Telepathy is one mind touching another from my understnading and from several defintions I just read.....Kain is not touching anyones mind with his own...
But yes, the magic nature of the spell makes it require certain resistances, just like how having the ability to stop reality warping is important in resisting it, just like how stopping flames, ice, lightning, soul destroying etc are all necessery to stop their relevent offensive attacks, you cant pull out a resistance from thin air and having resistane against physical might does not equel resistance agaisnt soul or reality warping etc. You need to right defence to stop the offence, Sephiroth has not.
Right.
Despite Inspire Hate having the same effect of any other empathetic attack which causes you to go super berserk, it requires a special resistance simply because it is magical. 🙂
Now to be serious.
Wanna know what the difference is between what you are claiming is needed and the examples you brought up?
I'll tell you.
Reality warping is entirely different. Reality warping allows you to bend the laws of time/space to your whim, and basically break the fundamental forces of reality. Of course you need a resistance to this, reality warping is the most powerful basic power in existence short of actual omniscience.
Soul attacks bypass physical defenses and attack an area vulnerable to most, the soul.
The elemental attacks need some specific resistances because of the varying affects they do, fire burns, ice freezes, and lightning surges through you.
Inspire Hate is your basic empathetic spell which causes whomever is affected by it to go berserk and attack allies. It is an empathetic attack, so mental resistance is required to stop it. However, your notion that even a being with mental resistance cannot stop it simply because of the fact that the spell is magical is flawed, illogical, and stupid. Despite being magic, it has a known effect, it targets your mind. Why would a being that has mental resistance not be able to resist it simply because it is magical? Simple answer, he would resist it, rather easily, being magical is meaningless when the effect is the same as a non-magical effect.
Although I really do not care who wins this fight, nor do I even think Sephiroth can resist the spell. "Willpower" is not enough of a reason to say he can resist the spell when he has never resisted something similar(to my knowledge).
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Right.Despite Inspire Hate having the same effect of any other empathetic attack which causes you to go super berserk, it requires a special resistance simply because it is magical. 🙂
Now to be serious.
Wanna know what the difference is between what you are claiming is needed and the examples you brought up?
I'll tell you.
Reality warping is entirely different. Reality warping allows you to bend the laws of time/space to your whim, and basically break the fundamental forces of reality. Of course you need a resistance to this, reality warping is the most powerful basic power in existence short of actual omniscience.
Soul attacks bypass physical defenses and attack an area vulnerable to most, the soul.
The elemental attacks need some specific resistances because of the varying affects they do, fire burns, ice freezes, and lightning surges through you.
Inspire Hate is your basic empathetic spell which causes whomever is affected by it to go berserk and attack allies. It is an empathetic attack, so mental resistance is required to stop it. However, your notion that even a being with mental resistance cannot stop it simply because of the fact that the spell is magical is flawed, illogical, and stupid. Despite being magic, it has a known effect, it targets your mind. Why would a being that has mental resistance not be able to resist it simply because it is magical? Simple answer, he would resist it, rather easily, being magical is meaningless when the effect is the same as a non-magical effect.
Although I really do not care who wins this fight, nor do I even think Sephiroth can resist the spell. "Willpower" is not enough of a reason to say he can resist the spell when he has never resisted something similar(to my knowledge).
it doesnt require a "special" resistance, it requires a resistance to it just like all spells, its not just Kain using his mind to change someone elses, having stronger willpower doesnt mean anything, Kain is not using his own willpower to use the spells effects, hes using a spell, which is why its absurd to think willpower is going to make a diffrence because willpower does not go into the creation of the spell, despite it changing a beings mind, its through another effect.
And inspire hate hits your mind with a spell, not with willpower or any kind of mental force, its magic spell, the fact its not a bolt of energy doesnt make a diffrence. No the effect is the same but to reverse the effect to defend against it you would have to have resistance against its element, its like trying to fight armour piercing rounds with light plates, its not the right defence regardless of the fact the spells effect affects the mind.
Originally posted by Burning thought
What do you call bullet blocking? a guy pointing a gun at you and fireing in the same direction while you have your sword in the way? the guys accuracy was terrible, as if that requires speed. A normal human with some concentration can move an object the size of Clouds sword in the path of a predicatable bullet.
A. He shoots at many different places, Head, Shoulders, Body, Legs.
B. Cloud moves his sword 90 degree angles to block bullets.
C. Cloud slashes his sword to block bullets. (Sharp side.)
D. No normal human could ever do this.
E. Yazoo missed one shot, you call that inaccurate.
Again, this is a feat of reflex that he can react to a bullet. This is much faster than anything Raziel or Kain has shown.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Ofcourse its Tking cells, thats all blood is ,loose cells, kain [b]would have to have control over the cells to keep the blood together otherwise it wouldnt be going towards him like that.
[/B]
A. Blood is a fluid.
B. He doesn't move it at a cellular level, only at the fluid level.
C. It only works with blood, hence the name.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You have confusion with what is canon and what is not, I thnk your confused between gameplay whcih is usable, and gameplay mechanics, which are not taken into account in a debate due to their nature such as health bars, things in gameplay, e.g. items and powers dont always need a cinematic to state their canon, Kain drinking blood through TK is what he has always done, its a canon ability.
