...
That's the worst justification I've ever seen for "revitalized". Qui-Gon sat down and cleared his mind, long enough to think about the sound of one hand clapping, and suddenly he's "revitalized"? Is that why he had his ass handed to him with ease by someone who's apparently crippled by his arthritic ankle? And while Obi-Wan was sitting there, antsy, bouncing up and down waiting for the barrier to come down, was he rested too? Are Jedi like self-perpetuating batteries that charge themselves instantly when not in use?
Or, the tl:dr version - what difference does it make? Anakin and Obi-Wan "revitalized" or "rested" while they were flying after Dooku's unicycle on the way to his little hangar. OMG, they were like nu jedi!
I was explaining what Nemesis was explaining.
Originally posted by Janus MariusDooku did it in RotS when he had literally a moment to spare.
...That's the worst justification I've ever seen for "revitalized". Qui-Gon sat down and cleared his mind, long enough to think about the sound of one hand clapping, and suddenly he's "revitalized"? Is that why he had his ass handed to him with ease by someone who's apparently crippled by his arthritic ankle? And while Obi-Wan was sitting there, antsy, bouncing up and down waiting for the barrier to come down, was he rested too? Are Jedi like self-perpetuating batteries that charge themselves instantly when not in use?
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.Seems plausible enough.He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony.
...
He pushed this aside, drawing once more upon the certain knowledge of his personal invincibility to open a channel to the Force. Power flowed into him, and the weight of his years dropped away.
I was explaining what Nemesis was explaining.
I know, I was being silly.
Dooku did it in RotS when he had literally a moment to spare.
I'd argue that he just found his focus and managed his exhaustion. Kind of like being in a fight, getting your ass kicked, and realizing that "Hey, I fight for something more important than this" and winning. Kind of like how Yoda steeled himself and turned that Sith lightning attack back on Sidious, despite being nearly bent over backwards. If we're to allow that Force users recharge whenever they have a spare minute of not fighting, you could conceivably argue that all Force users are in prime condition, and thus the idea of "exhaustion" becomes moot. Maul, too, was pacing and not fighting. For all we know, he was recharging his super duper Force battery too.
Again, I don't see why Maul needs excuses for his poor performance. That's my main concern.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
But you're comparing apples and oranges in that case. Kenobi's style is exclusively defensive. He must give ground since his fighting style cannot capitalize on a strong offense. Maul's style is Juyo, and since it is most certainly not paraded as a defensive fighting style, I have to wonder at why Maul is supposively a master at it."Predictably, he seeks to unbalance you with his erratic attacks. His technique is called Juyo, the most chaotic of the lightsaber forms. This form sacrifices much to bolster offense, leaving one exposed to attack by the Force." - Kreia.
Emphasis mine.
Millennia prior to the Galactic Civil War, Juyo was ascribed the moniker of the "Ferocity form" due to its aggressive nature. Its use was stated as being best against a single formidable opponent.
I could see your point if saber combat wasn't versatile and was solely based upon a single form's description. But it isn't. Makashi itself was said to be most tailored to single opponents, but we've seen that's not always the case with competent masters.
Your main point here is actually your main flaw - the form does not matter . Simply utilizing Soresu doesn't put one in the driver's seat of every fight. For example, a Soresu user could be giving ground, but not because he wants to (being forced) or being unable to launch an counterattack while doing such. So form is irrelevant.
Maul's going on the defensive supports him being in control if that's what he had planned. And indeed, it was. And indeed, he was in control.
What happens on Mustafar is exact same thing as Maul leading the two Jedi. Hence, there's no oranges here; just apples.
Again, it's supposed to be aggressive and offensive. But Maul was neither when he was confronted with both Jedi. He had to give ground so he could take one down separately. When confronted with both, he cannot make any headway, but when alone, he can quickly demolish them. It's the weakness of his fighting form.
"Their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate.
But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger.
His agility and dexterity allowed him to keep them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks, relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense.
So they challenged the Sith Lord quickly, and just as quickly discovered that their best efforts were not good enough[...]
