Dooku was clearly a better combatant than Maul. If you watch the fights between Qui-Gon/Obi versus Maul, and compare it with Obi/Anakin in AotC (Or even RotS), you can see how easily he manipulates the fight, whereas Maul is constantly giving ground, and receives a few shrewd blows. Maul also is nearly overcome by an angered Obi-Wan, whereas in a similar situation, Dooku easily manhandles an enraged Anakin in AotC.
So I'd say the comparison is inaccurate.
AotC Anakin is a chump compared to any Jedi Masters, and Qui-Gon was pretty damn good. While he was beaten by Maul, he was a master of the very fighting style Anakin was using as of AotC, and he was a peer of Mace Windu. So more likely than not, he wins.
Qui-gon would PWN anakin. no doubt.
anakin barely stood against dooku (like most have said) before geting his arm severed like a *****.
Qui-gon, however, went one-on-one with a master of a duel bladed lightsaber, and faired well, and it took maul a quick knock to confuse qui-gon...
anakin was more agressive when he went against dooku on geonosis, qui-gon was calm and collective when he faced maul in full-heat-combat on naboo and tatooine...
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Dooku was clearly a better combatant than Maul. If you watch the fights between Qui-Gon/Obi versus Maul, and compare it with Obi/Anakin in AotC (Or even RotS), you can see how easily he manipulates the fight, whereas Maul is constantly giving ground, and receives a few shrewd blows. Maul also is nearly overcome by an angered Obi-Wan, whereas in a similar situation, Dooku easily manhandles an enraged Anakin in AotC.So I'd say the comparison is inaccurate.
AotC Anakin is a chump compared to any Jedi Masters, and Qui-Gon was pretty damn good. While he was beaten by Maul, he was a master of the very fighting style Anakin was using as of AotC, and he was a peer of Mace Windu. So more likely than not, he wins.
This guy sure knows what he's talking about.
Originally posted by CadoAngelus
If Qui-Gon parred on level with Windu, why would I have any other reason to believe he wasn't equal or greater then Dooku.Though, just to clear things up, i wasn't basing my arguement on that assumption.
Well, because of the obvious differences each party has in experience, personal behaviors, and fighting stylistic differences, I don't see how you could accurately compare them A > B, A = C, therefore C > B. Does that make logical sense?
Or to put it another way, Mace beats Sidious and Yoda loses to Sidious, therefore Mace beats Yoda and Dooku and Sidious, and then goes on to have sex with Padme.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Dooku was clearly a better combatant than Maul.If you watch the fights between Qui-Gon/Obi versus Maul, and compare it with Obi/Anakin in AotC (Or even RotS), you can see how easily he manipulates the fight, whereas Maul is constantly giving ground, and receives a few shrewd blows.
Giving ground doesn't necessarily mean you're not in control. Kenobi proves that in RotS. According to both the movie and novelization, Maul was manhandling both of them with kicks, parries, etc. He was quite clearly controlling the fight.
That was Maul's strategy, to lead them where he wanted. Remember, he isn't mentally deficit just because he doesn't talk much. He had more than enough time to analyze the area before launching his assault, which any warrior with half a brain would do if they knew a thing about planning (Maul certainly does).
Maul also is nearly overcome by an angered Obi-Wan, whereas in a similar situation, Dooku easily manhandles an enraged Anakin in AotC.
It wasn't a similar situation in the least bit, Janus. Dooku wasn't injured prior to fighting, Maul was; his ankle had sustained damage in a battle with Tusken Raiders when he was on Tatooine.
Dooku hadn't fought two completely fresh Jedi either. Anakin and Obi-Wan had just battled through the Geonosian arena and the Confederacy's surprise attack, which would've taken a lot out of them. Maul basically had to fight two times before his final bout with Kenobi - the Jedi team and then a one-on-one with a revitalized Qui-Gon.
Maul could have replicated Dooku's feat in his situation had he all the advantages Dooku had, including only fighting one-on-one battles.
/agree with the rest.
Giving ground doesn't necessarily mean you're not in control. Kenobi proves that in RotS. According to both the movie and novelization, Maul was manhandling both of them with kicks, parries, etc. He was quite clearly controlling the fight.
But you're comparing apples and oranges in that case. Kenobi's style is exclusively defensive. He must give ground since his fighting style cannot capitalize on a strong offense. Maul's style is Juyo, and since it is most certainly not paraded as a defensive fighting style, I have to wonder at why Maul is supposively a master at it.
"Predictably, he seeks to unbalance you with his erratic attacks. His technique is called Juyo, the most chaotic of the lightsaber forms. This form sacrifices much to bolster offense, leaving one exposed to attack by the Force." - Kreia.