A. No you are confusing them, I use your inane rules to show how wrong you are.
B. Gameplay = Using Materia. Game Mechanics = All of the numbers behind the materia (cast time, damage, mp used etc)
C. Drinking blood != tking cells.
Originally posted by Burning thought
What are you talking about? not as much control? hes moving it..the fact he needs it in his body means nothing, he would send Sephiroths cells somewhere else, like spraying across the air or into Cloud for a joke.
A. He never moves any cells anywhere other than into him.
B. The 'Spell' is only meant for blood, and he is only seen doing it to blood.
C. The 'Spell' is used to replenish him.
Originally posted by Burning thought
And prove sephiroths will is greater than Kains.....Kain has incredible intellect and willpower....
A. Held back Holy.
B. Came back to life, several times.
C. He holds the knowledge of the Ancients.
D. Kains Will has no feats.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Against sephiroth or his cells? singulour they may be weak, you would have to prove their durabiliy, Kain has lightning, energy bolts, frost, flame, you name it, not that its relevent ofcourse, most of what he can do would destroy them and he could just toss them to the furthest reaches of the battlefield.
A. Sephiroth is made up of his cells. Obviously.
B. No single cell has ever been harmed on Sephiroths body.
C. No it wouldn't.
D. One of the reasons Sephiroth is so tough is because of his cells.
Originally posted by Burning thought
no you see Cloud and co are lifted up by Willpower, you cant assume Sephiroth is actually creating a physical force to lift them which would be what TK is doing, for all we know its some supernatural ability that he just happens to have.
A. Do you realise how insane that is then? He wouldn't have any limit on his Will. Because lifting a person wouldn't require anymore Will then crushing a planet because it has no measurement.
B. Will isn't a supernatural ability for most people, everyone practices Will every day.
C. We are talking about Will affecting things outside of the body.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Your talking as if Holy is alive, can you prove its alive? I am sorry but I dont have to go and buy your evidence, if you cant display the evidence in a way I can see it as an offical text its no good.
A. No, I am not. Holy can move.
B. I am not illegaly uploading a scan of a book just to prove something to you, go read the online english translation.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No you see your the one adding "kinetic" force to the statement, Sephiroth is just making it move, I dont know how and its all nice and well assuming he is creating some sort of TK effect, but tbh its not really relevent, he doesnt affect cells anyway.
A. So Will does something with nothing.
B. "Making it move" What does moving something entail then Burning Thought?
C. He can affect the things that cells make up.
D. if we went with your logic Will would be heaps better then TK, because it doesn't have any kind of measurement (like force, or action).
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats what I said before, 3-4 seconds, thats a long time to be standing around in a battle isnt it....when both your opponents with a wave of their hand could stop you from doing it.
A. No. Wave of what hand doing what?
B. 3 Seconds is fast enough against Kain or Raziel.
0-SZURW9YcE&feature=related
Originally posted by Burning thought
In this video at 4:04 Kain pretty much instantly (less than a second to be exact) creates the repel shield, one which reflects all spells and protects him from physical harm as well. immedialtey Team 1 are screwed. Then you have:
A. Gameplay mechanic.
B. Show me it taking the physical force that Sephiroth can dish out.
C. He lifts his hand up, that is enough for Sephiroth to cut it off.
Originally posted by Burning thought
YouTube videoHere (5:07) you see Kain pretty much instantly on a whim blast Raziel with lightning, he didnt take 3 seconds or even close....
A. He brings his sword up, Sephiroth and Cloud can react to that and slice him apart when he is defenseless.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Now take into account Kain has a vast amount of such spells which he could obliterate this team with. hes also got reaver spells:7LTpwokoywE&feature=related
At 0:43, take into account using the same power he can slow time, instantly teleport through dimension multiple times and cause that inspire hate I mentioned earlier.
A. Gameplay mechanic.
B. It doesn't seem powerful at all. It might knock Cloud back, but Sephiroth...
C. So now it is slow time? The amount that it slows is a gameplay mechanic. Lets see a Canon usage of it.
D. Inspire Hate == Sephiroth kills Cloud then Raziel and Kain, that is if it could even affect Sephiroth.
E. Why is Kain able to Inspire Hate before Sephiroth could create any Illusion to confuse Kain? Sephiroths reflexes and speed is greater then Kains.
Originally posted by Burning thought
lol nonsense, shot before he could think, the gunner was useless, he was slow and predictable. its the kind of shot James bond could regularly dodge. Now give Raziel a huge lump of metal like that sword and he wouldnt hardly have to do anything to stop those bullets.
A. Yazoo would shoot Bond in the face.
B. He would have to react, which he couldn't do. A bullet would hit him before he could think to react.
C. Yazoo isn't aiming at the sword! Stop trying to debate this. Stop trolling.
D. The size of the sword isn't as big as you say, go look at it!
Originally posted by Burning thought
wtf, where does it state he is controlling every limb? hell where did you get controlling from? all we hear from the team is that they feel like their being torn, nothing about him controlling the limbs at all, hes just lifting them and causing them pain a lot like how Kain does to Moebius. lmao, smaller than blood cells? dont be ridiculous....