They should have won this battle long ago. Against any other opponent, they would have. But the Sith Lord was battle trained and seasoned well beyond anyone they had ever encountered before. He had matched them blow for blow, and they weren't any closer to winning this fight now than they had been in the beginning." (The Phantom Menace, Ch. 23)
This guy sure knows what he's talking about.
In comparison, Dooku is not hampered by fighting both. He doesn't actively give ground, and if anything he does rather well using their styles against them, letting their meshing limit their attacks and then capitalizing on their mistakes. If the situations were reversed, then Dooku would be the one easily handling Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon (Especially since he trained the latter) while Maul would still be giving ground before Obi and Anakin since his strength lies in fighting one opponent viciously.
^ See above; there's nothing supporting the diea that his strength lied solely in one-on-one or that two-on-one fights were a problem for him. In fact, quite the contrary. Remember, he is a master of Teras Kasi, which we've seen through AMATEURS (Zan and Zu Pike) is capable of taking down handfuls of opponents at the same time. Maul incorporates Teras Kasi into his routine. His fighting style is custom, and clearly taking on two people was no problem for him as he LOVED the fact it was a two-on-one duel.
His daily warm-up exercise was to clear four of the deadliest droid models in the galaxy in under sixty seconds. Your telling me multiple opponents are a problem for him is laughable. You put far too much emphasis on things as simple as form descriptions.
But his showings in-movie were rather low when you put it into perspective.
You think so? I see it the entire other way around. In perspective, his showings were extremely high. Otherwise, he is made to look like an underpowered henchman.
So Maul's ankle made him a substandard fighter against an enraged padawan? I'd be willing to chalk some of his initial losses up to his arrogance and not apply such a blanket statement about the situation, but the reality is that Maul was quickly overcome by an amateur whereas Dooku disabled padawan Anakin and then severed his arm without anything so messy as being kicked on his ass and his lightsaber being chopped in half.
1. To answer your initial question: yes, the injury certainly played a part in the "loss", it is outright stated in the source that notes it.
2. Where have I said an injury was the only reason for his loss? It's easy to place emphasis on one point and not address the others, but that doesn't do much to advance the argument.
3. Factors in Maul's "loss" against Kenobi that absolutely do add up:
- An injured ankle.
- Fighting two people at once beforehand, hence having to expend much more energy.
- Fighting one of the greatest duelist in the Order's history one-on-one beforehand, hence having to expend much more energy.
- Caught off guard by Kenobi drawing off his emotions (tapping into the dark side).
Kenobi's burst of rage, according to the movie, script & novel, was a temporary advantage until Maul regained his composure. Ignoring all of that, I could just point out that the battle was complete and utter PIS, because it was.
The point is that Maul's only real canon showings which are somehow excused because of a bad ankle, are his ONLY real canon showings. Maul's defense is not airtight like Count Dooku's was during similar battles. Dooku held off Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin duo twice, and bested Mace earlier in his career. Maul destroyed what's-his-face the EU-only Jedi Master of uberness and Qui-Gon Jinn, while getting curbstomped by a pissed of Ewan MacGregor.If I have to compare them side-by-side, then my vote goes to Dooku as being the clear "better" of the two.
Totally irrelevant. I wasn't disputing whether or not he's more powerful, only that your reasoning for such makes zero sense, because:
Originally posted by Advent
He was quite clearly controlling the fight.
meaning that your analysis of the duel was wrong,
and
Originally posted by Advent
It wasn't a similar situation in the least bit, Janus.
meaning that the duel in AotC versus the TPM duel differ on several levels, thus they cannot be compared as you tried to do.
I wasn't aware that his fight with Anoon had happened the same day as his fight with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. But then I haven't read the book in a couple of years. I may be mistaken.
Originally posted by Eminence
...They mean the Naboo fight. Maul fights Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan together, then everyone gets separated, then Maul fights a revitalized Qui-Gon [meditation], kills him, and fights and disarms a sort of rested [?] and very ticked off Obi-Wan.
