Originally posted by Elite Hunter
From what I've seen they spent a lot of time trying to tell you that this thread is spite (which it is) and you made up a crappy scenario.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What those ^ two said. You made a thread where one side doesn't have a chance. Spite.
Really? Let's see some of your/Nai's/etc.'s posts:
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ahem.The Empire targets the nuclear powers first, splitting their forces around the globe, simultaneously attacking and deterring the nuclear powers from burning the entire planet.
Assuming of course the Empire aren't a pack of retards, they'll bring some AA with them, neutralizing our air forces along with jamming our satellite/radar capabilities.
No known conventional armament can withstand laser-based weaponry of Imperial caliber, rendering our superior number factor rather useless.
And since the Vs. forums take in to consideration the EU, stormtroopers aren't the bumbling morons of the movies, but are instead rigorously trained elite shock troops (despite Ush's zeal), our "superior training" will fall by the wayside. Especially in the wake of lasers. Take that Kevlar.
Also considering that the some 200 nations of this planet do not cooperate as well as we'd all like, chances are someone *cough*France*cough*Canada* is gonna sell someone out. Also considering that only the U.S., China, North Korea, and Russia have the military capabilities to dent Imperial numbers (ala prolonged air attacks, naval defences etc.) the rest of the world doesn't really count.
In the end, we may be able to hold out long enough to dwindle and divide the Imperials to the point that a war of attrition may arise in which case we WILL lose considering the immense likelihood of defection. The nuclear option leaves everyone dead ONLY if the Imperials do not possess or do not acquire a means to stop/protect themselves from it.
I didn't even factor in Vader.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If you had the keys to the U.S. stockpile, would you nuke Russia, knowing they'll nuke you in turn--Imperials or no? Assuming Vader and his commanders aren't retards, they'll neutralize our nuclear deterrent by attacking the nuclear nations directly, resulting in one Nuke power being too scared to either nuke themselves or provoke another. And seeing as how all the nuclear powers are the military threats, the Empire won't waste time attacking Ethiopia.500,000 laser wielding stormtroopers, 100 AT-ATs and 1000 AT-ST is a LOT to face even if your tech and knowledge is FROM Star Wars. 5 AT-AT and a few STs broke through rebel tenacity, laser canons, snowspeeders, and Luke Skywalker's sabotage. Everything the rebels had>what we have. Oh and then there's Vader.
Stormtrooper armor is vulnerable at the joints and is pierced (as far as I've seen) by blaster bolts only. Bullets are gonna have a harder time than blaster bolts. Range isn't gonna be much of a factor here unless we have hundreds of thousands of soldiers duking it out ala Geonosis in the deserts... which there are none in the major populated/strategic areas in the nuclear nations.
"Most." Your word. Not gonna mean much when tanks are vaporized by the Imp armor, buildings are blown out easier than the shield generator on Hoth, and Vader's TKing anyone that dares enter his view. Big enough show of strength and all the Frances and Italys of the world will bow down--namely all of South America, Africa, Indonesia, Australia, Canada, Eastern Europe. And if the nuclear powers enforce these regions' loyalty to Earth then... hey go ahead and split your forces and cause internal strife.
Again, the Vs. forum takes the Eu in to account, and in the EU, the stromies are elites. PIS aside, movie logic can have the protagonists as even more skilled than them. This was always a problem with the stormtroopers, there's too many discrepancies between the movies and EU.
Oh and just in case we REALLY get in to semantics, I'll point out now that we'd be facing 100 legions of fictional characters and Darth freaking Vader. Without firing shot, I'll kneel before Zod.
Originally posted by Captain REX
What makes you think that the hulls of AT-AT armor would even be penetrated by our weapons? Those things alone would tear us new holes.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Iran does not have the conventional firepower to take on the likes of China, India or the United States. Nor do they have lasers, AT-ATs or Darth Vader.A legion of stormtroopers (best troops my ass) were ambushed by a pack of indigenous natives the Emperor had overlooked. In a forest. Supported by a rebel strike team and a Wookiee. Stand before a military council and advise them that their soldiers should dress up like bears and hide in Central Park. Then we can watch them get vaporized by the AT-ATs.
All kinda leaves you wondering how stumbling buffoons in plastic armor are the elite shock troops of a galaxy-spanning empire.
Oh, and as for the snowspeeder thing: no jet plane in existence can travel slow enough to turn as quickly as the speeders, towing a cable behind them, while dodging turbolaser blasts, Vader's TK, and the side of the terrain.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Irrelevant.[/b]
As they conquer whatever continent they are on they will produce transports.
[/b]
Fuel is irrelevant (cold fusion FTW) and ammo (since you are using only movie material) is also irrelevant: ammo is never changed or depleted in the movies (That I can remember) so it isn't a problem here.