A. They specifically say they con't control themselves. King-Fingfolfen already showed you this.
B. Body == the entire structure of an organism (an animal, plant, or human being); "he felt as if his whole body were on fire"
C. I didn't say that.
Originally posted by Burning thought
B: prove thos
Okay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8CiSR_Muk&feature=related 4:25 (5:20 for the actualy teleportation)
Originally posted by Burning thought
D: if something is contained its force is next ot nothing as soon as its contained, it has zero momentum, like Cloud trying to run when Raziel has him floating about the ground...he wont get any momentum...
No, you are wrong. You are right it does have no momentum, but it can still have force. Yeah, in that case it is correct, because Cloud needs to have his legs on the ground or solid to move.
Originally posted by Burning thought
A. Prove this is what he did to holy
It was in a sphere shape, Holy was trying to accomplish its goal, but was stuck in Sephiroths will.
Originally posted by Burning thought
B. not seen the clip, ive not seen any teleportaton clip in this thread.
It is up there ^.
Originally posted by Burning thought
C. lol wtf, little mini sephiroths, now your assuming, reaching and making up rubbish, their tiny cells and regardless of his will excisting, you cannot prove it can bring up any force like its shown previously to stop Kain from abusing his cells.
Haha, no I am not, I was trying to explain it to you like you were a little child.
Yes, yes I can, cells cannot slip through any force, just because they are small, this idea is stupid, a cell cannot go through a solid object.
Originally posted by Burning thought
D. oh aye, he will.
How?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Unless you can point out why a magic spell whos effect is completly magical alteration would be stopped just because of some fools willpower? its like saying willpower will stop a fireball in the air..dont be daft...
A. Sephiroth stopped Holy with his will, which is by far more powerful then a simple fireball.
B. You are the one being daft, multiple times I have shown you Cloud moves his sword when deflecting the bullets, yet you keep saying he just keeps it in one spot.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain cant react to Raziels attacks? when lol, Kain has never actually fought Raziel in anger or with purpose to harm him s you dont know what your talking about, not that speed is relevent for characters who are being dispersed or frozen by TK and time slowing powers.
A. I never said he couldn't, try reading.
B. If only we went off what they are capable off instead of just what we have seen.
C. Kains TK is < Sephiroths Will.
D. Kains time slowing power is horrible, 1\4 their speed. Plus that is a gameplay mechanic (The amount it freezes them by)
Originally posted by Burning thought
Cutting and slashing ive shown, although tbh, Ive not seen any sword skills from Sephiroth beyond any typical swordsman, both human or otherwise so you would have to assume Kain is slower and weaker than a human before we can claim he is worse than Sephiroth.
A. The cutting and slashing that doesn't match Sephiroth in the slightest.
B. A typical swordsman could not slash his sword four times, in four different angles in a second.
C. No, you are just ignoring Sephiroths abilities.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thier still corpses, Kain for one has no heart and no real functions in his body, the power that keeps him moving would have to be overcome to stop Kain, thing is, Sephiroth has no way of stopping such magical forces, infact its unlikely their even magical but as i said, I doubt oyu can prove the dead are affected by this virus. And its important because lifestream is the source of beings in the FF world.
A. They are not dead.
B. What?
C. He isn't dead.
D. The virus just transforms organisms into Jenova monsters.
E. In the context of what you said: It had no relavence at all.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Stop complaining about having to repeat yourself when your doing the exact same thing to me, unless you want to concede on your points to move onto some new ones?
A. You are the one that says Cloud doesn't move his sword to stop the bullets when he does.
B. You are the one that says Sephiroth is a normal swordsman when he isn't, he is clearly much more.
C. You are the one that says Kain can control cells of an alien being that have their own instincts, which you can't prove.
D. You are the one that says Sephiroths will is nothing, when it has done more then Kain and Raziels TK put together.
Originally posted by Burning thought
The time powers I think ive shown you before, youve not seen Kains huge list of powers, they work in exactley the same way as the Repel shield I showed you earlier and Kains reaver blast, only ofcourse with diffrent effects after their casting.http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo1/spells.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo2/gifts.php
The time power pales in comparison the the Time materia in FF 7, it is nothing and it its measurement is only in gameplay mechanics, just like the time materia.
So he throws his hand in the air for every spell? That is enough time for Sephiroth to fly several miles into the air, or to Kain.
His hand would need to be faster than a bullet moving to stop Sephiroth or Cloud from reacting to it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Where did it say that? and that still does not mean that its hard to control, hell all it required for it to be defeated is some cells from an alien entity, just because its the energy used in all these features does not make it powerful.In canon he is rarely harmed and never killed, he cant be, and as shown by Defiance even things that should kill him outright cant. He is immortal and the wheel of life/death cannot take him either.
Whats weak assed about it? you dont know anything about it and Sephiroth has zero spel lresistance, news flash...its a spell, not just a mental attack whihc is why sephiroth would fail to it along with Cloud.
A. In several thousand cut scenes it talks about the lifestream, at the beginning of AC they talk about the lifestream, the lifestream is everything in FF 7.
B. You are making it seem like a bad feat.
C. It wasn't defeated, Sephiroth just gained control over it from the planet.
D. Yes, it is the source of all things, a persons strength and speed is from the lifestream, everything is from the lifestream, it can rip apart anything, because it makes everything.
E. Inspire Hate, will only make Sephiroth kill Cloud, Kain wouldn't gain anything more from doing that IF he could do it on Sephiroth.