Also, I'm not sure we could accurately argue the strain of previous activities on the Jedi. That would be arguing an unknown entity, and it's kind of silly. Yes, I could logically assume doing something like reflecting blaster bolts might make Obi-Wan and Anakin tired somewhat, but then again I think that's kind of silly. Obi-Wan has spent years perfecting a style which defends against blaster fire; how did he do that if he can't handle a five minute battle without getting winded? For that matter, how could any Jedi claim to be a worthwhile Jedi if light battle activity saps their strength enough to be noticed? Did not Yoda say a Jedi's strength flows from the Force? I don't remember him saying "Luke, don't you go messing around with blaster bolts, or you might be too tired to beat Vader." [/B]
Yeah, just a few [million] blaster bolts, Janus...watch the movie please.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
...That's the worst justification I've ever seen for "revitalized". Qui-Gon sat down and cleared his mind, long enough to think about the sound of one hand clapping, and suddenly he's "revitalized"? Is that why he had his ass handed to him with ease by someone who's apparently crippled by his arthritic ankle? And while Obi-Wan was sitting there, antsy, bouncing up and down waiting for the barrier to come down, was he rested too? Are Jedi like self-perpetuating batteries that charge themselves instantly when not in use?
Or, the tl:dr version - what difference does it make? Anakin and Obi-Wan "revitalized" or "rested" while they were flying after Dooku's unicycle on the way to his little hangar. OMG, they were like nu jedi!
Novel: "He had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied."
Furthermore, the script also says that Qui-Gon was fighting with 'a ferocity not seen before'.
Qui Gon = Master
Anakin = Padawan
Of course, rank isn't only based on fighting prowess; otherwise Anakin would've been a master by ROTS, but the fact that Qui Gon could stalemate Mace means something. Which is wierd...how come Qui Gon can stalemate one of the greatest Jedi ever but gets beaten by a sith apprentice even 2 vs 1?
And oh yeah...Dooku didn't fight both of them a once in AOTC, he zapped Anakin, pwned Obi Wan, surprisingly seemed to struggle (a bit) with Anakin, and then fights Yoda. But not at once.
Advent, kudos to you for bringing some meat to the table. Rest assured I'm not ignoring you, but that will take some time to respond to, and I'm not able to find my TPM DVD at the moment (WHich is what I get for potentially loaning it out). PM me if I don't reply in a few days, as I have a habit of getting sidetracked.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Advent, kudos to you for bringing some meat to the table. Rest assured I'm not ignoring you, but that will take some time to respond to, and I'm not able to find my TPM DVD at the moment (WHich is what I get for potentially loaning it out). PM me if I don't reply in a few days, as I have a habit of getting sidetracked.
'Tis okay, chances are there won't be another Advent sighting for quite some time anyways. 😛
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Qui Gon = MasterAnakin = Padawan
Of course, rank isn't only based on fighting prowess; otherwise Anakin would've been a master by ROTS, but the fact that Qui Gon could stalemate Mace means something. Which is wierd...how come Qui Gon can stalemate one of the greatest Jedi ever but gets beaten by a sith apprentice even 2 vs 1?
And oh yeah...Dooku didn't fight both of them a once in AOTC, he zapped Anakin, pwned Obi Wan, surprisingly seemed to struggle (a bit) with Anakin, and then fights Yoda. But not at once.
Dooku didn't even make a whole fight duelling Anakin and Obi-Wan i RotS, he duelled them both for about 2mins and then force pushed Obi-Wan across the room...
no idea why he did that, but that just tells me that in order to make it easier for himself he used his "superior" force skills to make up for his naff saber skill against two jedi...
I could see your point if saber combat wasn't versatile and was solely based upon a single form's description. But it isn't. Makashi itself was said to be most tailored to single opponents, but we've seen that's not always the case with competent masters.Your main point here is actually your main flaw - the form does not matter . Simply utilizing Soresu doesn't put one in the driver's seat of every fight. For example, a Soresu user could be giving ground, but not because he wants to (being forced) or being unable to launch an counterattack while doing such. So form is irrelevant.
Maul's going on the defensive supports him being in control if that's what he had planned. And indeed, it was. And indeed, he was in control.
What happens on Mustafar is exact same thing as Maul leading the two Jedi. Hence, there's no oranges here; just apples.
Makashi is stated to be tailored towards single opponents according to KotOR lore which is reflected in its game mechanics. Prior to this, there is no mention of such by the Fightsaber article, which is the effective ground work for the lightsaber styles based on canon precedents.