[/b]
The tanks can shoot upwards and Vader's Force strength is enormous. I wouldn't bet against him. Anyway, do you have proof or math(s) that suggest a nuke could take out a Walker?[/b]
Or they just kill everyone. Base Delta Zero shows that they wouldn't have a moral qualm and they could take out a city pretty easily.[/b]
What? This is just silly...You're silly. The Empire has the technological advantage as well as the disciplinary one. They have no civilians to protect and no long-term consequences for their actions. As such, they are free to commit atrocities as needed while the rest of the world must be careful not to step on each others' toes. Empire takes this. [/B]
Originally posted by Captain REXSo, then they'd have only, let's say 450,000 stormtroopers (the stormtroopers/clones seem to die fast and in huge amounts) and most of their AT STs (the "I got hit by a catapult oh my!"😉 and a good deal of their AA guns.[/quote]
Not to burst your bubble, but our heroes from ANH are not without experience. Han Solo trained in the Imperial academies and is an avid gunslinger. Leia also has combat training for self-protection and fighting the war against the Empire. Luke at least has some knowledge of blasters as he has a rifle on Tatooine that he intends to use against the Tuskens if they attack him.The AT-ATs are shown to have great range as it is, and being huge they move ponderously but cover distances about as fast as footsoldiers would, I should think. I could see artillery being a problem, but not for the AT-ATs...
Have we seen bullets used against stormtrooper armor? Ever? Crappy marskmen or not, the stormtroopers' blasters would make short work of opponents. Especially witht he support from Vader and the walkers.
You're really banking on that catapult thing. It's annoying. Catapults launch incredibly heavy projectiles that would be able to knock the thing over, yes, but we don't use heavy projectiles, we use explosives. There is not even a guarantee that our weapons do much to them.
Also, why discrediting the stormtroopers as dying fast? How many people died in World War II? In Vietnam? In modern wars? America has lost over 3000 troops to the war in Iraq, but the Iraqis have lost 35,000. I don't think the stormtroopers would die as quickly as you think they would.
You're also using the logic that Earth would throw everything they've got immediately. I don't think that'd happen. If the Empire is moving from country to country, they would knock them down one by one, like pins. The idea that they don't have any transports to get across the waters to other nations is just ridiculous and intentionally inflicted upon them by you so that they can't even fight the war they're being put into. They will figure it out; there are variants of AT-ATs that are aquatic, I'm sure they could modify their walkers.
Have you ever blown open a solid metal door with a pistol? Has anyone? Lasers punch holes in stormtrooper armor. You don't need to spray-and-pray as we do with burstfire weapons here on Earth. One hit will do if it is not a glancing shot.
Also, I'm going to say that the firepower of lasers coming from AT-ATs will dominate whatever we throw at them, unless we decide to just destroy the Earth with nukes. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by mattatom
Also the smart people who know the Empire will win.Mhm seeing the world in terms of what works best? Yeh I reckon the Empire would be the side to side with in this battle.
Originally posted by Borbarad
I'd love to see a Ranger, Green Beret, Delta Force or Navy SEAL jumping to semi-automatic blaster fire from a stormtrooper and try to close into hand to hand combat. I really can't see that happening.Okay. Somebody here has no idea about SW technology. The lasers mounted to the SW universe starfighters unleash firepower equivalent to that of a small nuclear bomb - with each shot. Yet, as we clearly see, that doesn't even remotely touch an AT-AT. So...unless you directly hit it with a nuclear bomb, I don't see anybody doing much against that things.
See above. The AT-ATs are constructed out of space-age material that has been shown to survive physical stress equivalent of several million G, heat equivalent to that of a sun and so on. There is nothing on earth that would be able to damage those things. It's really that easy.
They have been shown to walk up 90° walls with motifications so I really don't see the Rocky Mountains or the Sierra Nevada being impossible to cross for them.
@Blax:
Yeah. Right. You have to hit that thing multiple times on a top spot from the side with enough force to destabilize it. I'd love to see somebody attempting to hit that precisely with heavy atillery - especially against a moving target that is going to obliterate any enemy force with a single shot. And I really don't think that this plan would work at all.
etc etc...
Originally posted by mattatom
Also the smart people who know the Empire will win.
Mhm seeing the world in terms of what works best? Yeh I reckon the Empire would be the side to side with in this battle.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
etc etc...
To Mike's giant post:
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Really? Let's see some of your/Nai's/etc.'s posts:etc etc...
You pretty much just proved my point. Remember in another thread that you've been conveniently avoiding, where I mentioned that I (and Nai, etc.) "picked a side and argued for it, because that's the point of [this place]"? Do you remember?
Until you altered this thread, I felt the Empire may be able to win, so I argued for it. Then after you made the alterations, I could no longer argue that reasonably. You created a thread that was one-sided, so we tried to fight for the disadvantaged, then you made it even MORE one-sided, simply to counter the rest of us, all of whom you have deemed "big meanies" who you feel the need to upstage and outsmart (you're failing miserably by the way).