Originally posted by Burning thought
its a spell/magic force making it happen, thus, you would have to be able to stop the magic force from happening, which Sephiroth cannot do. The fact the magic is making his mind think something diffrent, even if we assume he does actually contiously somehow figuire out Kain has just instantly confused his mind with some insidious skill (obvoulsy he wouldnt know in reality) then he still does not have it within his means to stop the magic from affecting his mind, if it was just a psychic power then maybe he could but no, not if its a spell, he has no resistance.
He has stopped much more powerful magical forces, for example Holy, it could destroy planets, compare that to Inspire Hate.
So, what can Kain or Raziel do against the Jenova Virus, Sephiroths Will, Sephiroths sword or Sephiroths illusions?
Originally posted by K1ll3r
A. He shoots at many different places, Head, Shoulders, Body, Legs.
B. Cloud moves his sword 90 degree angles to block bullets.
C. Cloud slashes his sword to block bullets. (Sharp side.)
D. No normal human could ever do this.
E. Yazoo missed one shot, you call that inaccurate.Again, this is a feat of reflex that he can react to a bullet. This is much faster than anything Raziel or Kain has shown.
A. Blood is a fluid.
B. He doesn't move it at a cellular level, only at the fluid level.
C. It only works with blood, hence the name.A. No you are confusing them, I use your inane rules to show how wrong you are.
B. Gameplay = Using Materia. Game Mechanics = All of the numbers behind the materia (cast time, damage, mp used etc)
C. Drinking blood != tking cells.A. He never moves any cells anywhere other than into him.
B. The 'Spell' is only meant for blood, and he is only seen doing it to blood.
C. The 'Spell' is used to replenish him.A. Held back Holy.
B. Came back to life, several times.
C. He holds the knowledge of the Ancients.
D. Kains Will has no feats.A. Sephiroth is made up of his cells. Obviously.
B. No single cell has ever been harmed on Sephiroths body.
C. No it wouldn't.
D. One of the reasons Sephiroth is so tough is because of his cells.A. Do you realise how insane that is then? He wouldn't have any limit on his Will. Because lifting a person wouldn't require anymore Will then crushing a planet because it has no measurement.
B. Will isn't a supernatural ability for most people, everyone practices Will every day.
C. We are talking about Will affecting things outside of the body.A. No, I am not. Holy can move.
B. I am not illegaly uploading a scan of a book just to prove something to you, go read the online english translation.A. So Will does something with nothing.
B. "Making it move" What does moving something entail then Burning Thought?
C. He can affect the things that cells make up.
D. if we went with your logic Will would be heaps better then TK, because it doesn't have any kind of measurement (like force, or action).A. No. Wave of what hand doing what?
B. 3 Seconds is fast enough against Kain or Raziel.0-SZURW9YcE&feature=related
A. Gameplay mechanic.
B. Show me it taking the physical force that Sephiroth can dish out.
C. He lifts his hand up, that is enough for Sephiroth to cut it off.A. He brings his sword up, Sephiroth and Cloud can react to that and slice him apart when he is defenseless.
A. Gameplay mechanic.
B. It doesn't seem powerful at all. It might knock Cloud back, but Sephiroth...
C. So now it is slow time? The amount that it slows is a gameplay mechanic. Lets see a Canon usage of it.
D. Inspire Hate == Sephiroth kills Cloud then Raziel and Kain, that is if it could even affect Sephiroth.
E. Why is Kain able to Inspire Hate before Sephiroth could create any Illusion to confuse Kain? Sephiroths reflexes and speed is greater then Kains.A. Yazoo would shoot Bond in the face.
B. He would have to react, which he couldn't do. A bullet would hit him before he could think to react.
C. Yazoo isn't aiming at the sword! Stop trying to debate this. Stop trolling.
D. The size of the sword isn't as big as you say, go look at it!A. They specifically say they con't control themselves. King-Fingfolfen already showed you this.
B. Body == the entire structure of an organism (an animal, plant, or human being); "he felt as if his whole body were on fire"
C. I didn't say that.Okay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8CiSR_Muk&feature=related 4:25 (5:20 for the actualy teleportation)
No, you are wrong. You are right it does have no momentum, but it can still have force. Yeah, in that case it is correct, because Cloud needs to have his legs on the ground or solid to move.
It was in a sphere shape, Holy was trying to accomplish its goal, but was stuck in Sephiroths will.
It is up there ^.
A: doesnt stop the fact that Clouds sword is large AND the guy is predictable, and hes not aiming at those place,s his poor accuracy sends the bullets in the general direction,infact a lot of the bullets Cloud takes with his sword would be avoided fairly easily since their course is not accurate.
C. What time in the video does this happen, idont remember him doing that.
Reaction speed is not the same as movement speed, being able to react ot someone ripping you apart with TK, tearing your soul out, freezing you in time is useless.
-------------------------------
A+B
Theres no such thing as "fluid level" in TK control since he would still have to keep control of all the cells and moving them into place without the whole mass thats coming towards him spraying to the floor, it would be impssible.
C. false, it does not have a name, you must be confusing kains TK with the spell named blood shower which drains the blood of all beings in the area.