The part of the revised, "modernized" Fightsaber article that was from the original states simply this:
A refinement of blade-against-blade combat, Form II has produced some of the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen. By the time of Star Wars saga, Form II had pretty much become an archaic curiosity, as modern Jedi had not faced lightsaber-wielding foes in over a thousand years.
So the idea of Makashi being dumbed down to simply a "single person dueling form, bad against blaster bolts" is a KotOR construct and one of the worst mind-bugs in the SW EU universe. We should probably try and avoid those definitions, including my previous post, since they're so contradictory and false. Back to Makashi, however... Its definition, however, argues that it's the best at fighting blade-to-blade by its very nature. The idea behind the form is to overcome lightsaber combatants, meaning it was not generated to cover for a given weakness but instead capitalize on another's.
To compare it with Juyo:
Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate discipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form VI. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since the focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. As such, in the wrong hands, Form VII could easily become a gateway to dark side aggression and passions. It is also known as the Way of the Vornskr or the Ferocity Form.
It's difficult to remember which parts are embellished or modified from this particular description, but most of it seems accurate enough. The key trait is apparently unpredictability and bold movements, among an emotional well which fuels the Force.
Arguing "form doesn't matter" totally neglects the mindset behind each form itself. If they didn't matter, or they were a connected series of parries, jumps, and swings, they could not be argued to be fighting philosophies, which their descriptions point out. Juyo, for example, is highly emotional but stresses control and master of other philosophies in order to give it diversity. This differs from Niman, which pays lip service to a few styles in a short time to give importance to the real idea behind that form - to be a non-martial Jedi in function. If you were to simply narrow them down to skills, Niman and Juyo would be indistinguishable from an outsider if there was no mental component behind them. They both use the same tools, do they not?
Now, to tie this into your assertion about Maul driving the fight; this is not always the case. It's clear from watching the video (Which I've had on loop while typing this up) that he attempts to separate them at any given opportunity, and that he cannot quickly and easily take one of them down out of the fight, nor can he easily kill one. Even when Obi-Wan is effectively kicked down to another walkway and out of the fight, Maul continues to give ground to Qui-Gon for another couple of minutes before finally capitalizing on his opening when he decides to go offensive. I'll step out of the argument here for a second and assert that Maul isn't using Juyo at all in this case. He isn't relying on an emotional well to use bold, direct movements to overwhelm his opponents; he's turtling and positioning them until he can finally render a decisive blow. This isn't too far from the Soresu tree in terms of fighting philosophy. The main difference between how he operates and how Dooku operates is that the latter can give very little ground and manage his opponents with ease, whereas Maul is constantly fighting to keep himself from being boxed in, kicked, backhanded, etc. Maul only controls the fight when he changes his attitude and presses the advantage against a singular opponent. Based on his performance, he is not skilled or confident enough to defeat two capable Jedi in the same manner. Dooku easily manages his opponents and puts them out of the fight when he's good and ready. He controls the pacing, not the Jedi.
I wouldn't exactly compare Musfatar and the Duel of Fates either since it doesn't do Maul any favors. Obi-Wan acted very similarly, barely able to contain the pacing of the fight, giving ground and working hard to maintain his neck, whereas Dooku never allows himself to be put in that kind of position. His footwork, pacing, and ability to deflect attacks from almost any angle make him the superior duelist to both.
"Their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate.But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger.
His agility and dexterity allowed him to keep them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks, relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense.
So they challenged the Sith Lord quickly, and just as quickly discovered that their best efforts were not good enough[...]
They should have won this battle long ago. Against any other opponent, they would have. But the Sith Lord was battle trained and seasoned well beyond anyone they had ever encountered before. He had matched them blow for blow, and they weren't any closer to winning this fight now than they had been in the beginning." (The Phantom Menace, Ch. 23)
This guy sure knows what he's talking about.
I don't see why folks here at KMC always point me towards novelization passages, which are clearly defined in the canon statements issued by LucasArts as "interpretations" and containing material by GL which may either be changed or embellished. I'm comparing the footage of the actual fights, which makes more sense. What you're suggesting here is that we rely on descriptions by third parties, kind of like I judge Mohammed Ali versus Mike Tyson solely by reading their autobiographies, or reading newspaper descriptions of their fights. It's not the same.