You made a spite thread, but instead of acknowledging that and making recompense, you got offended. You should take a leaf out of that Higlio guy's book. Or that Jinkosu fellow. Their ignorance or mistake was made clear to them, they recognized it, and they moved on in a civil and polite manner. Instead of trying defending your integrity and intelligence, you've ruined it in our eyes.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
To Mike's giant post:You pretty much just proved my point. Remember in another thread that you've been conveniently avoiding, where I mentioned that I (and Nai, etc.) "picked a side and argued for it, because that's the point of [this place]"? Do you remember?
Until you altered this thread, I felt the Empire may be able to win, so I argued for it. Then after you made the alterations, I could no longer argue that reasonably. You created a thread that was one-sided, so we tried to fight for the disadvantaged, then you made it even MORE one-sided, simply to counter the rest of us, all of whom you have deemed "big meanies" who you feel the need to upstage and outsmart (you're failing miserably by the way).
You made a spite thread, but instead of acknowledging that and making recompense, you got offended. You should take a leaf out of that Higlio guy's book. Or that Jinkosu fellow. Their ignorance or mistake was made clear to them, they recognized it, and they moved on in a civil and polite manner. Instead of trying defending your integrity and intelligence, you've ruined it in our eyes.
Exactly how did I significantly alter it? And by alter I mean stuff added on AFTER the OP, because you argued for the Empire for quite a while after the OP, meaning that it was a post after the OP that made it a spite (according to you). And does it outweigh you giving the Empire AA guns? Please give me an example of an alteration that I did against the Empire (note that the "limited supplies" things isn't an alteration; it's common sense that an invading force wouldn't have unlimited supplies).
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallYour alterations included:
Exactly how did I significantly alter it? And by alter I mean stuff added on AFTER the OP, because you argued for the Empire for quite a while after the OP, meaning that it was a post after the OP that made it a spite (according to you). And does it outweigh you giving the Empire AA guns? Please give me an example of an alteration that I did against the Empire (note that the "limited supplies" things isn't an alteration; it's common sense that an invading force wouldn't have unlimited supplies).
1.) Earth knowing everything about the invaders and instantly recognizing the threat. 2.) Food to last between USA and South America--a few days worth. 3.) The Empire knowing next to jack about the people they've decided to conquer with such a poorly equipped force. 4.) Being dropped off in the middle of Mexico.
Seriously, with these in effect, the Empire's boned. With these alterations you made a match that was in favour of the Earth in to a match that guaranteed Earth's victory. Spite.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Your alterations included:1.) Earth knowing everything about the invaders and instantly recognizing the threat. 2.) Food to last between USA and South America--a few days worth. 3.) The Empire knowing next to jack about the people they've decided to conquer with such a poorly equipped force. 4.) Being dropped off in the middle of Mexico.
Seriously, with these in effect, the Empire's boned. With these alterations you made a match that was in favour of the Earth in to a match that guaranteed Earth's victory. Spite.
1 & 3. I CHANGED IT SO THAT THE EMPIRE DOES KNOW ABOUT THE EARTH AT YOUR REQUEST!!! How come whenever I try and be generous to you and agree with you you just ignore it???
2. That's actually quite a bit, or at least I intended it to be quite a bit.
4. So where do you want them to be dropped off at???
Seriously, these alterations aren't enough to make them a spite.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallYou'll need to quote me on those. It's been too long to remember.
1 & 3. I CHANGED IT SO THAT THE EMPIRE DOES KNOW ABOUT THE EARTH AT YOUR REQUEST!!! How come whenever I try and be generous to you and agree with you you just ignore it???2. That's actually quite a bit, or at least I intended it to be quite a bit.
4. So where do you want them to be dropped off at???
Seriously, these alterations aren't enough to make them a spite.
That's like a week's worth supplies, not much.
No where. What I want is an entirely different scenario. This one's so out of whack.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You'll need to quote me on those. It's been too long to remember.That's like a week's worth supplies, not much.
No where. What I want is an entirely different scenario. This one's so out of whack.
I forgot where I said that too, but I DID say it. A week's worth supplies true, but someone here (I think Nai) said that they won't need supplies because they could just capture stuff. And how does being dropped off in the middle of Mexico make it a spite against the Empire?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallWell imagine if you knew the threat the Empire posed, and you knew the most efficient way to remove such a threat to our civilization was to wipe them out in one go. Where better to nuke the space invaders than the middle of the Mexican character?
I forgot where I said that too, but I DID say it. A week's worth supplies true, but someone here (I think Nai) said that they won't need supplies because they could just capture stuff. And how does being dropped off in the middle of Mexico make it a spite against the Empire?
Now if Earth wasn't aware of the threat, being in Mexico wouldn't be as bad.