-----------------------------
I did not use any in-game rules, game mechanics are mechanics that are put in place for the gameplay, health bars, numbers, Kain drinking blood is not a gameplay mechanic, its an actual ability and is nothing to do with gameplay, numbers etc.
Are you under the illusion that the only things that excist are those in some form of cinematic? 🙄
------------------------------
So you admit he moves cells...and thats a stupid statement, only to him? yes because its blood and its what he drinks, hes not going to move Jenova cells to him is he...no....
By your logic I would lose my abiltiy to walk, see, touch, smell etc as soon as I step foot in china because ive never been there? no logic...dont be daft.
Yes the spell, I am talking about TK.....
---------------------------------
Kains will has no feats? what a foolish statement, everything Kain does is part of his will, his willpower to continue on his destiny changing, his thousands and thousands of years knowledge....his will could easily be beyond Sephiroths queer mind and hes obvioulsy miles more intelligent considering how Sephiroth reacts with Cloud and is defeated by Cloud so many times despite apprently having so many powers.
And holding back holy....an unkown force at the time..great...
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lmao, his never been hit according to you then you claim the reason why he is tough is because of his body, he has no feats of toughness or durability, he is worthless, thus why Kain would have an easy job of picking him apart.
----------------------------
A: something not having a measurement does not make it limitless, we have to base Sephirtohs strength with his willpower to the degree of his feats, which is lifting up Cloud and co...
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Sure it can move but how could you possibly know Holy was constantly trying to move, constantly trying to escape and if it was, its momentum and force would be nothing because its not moving while sephiroth is keeping it stuck.
---------------------------------
As I said before we have to go by his feats, assuming he has infnite power because he does not have a measruement is as it implies, assuming, which is bullshit ofcourse, may as well use fan fictions.
------------------------------------
A: Tk, one wave of the hand and Cloud or Sephiroth wil be on their asses, and they would have to start trying to cast a spell again....too long, so neither will cast spells.
B: Wave of his hand>3 seconds by far and wide....
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Its not, as i said your confused with whats a gameplay mechanic and whats gameplay.
And physical force? dont be daft, Sephiroth has made very little physical forces, and by canon that shield can take anything, its powered by Kains magic, which is infnite, you do the math. if that shield goes up, Cloud and sephiroth will be defeated by Kains bare hands...
---------------------------------
Being able to react to something and being able to actually move to stop something are two very different things, and Kain moves quicker doing that than either of them in actual sword skills.
---------------------------------
Ill wait until you understand what the diffrence is between gameplay, and a gameplay mechanic, as well as what is, and what is not canon, the entire game is canon to the series of LOK, what you think actually happened or not is based on the storyline and things that are not changed by the player, e.g. abilities such as slowing Sephiroth in time.
-----------------------------------
Teleportation=sluggish appearing since when? you also cannot account for how long it took for him to teleport, infact you dont even know if that was a teleport at all, it could be one of those illusions you keep going on about, he may have already been there and he was tricking them...
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Haha, no I am not, I was trying to explain it to you like you were a little child.
Yes, yes I can, cells cannot slip through any force, just because they are small, this idea is stupid, a cell cannot go through a solid object.How?
A. Sephiroth stopped Holy with his will, which is by far more powerful then a simple fireball.
B. You are the one being daft, multiple times I have shown you Cloud moves his sword when deflecting the bullets, yet you keep saying he just keeps it in one spot.A. I never said he couldn't, try reading.
B. If only we went off what they are capable off instead of just what we have seen.
C. Kains TK is < Sephiroths Will.
D. Kains time slowing power is horrible, 1\4 their speed. Plus that is a gameplay mechanic (The amount it freezes them by)A. The cutting and slashing that doesn't match Sephiroth in the slightest.
B. A typical swordsman could not slash his sword four times, in four different angles in a second.
C. No, you are just ignoring Sephiroths abilities.A. They are not dead.
B. What?
C. He isn't dead.
D. The virus just transforms organisms into Jenova monsters.
E. In the context of what you said: It had no relavence at all.A. You are the one that says Cloud doesn't move his sword to stop the bullets when he does.
B. You are the one that says Sephiroth is a normal swordsman when he isn't, he is clearly much more.
C. You are the one that says Kain can control cells of an alien being that have their own instincts, which you can't prove.
D. You are the one that says Sephiroths will is nothing, when it has done more then Kain and Raziels TK put together.The time power pales in comparison the the Time materia in FF 7, it is nothing and it its measurement is only in gameplay mechanics, just like the time materia.
So he throws his hand in the air for every spell? That is enough time for Sephiroth to fly several miles into the air, or to Kain.
His hand would need to be faster than a bullet moving to stop Sephiroth or Cloud from reacting to it.
A. In several thousand cut scenes it talks about the lifestream, at the beginning of AC they talk about the lifestream, the lifestream is everything in FF 7.
B. You are making it seem like a bad feat.
C. It wasn't defeated, Sephiroth just gained control over it from the planet.
D. Yes, it is the source of all things, a persons strength and speed is from the lifestream, everything is from the lifestream, it can rip apart anything, because it makes everything.
E. Inspire Hate, will only make Sephiroth kill Cloud, Kain wouldn't gain anything more from doing that IF he could do it on Sephiroth.
He has stopped much more powerful magical forces, for example Holy, it could destroy planets, compare that to Inspire Hate.
