do they have air support? ATATS and ATSTs will demolish our own tanks and other armored vehicles.
Vader can block nukes, and maybe take over one country (powerful one like china, or us)
All vader has to do is choke kill someone on the tv...
like all the world leaders.
Earth can't counter the force.
His troops will move more precisely, and have a chance of taking over a nation (thats their only chance in fact).
if that doesn't work, they won't succeed.
damn this thread has 41 pages...
sry kotorfan, but already dismissed all of those ways in previous pages. Empire couldn't win . We have much more than tanks, and we only need a way to trip the AT and it's over. If we hit them with a mortar canon while they have one leg up they'll trip for sure.
Vader can use force push , but any rocket would explode instantly dmging him as well (a nuke will do the same) .
Kill someone on TV won't do any good, it's not like like we'd surrender just because of that. Anyway there won't be any TV crew near the fight .
Force isnt' so that great, Vader couldnt block a tank shell. If Yoda barely lifted that small ship, a tank shell with hit with a much greater force than the weight of that spaceship so he'd be dead. And a tank shell isn't one of our most powerful projectiles.
Also blocking bullets with lightsaber wont do any good cause he'd die anyway, i already proved that in previous pages and how could he block a rain of 50 cal bullets . It's not like he can make a shield, he has to use his hand to block each bullet(like he did in that flying city when Lando betrayed them) and at the speed and rate they'll hit him it's impossible. Also with the power they'll hit him, his hand would snap like a straw. Even if his armor will resist, any mobile part of his body like hands, feet, HEAD will break from the force or the bullets or shells or w/e he's hit with.
How precisly will his troops move, they're a handfull of soldiers, they'll be bombarded by dozens of mortars from tens of km away and they won't be able to do anything. I saw on Discovery a couple of days ago how they can blast a huge area in second with sincronised mortar shots.
Again even if their armor is strong enough, all their articulations will break from the force and they'll die. The small AT were destroyed by the Ewok's trap when they got hit by 2 tree trunks hitting the AT from both sides, so our tanks would obliterate the small AT's.
So, troops are down, Vader is down, small AT's are down all we need to do now is trip the remaining big AT's and its over...do that with some very powerful hits on one side, do that by tieing their legs with the help of a helicopter or remote control guided plane (the army has suc things) and a rope. Also the big AT's wont walk on anything else that plain ground so they're useless.
How would they travell through all the tough terrains Earth has.
The Empire has 0 chances.
Originally posted by radu1234Vader won't need a camera crew filming him, he needs access to a TV where a world leader might be on the tube addressing his or her nation. Obama makes one of is patented speeches and Vader, sitting in a recliner, chokes him.
Kill someone on TV won't do any good, it's not like like we'd surrender just because of that. Anyway there won't be any TV crew near the fight .
Originally posted by radu1234The beautiful thing about the Rise of the Empire era is that the multiple movies, books, and games have a tendency to contradict each other in the strangest of ways. We see a Yoda a year from death slowly lifting an X-Wing and a Palpatine going from casually chucking senate pods to letting himself get picked up and tossed aside. Vader goes from doing barely anything in the OT to being a TK god in the TFU---which is set a year earlier. Vader could probably catch one tank shell, but not multiple at once.
Force isnt' so that great, Vader couldnt block a tank shell. If Yoda barely lifted that small ship, a tank shell with hit with a much greater force than the weight of that spaceship so he'd be dead. And a tank shell isn't one of our most powerful projectiles.
Originally posted by radu1234The issue of lightsaber-to-bullet contact hasn't been resolved. Our physics make sense to us, but taking Star Wars physics (such as a pure energy beam slicing through a fictional alloy) into account makes it nigh-impossible to calculate an accurate result. But yeah, a barrage of 50 cal., whether they can penetrate his armor or not, will knock him on his ass.
Also blocking bullets with lightsaber wont do any good cause he'd die anyway, i already proved that in previous pages and how could he block a rain of 50 cal bullets . It's not like he can make a shield, he has to use his hand to block each bullet(like he did in that flying city when Lando betrayed them) and at the speed and rate they'll hit him it's impossible. Also with the power they'll hit him, his hand would snap like a straw. Even if his armor will resist, any mobile part of his body like hands, feet, HEAD will break from the force or the bullets or shells or w/e he's hit with.
