.
You're kidding, right? Red, you disappoint me, especially in light of your superior command of the English language. The fact that the omniscient narrator makes use of the qualifier "maybe" -- that Kas'im is perhaps the greatest swordsman ever -- would indicate to just about anyone with an IQ in single digits that there are clearly other contenders to that title. And even if there weren't the idea "best" does not mean "peerless."
[list=1]
[*]Are you cereal? Kas'im memorized every possible combination between the different Forms of lightsaber combat. He completely mastered all of the different techniques, apparently in both the saber staff and dual-saber variants. To say that his skill, if not overall combat efficiency is anything less than exceptional within the saga is some sort of oversight.
[*]I found a reply on this topic from a long time ago. I seem to have not been infected with retard at that point (Faunus still had it so I was safe) and I may or may not have posted it. It still makes sense though so I'll post it again.[/list]
Me:
Kas'im vs. Mace Windu.
There is no doubt that these are some of the best lightsaber duelists in the saga. Mace Windu created his own form- ostensibly more deadly than the classical forms and tailor made to his temperament. Kas'im mastered all seven extant forms of lightsaber combat, and memorized every possible combination of those styles to become not only the Brotherhood's lightsaber instructor, but the deadliest duelist of his era.
Kas'im
Force
Kas'im has an abundance of skill, but his force powers are considered weak. This isn't really fair, as the only role we saw him in was one of a saber instructor. He was able to fully defend himself from a TK attack powerful enough to "shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid." (PoD) This same blast was powerful enough to vaporize the temple around him: "The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed in a shower of stone". (PoD) Kas'im's defense against this came after he had been all but defeated by Bane in the first half of their duel- He was far from fresh.
There is more to combat, however, than skill. There is power. So far, none of Kas’im’s feats put him on par with Windu- Kas’im has virtually no force feats to speak of. However, as many like to point out: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. In this case we don’t even have absence of proof. Kas’im was capable of blocking an enraged and desperate Darth Bane’s force wave completely. The concussive force of the portion of the blast that hit him was enough to ‘shatter every bone in his body’, yet his shield was sufficient to protect himself fully. None of Mace Windu’s feats are more powerful than this blast- even his Crush of Grievous’s armor doesn’t compare- the sheer destruction of Darth Bane is beyond Windu’s capabilities. Kas’im would be able to defend himself from any Force attack Mace throws at him.
Kas'im himself states '"As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force.' in PoD during his training sessions with Bane. This appears to have been the focus of his combat mentality: an emphasis on technique can outweigh a disparity in Force strength.
Also, as a token showing of his basic competence in TK, note that he is able to ‘blast a wall open’ while facing a ‘in the zone’ PoD Bane. This was during the portion of the duel in which he was on the defense, and the ability to muster a concussive force sufficient to demolish a wall.
Recognizing what was happening, Kas'im blew open the heavy door of a side room with the Force and dived inside.
Saber
[/old me]
The qualifier in the quote under contention, 'perhaps' seems to me to be a mere rhetorical flourish. While Drew's writing leaves much to be desired, he is certainly adept at spinning a hyperbolic assertion into an eloquent phrase. The word 'perhaps' adds intensity to the confrontation with Bane- will the apprentice surpass the master? (cue power rangers teaser...)
To say that the accolade is irrelevant because of the artistic license is silly. Taken at face value, even if we deny that he is the best ever, to be in contention is absolutely stunning.
LS, he is the greatest in the galaxy now. 'Maybe the greatest ever' does not imply a time period- there does not seem to be anything that prevents this from being a prediction as well. It doesn't have anything like 'maybe the greatest yet.
Dictionary.com
'Ever'
–adverb
1.at all times; always: an ever-present danger; He is ever ready to find fault.
2.continuously: ever since then.
3.at any time: Have you ever seen anything like it?
4.in any possible case; by any chance; at all (often used to intensify or emphasize a phrase or an emotional reaction as surprise or impatience): How did you ever manage to do it? If the band ever plays again, we will dance.