So, what can Kain or Raziel do against the Jenova Virus, Sephiroths Will, Sephiroths sword or Sephiroths illusions?
Then dont, its pathetic, makes you seem at that childish level and furthermore doesnt help. Sephiroth power is not solid, furthermore you did not answer my question, you cannot prove Sephiroth can use his powers of will such as stopping other objects or opponents from abusing his cells when he is fragmented, if that were the case he wouldnt bother reforming and would stay as a spirit or w/e.
Using the same power he uses to stop blood from spraying everywhere, he will concentrate on Sephiroths cells and pull them apart, plain and simple.
Were talking about actual willpower dude, i.e, a real humans willpower, not Sephirtohs strange alteration of Willpower that has effects of TK.
I dont remember saying he keeps it in one spot, although thats not what I am getting at regardless, Ime saying he has to do very little to stop bullets with a large sword or object for his defence. If he was doing the same with masurmane or w/e sephiroths sword is called it would be more impressive yet still irrelvent to his defence against Kain or Raziel.
You wouldnt want that, Kain would wipe out the Final fantasy unvierse with ease.....although in a real battle we DO USE what their capable of, what we have seen is just better evidence but not the only evidence.
Thats because a typical swordsman does not have Sephiroths genetic speed boost, but his skills are exactley the same, its fairly simple techinque.
No your just ignoring Kains.
Their both dead silly...the fact their walking about does not change that...
I could turn all 4 of these the other way around and claim your constantly claiming the opposite....we will still be in the same place....Cloud is a being, a much larger one who has his own instincts, that doesnt stop Raziel from tossing him about like a rag doll....these a tiny cells on the other hand...
The time power pales in comparison? how so? it freezes them solid (the single target version) or slows them (area version) and furthermore it does not take hours to cast! unlike slow FF spells.
fly several miles? lol......in a fanfiction perhaps.
No his hand would have to be faster than a bullet IF his goal was to hit them with his hand.....thing is he is not, he is casting a spell which their reaction times would be made irrelvent to.
Fine he doesnt need inspire hate, although tbh I only mentioned it because I thot this was the battle royale thread, Kain can kill both Cloud and Sephiroth by himself, he doesnt need them in-fighting.
lmao BS, it barely defeated meteor, destroy planets 🙄 altho thats physical force, nothing to do with stopping a spell from messing up his mind, its a diffrent effect.
The sword and will are nothing but physical forces, the will has done as much as made people float in the air and add some mild control all of which Kain could stop himself with a teleport, and the sword will never reach Kain or Raziel. Sephiroths illusions are not likely to work at all, a psychic in Blood omen who could control hordes of humans completly (far more powerful than illusion) tried to enter Kains mind and all he could possibly do was read Kains most obvious thoughts, Kain is not tricked by illusion. take into account that was the least intelligent and least powerful Kain.
What can Sephiroth do against Kains TK? regardless of whether you think Kain can split Sephiroth apart or not it would still stop him from casting any powers and from moving, he wouldnt be able to build up any real speed or to close the distacne.
What can sephiroth do against being slowed/forzen in time?
Lightning would prob blast sephirtoh to bits as well.
And Sephiroth would never stop Kain from casting repel shield, making hin invulerable.
Hell Sephiroths soul is his most vulerable, Kains sword will hunger for it, as will Kains spells, many of which can rip out souls.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
I'm not replying to the deluded fanboy.
Dont be daft, why would Screampaste assume you would reply to yourself.....
Fact 1
Kain and Raziel are not able to react to a bullet, compared to Cloud and Sephiroth who can and do so with ease. Sephiroth is able to move at speeds faster than a bullet, as Cloud has trouble keeping up with him and we can see Loz moving as fast as a bullet and Loz is not as fast as Sephiroth. Sephiroth also moves several miles in a second in the fight with Genesis.
Fact 1 References:
Final Fantasy: Advent Children
Final Fantasy: Crisis Core
Final Fantasy Advent Children Reunion Files
Fact 2
Sephiroth and Cloud are both capable of holding up 100+ pounds, while also throwing the object miles away, and through building walls.
Fact 2 References
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core
Fact 3
Sephiroth has held a force capable of lifting 1800(2150) tons worth of airship, thousands of miles into the air, and that could destroy planets, with his Will. Sephiroth can also lift 1000+ pounds into the air. Sephiroth can also pull down several tons worth of building.
Fact 3 References
Final Fantasy VII: Ultimania Omega
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Fact 4
Sephiroth is now Jenova, meaning he has all of the abilities of Jenova.
Mimic: Allows Sephiroth to read the minds of beings, especially memories.
Regeneration: Allows Sephiroths cells to come back together, to come back to original form.
Planet Travel: Jenova used planets that it took over as vessels to travel to other planets, Sephiroth can now do this.
Shape Shift: Sephiroth has shown to be able to shape shift a tentacle into a full body, really anything that is needed, for example something someone has memories of, Sephiroth can be. This is apart of the Mimic ability.
Jenova Virus: This will transform the organism injected with it, into a monster under the control of Sephiroth (Also insane).
Fact 4 References
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega - Page 112, 210 - 213,
Final Fantasy VII
Fact 5
Sephiroth has the entire knowledge of the ancients, plus at least half of a planets Lifestream, this means his mind contains everything inside of every Materia, and he has his own power source of which to use the Materia, so he basically can use ANY Materia.