The rest of it you're absolutely right though. Hell, a squad of bombers dropping napalm will do 'em in. But this is all assuming the nations' mutual cooperation and lack of shock (which would be enormous under any other circumstances).
alright. lol I haven't really been checking back on the previous pages that much and forgot about the arguments alittle. I knew that empire would lose, but since hewhoknowsall was asking, I decided to post something to try and save the empire. i mean 500,000 troops isn't enough for anything.. there are a few trillion people on earth. 500k wouldn't be able to take over a few trillion..lol
oh about the tying up of the ATATs, I saw on mythbusters, about that batman car turning thing with a rope, where he shoots out a rope of some kind to grab onto a wall to help turn at high speeds. It was proved to be impossible, as the rope kept breaking. There is just no such material strong enough to allow driving at high speeds and turn, let alone flying.
Our tanks couldn't possible take out ATATs though.. and as I said, tripping won't be an option cuz it is impossible as of now. Maybe we'll make some dimond rope or something, but there just isn't a material strong enough to allow such high speed turnings required in tripping ATATs.
well you could argue that they don't have to be flying at high speeds, but, if they aren't the tripping method won't be nearly as effective.
BUT the empire still loses.. lol
EDIT: maybe hewhoknowsall was asking in a different thread, but i know that he did ask for arguments.
edit again: nvm it was on page 40.
really? well w/e I'm not even in college yet. Ask Gideon or someone.. he looks older than me.
and we wouldn't have graduated from college with this amount of crap. It was half a flame war, and doesn't have any quality writing. well a bit, but not much.
40 pgs of Gideon's palpy essay would have everyone graduate in no time.
About Goku beating Superman... i didnt study the thread about it yet.
Everything about superman is contradictive. In one place has light speed in another he has just a bigger speed, but acceptable. In one place he's super resistant, in another he gets beaten up from a couple of fists.
The creator of Superman tried to make his Godlike, but then he realised that an invincible hero would, in the end, bore everybody because in every scenario he just wins in seconds and goes home. So to make him more attractive they gave him Godlike powers in some cases where he needed it and lamer powers in other cases where he didn't.
That makes the debate related to him kinda impossible to perform. If we take only whats in the movies about him( mostly Justice League cause thats the one i know) , he'd get raped by Goke. If we take whats in the comics (where he has light) he'd rape Goku. It's all a matter of circumstances.
The idea is that he never fought somebody at lightspeed anywhere. So maybe he can only fly with that speed, but he can't move his limbs at that speed. In that case he'd lose to Goku. The only thing that makes him superior is the light speed he has, cause the endurance is debatable and i think i can pull Goku out as superior in endurance and strength(again from the movies).
Did Supes actually move a planet anywhere cause that could be troublesome.
Originally posted by radu1234
About Goku beating Superman... i didnt study the thread about it yet.Everything about superman is contradictive. In one place has light speed in another he has just a bigger speed, but acceptable. In one place he's super resistant, in another he gets beaten up from a couple of fists.
The creator of Superman tried to make his Godlike, but then he realised that an invincible hero would, in the end, bore everybody because in every scenario he just wins in seconds and goes home. So to make him more attractive they gave him Godlike powers in some cases where he needed it and lamer powers in other cases where he didn't.
That makes the debate related to him kinda impossible to perform. If we take only whats in the movies about him( mostly Justice League cause thats the one i know) , he'd get raped by Goke. If we take whats in the comics (where he has light) he'd rape Goku. It's all a matter of circumstances.
The idea is that he never fought somebody at lightspeed anywhere. So maybe he can only fly with that speed, but he can't move his limbs at that speed. In that case he'd lose to Goku. The only thing that makes him superior is the light speed he has, cause the endurance is debatable and i think i can pull Goku out as superior in endurance and strength(again from the movies).
Did Supes actually move a planet anywhere cause that could be troublesome.
That's true, but to be honest Goku/DBZ in general is just as, if not more inconsistent.
Many characters in DBZ can destroy planets, but when they launch energy blasts and they hit the ground they only make a small crater.
Goku and Krillin in DB moved so fast in one battle that you couldn't even see them, but then in DBZ SSJ3 GOKU MOVED SLOW ENOUGH THAT YOU COULD SEE HIM!!!!!!
It's debatable what the power level requirement is to destroy a planet, but let's just say that it's 500 (it doesn't really matter the number, either way it's lopsided). Mathematically that means that the farmer w/a power level of 5 has the power to destroy several Everests, and that it would take a power level in the quadrillions to destroy a galaxy (like what Broly did) so surely Broly must have a power level in the quadrillions!!
Kid Buu survived a planet destroying blast, but couldn't survive the spirit bomb. The spirit bomb didn't even create a crater the size of a nuke, and yet it was able to kill Buu when a planet destroying blast couldn't.