Emphasis mine.
Millennia prior to the Galactic Civil War, Juyo was ascribed the moniker of the "Ferocity form" due to its aggressive nature. Its use was stated as being best against a single formidable opponent.
Again, it's supposed to be aggressive and offensive. But Maul was neither when he was confronted with both Jedi. He had to give ground so he could take one down separately. When confronted with both, he cannot make any headway, but when alone, he can quickly demolish them. It's the weakness of his fighting form.
In comparison, Dooku is not hampered by fighting both. He doesn't actively give ground, and if anything he does rather well using their styles against them, letting their meshing limit their attacks and then capitalizing on their mistakes. If the situations were reversed, then Dooku would be the one easily handling Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon (Especially since he trained the latter) while Maul would still be giving ground before Obi and Anakin since his strength lies in fighting one opponent viciously.
However, since Juyo does require higher levels of learning in multiple lightsaber forms, it makes me wonder why Maul's fighting style is so one-dimensional. So while I am presenting a viewpoint here that Maul only really excels at one opponent, realistically according to Juyo's creators (In the Fightsaber article) and Cin Drallig, Maul should be skilled enough to do better than what he did. Either that, or he just didn't feel the need to switch it up in the fight, preferring to toy with the Jedi until he could destroy one alone. I can't fault that for being in-character. I could argue that Maul is capable of performing better based on the requirements of his own fighting style which he is supposively a master of, but that he has never shown us that his mastery is enough to overcome a novice Ataru user and a practiced Ataru user. That's not a huge accomplishment in his favor, ankle or no.
That was Maul's strategy, to lead them where he wanted. Remember, he isn't mentally deficit just because he doesn't talk much. He had more than enough time to analyze the area before launching his assault, which any warrior with half a brain would do if they knew a thing about planning (Maul certainly does).
Agreed, Maul was a good combatant. I don't mean to demean him so much. But his showings in-movie were rather low when you put it into perspective. Dooku manhandles two similar opponents twice in the series without having to separate them each time.
It wasn't a similar situation in the least bit, Janus. Dooku wasn't injured prior to fighting, Maul was; his ankle had sustained damage in a battle with Tusken Raiders when he was on Tatooine.
So Maul's ankle made him a substandard fighter against an enraged padawan? I'd be willing to chalk some of his initial losses up to his arrogance and not apply such a blanket statement about the situation, but the reality is that Maul was quickly overcome by an amateur whereas Dooku disabled padawan Anakin and then severed his arm without anything so messy as being kicked on his ass and his lightsaber being chopped in half.
The point is that Maul's only real canon showings which are somehow excused because of a bad ankle, are his ONLY real canon showings. Maul's defense is not airtight like Count Dooku's was during similar battles. Dooku held off Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin duo twice, and bested Mace earlier in his career. Maul destroyed what's-his-face the EU-only Jedi Master of uberness and Qui-Gon Jinn, while getting curbstomped by a pissed of Ewan MacGregor.
If I have to compare them side-by-side, then my vote goes to Dooku as being the clear "better" of the two.
Dooku hadn't fought two completely fresh Jedi either. Anakin and Obi-Wan had just battled through the Geonosian arena and the Confederacy's surprise attack, which would've taken a lot out of them. Maul basically had to fight two times before his final bout with Kenobi - the Jedi team and then a one-on-one with a revitalized Qui-Gon.
I wasn't aware that his fight with Anoon had happened the same day as his fight with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. But then I haven't read the book in a couple of years. I may be mistaken.
Also, I'm not sure we could accurately argue the strain of previous activities on the Jedi. That would be arguing an unknown entity, and it's kind of silly. Yes, I could logically assume doing something like reflecting blaster bolts might make Obi-Wan and Anakin tired somewhat, but then again I think that's kind of silly. Obi-Wan has spent years perfecting a style which defends against blaster fire; how did he do that if he can't handle a five minute battle without getting winded? For that matter, how could any Jedi claim to be a worthwhile Jedi if light battle activity saps their strength enough to be noticed? Did not Yoda say a Jedi's strength flows from the Force? I don't remember him saying "Luke, don't you go messing around with blaster bolts, or you might be too tired to beat Vader."
I wasn't aware that his fight with Anoon had happened the same day as his fight with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. But then I haven't read the book in a couple of years. I may be mistaken.
basically had to fight two times before his final bout with Kenobi - the Jedi team [Jinn + Kenobi] and then a one-on-one with a revitalized Qui-Gon.[Jinn + Rest]