Fact 5 References
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega - Page 216 - 217
Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Reunion Files
Final Fantasy VII
Fact 6
Sephiroth has survived being slammed through buildings walls, and forces that have crumpled metal beneath him meaning, his durability is not zero.
Sephiroth is also impervious to fire.
Fact 6 References
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core
Fact 7
Sephiroth is able to teleport, although it takes him a second to phase in. A bit like Kains teleportation, where the bright light phases him in and out.
Fact 7 Reference
Final Fantasy VII
Burning Thought:
1. Compare Kains Telekinesis and magical capabilities to Sephiroths Will and magical capabilities.
2. Compare Kains durability feats with Sephiroths durability feats.
3. Compare Kains fighting skill (Skill meaning, his speed, accuracy and strength with a sword) to Sephiroths.
4. Compare Kains reflexes to Sephiroths.
5. Compare Kains movement speed to Sephiroths.
6. Whatever you can add.
IMO:
1. Sephiroths Will > Kains Telekinesis. Kains magical capabilities > Sephiroths (Although only because he is able to cast his faster, Sephiroth has a lot of magic at his disposal even more than Kain)
2. I don't know enough about Kain on this.
3. Sephiroths fighting skill > Kains.
4. Sephiroths reflexes > Kains.
5. Sephiroths movement speed > Kains (even faster than his reflexes).
I am willing to accept Kain winning if you can prove it, as from what I have seen he is nothing to Sephiroth (Except in magical ways, he is better (cast time)).
I would like you to stop trying to downplay Clouds feat of reacting to bullets, you are clearly in denial, he only moves his sword after a bullet is shot, and he does move his sword, it is a feat and it is a great one.
Also, stop trying to say that Kains affinity over blood is affinity over everything. Blood just happens to contain cells, plasma, platelets, oxygen and other incredibly small things, just as a body happens to contain cells and other incredibly small things (and even blood).
Defintion of blood from wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn:
The fluid (red in vertebrates) that is pumped through the body by the heart and contains plasma, blood cells, and platelets; "blood carries oxygen ...
Also from what I have seen and read (from your sources) Kain seems to send his magic out in projectile form.
Edit
I forgot to add, Cloud can be stopped by Telekinesis fairly easily because he can't produce momentum without a solid object to push against first, compared to Sephiroth who can fly, so he doesn't need a solid object to push against.
Holy was destroying metoer, and the act of holies power was going to destroy the planet.
(You trying to talk about infinite power and will) I didn't say he had infinite power, I said using your logic it is immeasurable and therefore 0 = everything for Sephiroths Will, we need a way to measure it to define 'more power' in Will. E.g. Force is the physical manifestation of Sephiroths Will, just like Loz, Yazoo and Kadaj which is what I am saying.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
[b]Fact 1
Kain and Raziel are not able to react to a bullet, compared to Cloud and Sephiroth who can and do so with ease. Sephiroth is able to move at speeds faster than a bullet, as Cloud has trouble keeping up with him and we can see Loz moving as fast as a bullet and Loz is not as fast as Sephiroth. Sephiroth also moves several miles in a second in the fight with Genesis.Fact 1 References:
Final Fantasy: Advent Children
Final Fantasy: Crisis Core
Final Fantasy Advent Children Reunion FilesFact 2
Sephiroth and Cloud are both capable of holding up 100+ pounds, while also throwing the object miles away, and through building walls.Fact 2 References
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis CoreFact 3
Sephiroth has held a force capable of lifting 1800(2150) tons worth of airship, thousands of miles into the air, and that could destroy planets, with his Will. Sephiroth can also lift 1000+ pounds into the air. Sephiroth can also pull down several tons worth of building.Fact 3 References
Final Fantasy VII: Ultimania Omega
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VII: Advent ChildrenFact 4
Sephiroth is now Jenova, meaning he has all of the abilities of Jenova.Mimic: Allows Sephiroth to read the minds of beings, especially memories.
Regeneration: Allows Sephiroths cells to come back together, to come back to original form.
Planet Travel: Jenova used planets that it took over as vessels to travel to other planets, Sephiroth can now do this.
Shape Shift: Sephiroth has shown to be able to shape shift a tentacle into a full body, really anything that is needed, for example something someone has memories of, Sephiroth can be. This is apart of the Mimic ability.
Jenova Virus: This will transform the organism injected with it, into a monster under the control of Sephiroth (Also insane).
Fact 4 References
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega - Page 112, 210 - 213,
Final Fantasy VIIFact 5
Sephiroth has the entire knowledge of the ancients, plus at least half of a planets Lifestream, this means his mind contains everything inside of every Materia, and he has his own power source of which to use the Materia, so he basically can use ANY Materia.Fact 5 References
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega - Page 216 - 217
Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Reunion Files
Final Fantasy VIIFact 6
Sephiroth has survived being slammed through buildings walls, and forces that have crumpled metal beneath him meaning, his durability is not zero.Sephiroth is also impervious to fire.
Fact 6 References
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis CoreFact 7
Sephiroth is able to teleport, although it takes him a second to phase in. A bit like Kains teleportation, where the bright light phases him in and out.
