Originally posted by Burning thoughtIf he gets hit by Raziel he has enough skill to immediately attack him and get the better of him. Raziel also can't start out the battle invisible.
He fought an invisible man in water. Water that can show Kratos where Perseus (iirc?) was even if he was invisible. Theres nothing Kratos can do here to save himself from a reave/claw to the face and he will be thrown about the place with TK.
Not he cant but considering base Raziel is quicker and more agile than Kratos and Raziel takes a second or so to become invisible its hardly a problem. Also your forgetting Raziel can hold Kratos in TK and sitll attack using TK shackles. Kratos could be held solid in the air or on the ground as Raziel, an invisable Raziel no less that can move with agility in non predictable patterns can just reave Kratos' soul.
You cant get the better of someone who can go invsible and leap around the place. iirc Raziel can also freeze people, Kratos could end up as a block of ice.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtHe's not quicker and more agile. Seriously how can you say he's either if you played the gow games. Kain easily stops him and tosses him like a ragdoll so Kratos is going to not let him off easy since he wants to kill him unlike Kain.
Not he cant but considering base Raziel is quicker and more agile than Kratos and Raziel takes a second or so to become invisible its hardly a problem. Also your forgetting Raziel can hold Kratos in TK and sitll attack using TK shackles. Kratos could be held solid in the air or on the ground as Raziel, an invisable Raziel no less that can move with agility in non predictable patterns can just reave Kratos' soul.You cant get the better of someone who can go invsible and leap around the place. iirc Raziel can also freeze people, Kratos could end up as a block of ice.
Raziel isn't portrayed like this at all during the games you are arguing sheer power set again. Kratos with power set also wins due to his weapons, magic, and rage abilities.
Ive played the GoW games and the majority of times Kratos is simply slow or lumbering unless hes using game defined objects like points to swing from using the blades of Chaos. Kain easily stops him because at that point Kain is not only faster than Kratos and has higher reactions but more importantly, Raziel is not invisible or using TK to hamper Kain.
Your argueing from a comic book point of view, games dont have "showings" like Comics do where writers can portray the characters differently. What Raziel has at his disposal combined with real intelligence that he has outlines what Raziel would use. Kratos with power set does not have the right weapons to defend against someone who can kill you in a hit, move quicker, go invisible and mess up any defence you have by tossing you around.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtWhen he is slow in the game? What points is he just too slow to react to something Raziel is quick enough to react to?
Ive played the GoW games and the majority of times Kratos is simply slow or lumbering unless hes using game defined objects like points to swing from using the blades of Chaos. Kain easily stops him because at that point Kain is not only faster than Kratos and has higher reactions but more importantly, Raziel is not invisible or using TK to hamper Kain.Your argueing from a comic book point of view, games dont have "showings" like Comics do where writers can portray the characters differently. What Raziel has at his disposal combined with real intelligence that he has outlines what Raziel would use. Kratos with power set does not have the right weapons to defend against someone who can kill you in a hit, move quicker, go invisible and mess up any defence you have by tossing you around.
Who has Raziel killed with a hit?
Kratos is bereft of incredibly impressive feats of reaction, and this whole lightning reaction thing is not quite truth. My point is not how quick Raziel can react, but how agile he is. Kratos has never done anything through his power power (just his legs) that would allow him to mimic Raziels agility. It would be impossible anyway, based on Kratos' feats he would bury himself in the dirt by trying to put a lot of strength into his legs for a leap.
Anyone he impales with the reaver during the games. No notable storyline characters as he does not use it on Kain or Moebius etc.
Kratos blocks a near point blank explosion. High supersonic reaction time here.
He blocks lightning. Undeniable. Unavoidable. Canon.
He reacts to Charon's speed in a cutscene. Casually as fast as Arkham from DMC 3.
He defeats Zeus who can teleport, fly, split up into 8 physical clones all of which can do the same.
Hermes maybe weak, but he's still fast enough to run down Mt Olympus and ignore gravity completely by running UP a completely 90 degree vertical chain. Kratos had no trouble hitting him either.
Raziel is not particularly fast, every speedster from GoW is faster than him. He is also a million or so times weaker than Kratos.
He has no means of winning whatsoever.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtWhen has Raziel shown incredible reaction times because if you played the gow games then I cannot honestly get how you are acting like Raziel is faster in any manner.
Kratos is bereft of incredibly impressive feats of reaction, and this whole lightning reaction thing is not quite truth. My point is not how quick Raziel can react, but how agile he is. Kratos has never done anything through his power power (just his legs) that would allow him to mimic Raziels agility. It would be impossible anyway, based on Kratos' feats he would bury himself in the dirt by trying to put a lot of strength into his legs for a leap.Anyone he impales with the reaver during the games. No notable storyline characters as he does not use it on Kain or Moebius etc.