Random ki blasts that only make small craters in the ground can harm Cell, but the firepower of the entire military (which created something far greater than a single crater) couldn't even scratch him.
Goku survives great punishment and shows remarkable durability...but then gets hurt by Krillin throwing a rock at him.
Goten gets more hurt by getting stepped on than by a ki blast.
Etc...
Vader won't need a camera crew filming him, he needs access to a TV where a world leader might be on the tube addressing his or her nation. Obama makes one of is patented speeches and Vader, sitting in a recliner, chokes him.
That was a joke, right ?
The beautiful thing about the Rise of the Empire era is that the multiple movies, books, and games have a tendency to contradict each other in the strangest of ways. We see a Yoda a year from death slowly lifting an X-Wing and a Palpatine going from casually chucking senate pods to letting himself get picked up and tossed aside. Vader goes from doing barely anything in the OT to being a TK god in the TFU---which is set a year earlier. Vader could probably catch one tank shell, but not multiple at once.
K, i agree, he can block one shell, but not a bombardament so he's dead.
The issue of lightsaber-to-bullet contact hasn't been resolved. Our physics make sense to us, but taking Star Wars physics (such as a pure energy beam slicing through a fictional alloy) into account makes it nigh-impossible to calculate an accurate result. But yeah, a barrage of 50 cal., whether they can penetrate his armor or not, will knock him on his ass.
i'm still holding on to the lightsaber beam melting or gasifing the metal(in both cases Vader dies), but not just making it vanish thing because i'm positive i'm right here as well (Nemesis stopped posting because he agreed or because he got bored but i don't think he got bored), but let's not start another huge debate on this matter and call it a draw since he'd still die through other means anyway.
@kotorfan: We have ropes that can resist to tens of tons of pressure but those ropes are hard to manipulate(being so strong) and expensive so maybe the mythbusters tried it with easier to manipulate ones. But this doesnt matter because the plane would spin around the AT himself not because of the rope forceing it to make a circular movement( i mean the rope would be loose and the plane spin around himself). It's not that the rope would break from the spinning force , but that fact that i'd detach from the plane because of the force.
Anyhow those AT's couldn't pass even hills so they're useless.
man, did u read the other posts. If the bullet would gasify(humans couldnt so far gasify metals) it would explode badly... Vader would be dead.
The force of the explosion will have a 10^5+ order so...imagine the blast(10^5 atm in out 1 atm environment)
The explosion will not only create a huge pressure, but also spray Vader with atoms having the temperature of the lightsaber beam and basicly melt his armor and burn him alive...just check the previous posts i explained it quite well i belive.
The question was if the bullet would still...exist after it passed through the lightsaber, but where will it dissappear. It can't incinerate. The lightsaber creates only heat so how can the bullet just dissappear. Where would the atoms go ...it's stupid, sry to say it. The statement that the bullet would dissappear is also baseless since everywhere in Star Wars the lightsaber melts or incinerates things. Nothing dissappears.
PS: i calculated the pressure with the formula PV=vRT. The temperature would have to be over 10k since at 3k it barely melts...also we could reach 10k easly and we couldnt gasify metal, but... w/e 10k it enough.
Originally posted by radu1234No, it wasn't.
That was a joke, right ?
Originally posted by radu1234It's too difficult to tell accurately. We've yet to create a continuous loop of pure energy that cuts through diamond like butter. But as far it can be seen, a lightsaber's energy output is strong and "dense" enough to at least deflect energy, if not absorb it (i.e. electricity). We've seen that blaster fire has some metaphorical weght behind it, and the simplest of Jedi is seen delfecting those. Vader's incredible physical endurance can withstand the kinetic energy a single speeding pullet possesses, and the capabilities of an energy blade will help further. But ultimately, if Vader is dumb enough to throw himself in to a hail of gunfire, he's going down one way or another.
i'm still holding on to the lightsaber beam melting or gasifing the metal(in both cases Vader dies), but not just making it vanish thing because i'm positive i'm right here as well (Nemesis stopped posting because he agreed or because he got bored but i don't think he got bored), but let's not start another huge debate on this matter and call it a draw since he'd still die through other means anyway.
Originally posted by radu1234Being little more than support for the big guns, AT-STs aren't of much use if left on their own. Uneven terrain is their biggest challenge--it'd actually be amusing to see them struggling through the ruins of a metropolis. The AT-ATs though aren't subject to such disadvantages (the acronym of All-Terrain speaking for itself). For them, lack of speed is what's gonna do them in. Eventually, even if missiles can't penetrate their main armor, some commander is eventually gonna look at that neck section.
Anyhow those AT's couldn't pass even hills so they're useless.