I've watched the video many times, and it's apparent that Maul barely controls the defensive posture he's set up for himself. Part of him is giving ground to maintain his advantage, and part of him is losing ground because he cannot push forward. Again, even when Obi-Wan is removed from the equation and the footing is equal to both, Maul is initially unable to push the advantage, working defense almost up until the moment he overcomes Qui-Gon Jinn. He's not overwhelming his opponents, period. He's playing close to the chest until they make a fatal mistake, but like Obi-Wan, it's entirely too close. He's not leagues above his opponents and leading the whole fight like Dooku. A superior fighter controls the terms of the engagement, he doesn't have to fight to keep himself above water.
^ See above; there's nothing supporting the diea that his strength lied solely in one-on-one or that two-on-one fights were a problem for him. In fact, quite the contrary. Remember, he is a master of Teras Kasi, which we've seen through AMATEURS (Zan and Zu Pike) is capable of taking down handfuls of opponents at the same time. Maul incorporates Teras Kasi into his routine. His fighting style is custom, and clearly taking on two people was no problem for him as he LOVED the fact it was a two-on-one duel.His daily warm-up exercise was to clear four of the deadliest droid models in the galaxy in under sixty seconds. Your telling me multiple opponents are a problem for him is laughable. You put far too much emphasis on things as simple as form descriptions.
Teras Kasi, though, is mostly an unarmed discipline. While it's true that he incorporates some of the moves into his lightsaber fighting, I don't see how the unarmed works of others has any bearing on this fight. Maul did not demolish Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan within seconds. He did not easily fend of their attacks, and nor was he able to decisively separate them (He had the benefit of the energy walls, or else he would have been forced to engage both Jedi again). In comparison, Dooku pretty much puts people out of the fight when he's done with them. Obi-Wan was thrown out more times then I can count, and one benefit Dooku has over Maul is his control of the Force can be used interchangably with his superior lightsaber fighting, which Maul has not shown in similar scenarios. Anakin, while tougher and more aggressive than Obi-Wan as of AotC, didn't actually progress against the Sith Lord and was manhandled at the Count's pacing. In RotS, when working together, Obi-Wan and Anakin were victims to his machinations. One of the most telling examples of how he controlled the fight was this:
While taking on two opponents of considerable skill, one positions at his six and another directly in front of him, he decisively broke up the engagement, KO'd one of the combatants, and threw off the balance of the second.
Here's an example of Dooku fending of a flurry of blows from Anakin and Obi-Wan, which far outshines the TPM barrage Maul barely weathered. The casual way in which he controls the blades, even working them up higher and holding them off, shows his saber skill is far superior to his opponents. Even when they pressed the Count, he made sure they earned very little ground and even less of a practical advantage, being no better than they were before:
And here's him defending against an attack by Anakin in AotC, only to turn the momentum against Skywalker and have the Jedi backpedal:
And again, since when are droids akin to Force-sensitive lightsaber using opponents? It's been awhile since I read the book, but I don't think the comparisons are accurate.
1. To answer your initial question: yes, the injury certainly played a part in the "loss", it is outright stated in the source that notes it.
I question the legitimacy of this "injury" if it's not in the script of TPM, I don't see it being legit. This would be like me throwing in some EU flubber that Dooku was suffering from arthritis and gout, and thus Anakin overcame him. I don't think making excuses outside of proper canon really does anything to show Maul is a comparable fighter as Dooku. If anything, it's kind of sad that he has to get a whole book written about him that's topped off with an excuse for his defeat. Almost like fanboys couldn't accept that he wasn't the best or something.
2. Where have I said an injury was the only reason for his loss? It's easy to place emphasis on one point and not address the others, but that doesn't do much to advance the argument.
You haven't, but seeing as up until this point the injury is the only concrete reason you have for his apparent lack of "overwhelming" his opponents and deciding the pacing of the fight (Besides from an unsupported assertion that Maul was indeed pacing the fight, despite the fact that he could not bring it to conclusion for several minutes and even then he was fortunate that the surroundings assisted him in separating the Jedi so that he wouldn't be forced to fight them again. Maul decided nothing in the fight, simply working hard to maintain a pacing which profited him in the end, but only after a great length of time. This is comparable with Obi-Wan's pyrrhic victory in RotS.