Raziel isn't impaling Kratos.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Kratos blocks a near point blank explosion. High supersonic reaction time here.He blocks lightning. Undeniable. Unavoidable. Canon.
He reacts to Charon's speed in a cutscene. Casually as fast as Arkham from DMC 3.
He defeats Zeus who can teleport, fly, split up into 8 physical clones all of which can do the same.
Hermes maybe weak, but he's still fast enough to run down Mt Olympus and ignore gravity completely by running UP a completely 90 degree vertical chain. Kratos had no trouble hitting him either.
Raziel is not particularly fast, every speedster from GoW is faster than him. He is also a million or so times weaker than Kratos.
He has no means of winning whatsoever.
The only thing thats interesting in that list and that I have not refuted elseware is perhaps the Charon thing which is I assume from Chains of olympus? can you show me this please?
Apart from invisibility, TK that negates everything you just listed and a weapon that ignores durability.
Originally posted by quanchi112
When has Raziel shown incredible reaction times because if you played the gow games then I cannot honestly get how you are acting like Raziel is faster in any manner.Raziel isn't impaling Kratos.
I am not talking of reaction times as reaction time is irrelevant, Kratos cant do anything thats that fast. Show me something where Kratos unaided is fast?
The invisible Raziel isnt impaling the Kratos who will be under his TK control and clueless to where the leaping, wild little devil is? ofc he is....
Originally posted by Burning thoughtKratos takes on the god of speed and beats the crap out of him. Now sho wme where Raziel wins due to his crazy reaction times or where he shows us he's really, really fast.
The only thing thats interesting in that list and that I have not refuted elseware is perhaps the Charon thing which is I assume from Chains of olympus? can you show me this please?Apart from invisibility, TK that negates everything you just listed and a weapon that ignores durability.
I am not talking of reaction times as reaction time is irrelevant, Kratos cant do anything thats that fast. Show me something where Kratos unaided is fast?
The invisible Raziel isnt impaling the Kratos who will be under his TK control and clueless to where the leaping, wild little devil is? ofc he is....
If youve played the game, you would know that Hermes
Spoiler:therefore negating hermes only real advantage.
gets wounded badly so that he can hardly run properly, Kratos wins purely by fighting dirty and surprising Hermes while hermes cannot escape the huge catapult that smashes and harms him
Thing is, Hermes cant go invisible either or TK to completly undermine any effort Kratos makes.
Why show you something youve seen before? the SR 2 intro?
Originally posted by Burning thoughtHe's still very fast when you fight him and much faster than Raziel.
If youve played the game, you would know that HermesSpoiler:therefore negating hermes only real advantage.
gets wounded badly so that he can hardly run properly, Kratos wins purely by fighting dirty and surprising Hermes while hermes cannot escape the huge catapult that smashes and harms himThing is, Hermes cant go invisible either or TK to completly undermine any effort Kratos makes.
Why show you something youve seen before? the SR 2 intro?
What does he do in the sr2 intro besides get toyed with by Kain.
I dont think so, hes making slow and misjudged movements around the very small area he has left to him. He even gasps for breath at times, considering he cant hurt Kratos its only a certain small amount of time until hermes gets his legs cut....the actual speed Kratos faces is poor, when Hermes uses speed he outclasses Kratos. Problem is, Hermes never fought him, only ran until the end when he was weak.
He leaps up the wall, at one point vertically and jumps in a way I doubt Kratos could repeat (I know he cant, his strength would break the wall and leave him falling).
Originally posted by Burning thoughtHe's still faster than Raziel at this point and Raziel hasn't beaten on anyone with even close to his speed.
I dont think so, hes making slow and misjudged movements around the very small area he has left to him. He even gasps for breath at times, considering he cant hurt Kratos its only a certain small amount of time until hermes gets his legs cut....the actual speed Kratos faces is poor, when Hermes uses speed he outclasses Kratos. Problem is, Hermes never fought him, only ran until the end when he was weak.He leaps up the wall, at one point vertically and jumps in a way I doubt Kratos could repeat (I know he cant, his strength would break the wall and leave him falling).
Raziel gets slapped around by Kain and he's not even trying to kill him only toy with him. Kain could never toy with Kratos at all in the same manner he casually tosses raziel around.
Not sure about that tbh, having played the fight the only time Kratos actually gets hits in is when Hermes quite often slows down and stands to take a breath.
Thats because Kain is not as strong as Kratos, thing is Kain would not toy with someone as strong as Kratos and neither would Raziel. They have Tk and other forces at their disposal to dispose of faster or stronger entities. Raziel has more than enough time what with invisability/TK to get a hit in.