Fact 7 Reference
Final Fantasy VII
Burning Thought:
1. Compare Kains Telekinesis and magical capabilities to Sephiroths Will and magical capabilities.
2. Compare Kains durability feats with Sephiroths durability feats.
3. Compare Kains fighting skill (Skill meaning, his speed, accuracy and strength with a sword) to Sephiroths.
4. Compare Kains reflexes to Sephiroths.
5. Compare Kains movement speed to Sephiroths.
6. Whatever you can add.IMO:
1. Sephiroths Will > Kains Telekinesis. Kains magical capabilities > Sephiroths (Although only because he is able to cast his faster, Sephiroth has a lot of magic at his disposal even more than Kain)
2. I don't know enough about Kain on this.
3. Sephiroths fighting skill > Kains.
4. Sephiroths reflexes > Kains.
5. Sephiroths movement speed > Kains (even faster than his reflexes).I am willing to accept Kain winning if you can prove it, as from what I have seen he is nothing to Sephiroth (Except in magical ways, he is better (cast time)).
I would like you to stop trying to downplay Clouds feat of reacting to bullets, you are clearly in denial, he only moves his sword after a bullet is shot, and he does move his sword, it is a feat and it is a great one.
Also, stop trying to say that Kains affinity over blood is affinity over everything. Blood just happens to contain cells, plasma, platelets, oxygen and other incredibly small things, just as a body happens to contain cells and other incredibly small things (and even blood).
Defintion of blood from wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn:
The fluid (red in vertebrates) that is pumped through the body by the heart and contains plasma, blood cells, and platelets; "blood carries oxygen ...
Also from what I have seen and read (from your sources) Kain seems to send his magic out in projectile form.
Edit
I forgot to add, Cloud can be stopped by Telekinesis fairly easily because he can't produce momentum without a solid object to push against first, compared to Sephiroth who can fly, so he doesn't need a solid object to push against.
Holy was destroying metoer, and the act of holies power was going to destroy the planet.
(You trying to talk about infinite power and will) I didn't say he had infinite power, I said using your logic it is immeasurable and therefore 0 = everything for Sephiroths Will, we need a way to measure it to define 'more power' in Will. E.g. Force is the physical manifestation of Sephiroths Will, just like Loz, Yazoo and Kadaj which is what I am saying. [/B]
Show me this several miles, or quote the video if youve got it in this thread as well as the time it happesn. And a lot of people can react to a bullet, whther their reaction allows them to do something to it to stop it is the question but its irrelvent here, being able to react to a bullet coming at you and actually being as quick as one are two diffrent things entirely.
Fact 3: unfortunatley the power of said force was not present when Sephiroth was holding it.
Fact 4:
Not necesserily true, he may be Jenova but that does not mean he has all the powers and abilities of it.
Fact 5:
Only in a fan fiction bucko, he only has the energy that creates matera, but not the ability to actually create the materia itself, despite having a piece of bread and an electrical outlet, he still does not have a toaster.
Fact 6: Zero in comparison to most other fictonal characters debated in this forum.
Fact 7:
Assuming that was a teleport, we dont actually know how long it took him to start teleporting, for all you know he had been sitting on the other side of his teleport casting the spell for 5 seconds or w/e before he actually teleported.
1. Kains TK has actually held physical objects both human sized and miniscule (blood cells), Sephiroths "willpower" has held Holy which has unkown force and mass at the point of him actually holding it and Cloud and co.
2. Kain is pretty much immune in this area, hes had Raziels high strength as pointed out in my Bio do nothing to his body and can survive with major damage to his form. Not ot mention he wouldnt have to take a hit anyway.
3. From shown sources Sephiroth is a faster sword wielder, but has no selection of major skills that put him above kains, their still simple sword attacks I have seen from both, although in factual information, Kain has lived and used with a sword for thousands, if not tens of thousands of years, so he is undoubtably the more experianced and therefore the better. Although to be fair, one strike of Kains sword would leave Sephiroth on the ground and disarmed.
4. Sephiroth is superior by feats
5. Sephiroth but not by much, Kain has shown speeds over fair distances of nigh instant movement and to be fair Sephiroths speed will be nullified because of Kains time powers.
6. Kains vast powers and abilities mean that he will be untouchable, his teleportion is near instant with the dimention reaver and he could make massive distance between him and his foes meaning none of them could assail him if he does not want them to, his mist form means physical attacks are almost useless and his repel shield makes almost everything useless. Taing into account with a gesture or a hand movement he could have both Cloud and sephiroth defeated, they cant win.
The only way Sephiroth has more magic is if Kain allows him to, other than that, Kain as a balance guardian can regulate magic, he wouldnt allow Sephiroth to use magic even if he just sat and allowed whatever long cast time is required.
If he can move all those cells which he would without doubt have to then he can do the same to other cells, theres no logic or reasoning why he could not use his TK to do the same to Sephiroths cells as he does to blood.
Only in gameplay mechanic, infact most of his spells have no projectile such as blood shower, spirit death. The only major one that has a projectile in game mechanics is the time bolt. But he doesnt need that even if we were using gameplay mechanics because he could use his time reaver to have a slowing effect and then follow up with his time bolt.
Meteor was going to destroy the planet, can you show me it saying Holy could destroy the planet.