3. Factors in Maul's "loss" against Kenobi that absolutely do add up:- An injured ankle.
- Fighting two people at once beforehand, hence having to expend much more energy.
- Fighting one of the greatest duelist in the Order's history one-on-one beforehand, hence having to expend much more energy.
- Caught off guard by Kenobi drawing off his emotions (tapping into the dark side).Kenobi's burst of rage, according to the movie, script & novel, was a temporary advantage until Maul regained his composure.
A lot of this is EU excuses or half-substantiated ideas of why Maul didn't win. PIS is obviously a factor, IMO, so I agree with your final statement. And I wish Maul hadn't been showcased so poorly, or at least they had better explained why he was unable to overcome the Jedi so easily. I'm a Ray Park fan, and I enjoyed the fight, but it doesn't make Maul top showings with all its glory. Looking at the original source material (The movie fight) and analyzing it based on what it really is, I can conclude that Maul was never totally in control of the fight until he had Qui-Gon alone in the generator room. At that point, he could exploit his opponents inadequate defense with a few swift movements. But he was unable to make that opportunity for himself through use of arms or the Force before this point, even when Obi-Wan was conveniently out of the way for a few seconds, so I'm forced to conclude that either he couldn't, or he wouldn't. Neither of which make your case for you.
meaning that your analysis of the duel was wrong,
No, it's not. You haven't substantiated that Maul was controlling the fight, you've just repeatedly asserted it and then made excuses for his lowest showings. This isn't proving anything.
meaning that the duel in AotC versus the TPM duel differ on several levels, thus they cannot be compared as you tried to do.
After rewatching the AotC battle (I have it on VHS, so I had to dig out the tape player), I concede that the comparison was inaccurate. Dooku did indeed manage both Jedi, but it wasn't much of a saber fight. Then again, I could put in my favor that Dooku isn't solely reliant on his fighting ability to manipulate a fight, but can use the Force with a scope and skill on par with the greater Force users of the movie series (Yoda and Sidious are the only ones who consistently have higher showings) that it creates opportunities for him that Maul hasn't shown the capability or inclination to use himself. So if you were to match them up as combatants, Dooku is clearly superior, because he can and will create more opportunities for himself, and has shown to tangle with higher combatants with more ease, and can control the pacing of this fights by virtue of his skills.
Novel: "He had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied."Furthermore, the script also says that Qui-Gon was fighting with 'a ferocity not seen before'.
Again, novelizations are interpretations of the movie, not more accurate than the movie itself. After watching the fight on loop for perhaps the better part of an hour as I type this up, I deliberately rewatched the last minute or two after the meditation sequence. Qui-Gon does initially show a burst of aggression which he did not have before, for all of perhaps twenty or thirty seconds if that. Then, as the camera flicks back to show Obi-Wan's red hued face and then back again, you see Maul has almost instantly reversed the tide of aggression and is peppering Qui-Gon with quick, short attacks which the Jedi master is sluggish to respond to, and then in a few seconds it's over.
I don't see Qui-Gon's "refresher" as being important to the battle, unless you're trying to rationalize something else. A large majority of the flaw I see with Maul's fighting occurrs before this scene, and afterwards if anything, he seems to do better once he knows he can fight the Jedi on his terms. Before this, he is unable to dictate the engagement, and this makes him appear weaker than you claim he is as a fighter.
So final words: if you intend to argue the battles of the movies with me, please try something other than novelization quoting and rampant assertions. I'm using the source material here, as you should as well. You wouldn't argue the events of KotOR by reading the strategy guide, nor would you argue the World Playoffs by reading an almanac. Don't argue movie fight scenes with filler from a novelization; it doesn't do anything for your point.
Originally posted by Anon E. Mous
Qui-Gon completely PWNS AotC Anakin.Many people have posted reasons why, including: Qui-Gon=Mace, Mace>AotC Anakin, so Qui-gon>Anakin(I apologize for ABC).
Beyond that it is said that when Mace and Qui-Gon dueled it ended in a stalemate, that does not mean they are equal to each other. Heck they are sparing not dueling and that is a major diffrence.