Sorry for my late replies. I had a little bit of work to do during the last two weeks and I didn't want to post, before having the time to come up with one reply for anyone belonging to the dynamic trio. Let's start with my very special friend Lightsnake:
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm gonna be REALLY generous here and assume you aren't remembering it right.[...]
In summary? You are full of shit.
Oh yes. And now let's have a look what happens after this, oh genius:
Night held the Jedi Temple.
On its rooftop landing deck, thin yellow light spilled in a stretching
rectangle through a shuttle's hatchway, reflecting upward onto the faces of three Jedi Masters.
[...]
Clouds had swept in with the twilight, and now a thin drizzling rain
began to fall. The approaching Master walked with his shaven head lowered, his hands tucked within his sleeves.
[...]
Mace Windu turned a grim stare upon the High Council Tower, squinting against the thickening rain. His hands withdrew from his sleeves. One of them held his lightsaber. "He has done his duty, Masters. Now we shall do ours." He walked between them into the shuttle.
In short: You're a stubborn, fanboyish idiot, an illiterate and too freaking stupid to grasp easy concepts. To make it clear for anybody with an IQ over 30 (which might exclude yourself, Lightsnake):
Novel: Anakin comes stumbling into the command center of the temple and can't even talk. Windu figures out who the Sith Lord is. He then sents Anakin to the Council Tower and - still in the command center - calls Yoda again as he did just before (which was the scene I was referring to). After this, he walks from the command center to the other Jedi, that are waiting in the hangar and they fly to Sidious office.
Movie = Higher level canon: Mace is not in the command center but the four Jedi have already gathered in the hangar (which happens after the entire talking in the novel) when Anakin tells Windu who the Sith Lord is. After this, Mace doesn't walk into the command center to speak to Yoda again - as it does happen in the novel - he just moves into the gunboat and the four Jedi move directly to Sidious office.
Let me make this clear: Unless you want to tell me, that Mace beamed himself from the gunboat into the command center and back into Sidious office - there was no talk with Yoda happening after Anakin revealed who the Sith Lord is. I hope this fact has arrived in the primordial soup in which you mental protozoon dwell. And, on a sidenote: In the talk happening between Mace and Yoda, Yoda tries to convince Mace that it would be better to sent Anakin, instead of taking the trio with him. So - did he bring the best to do the job, especially when mentioning himself that Obi-Wan and Yoda himself would be the better choice? I don't think so.
I love how you just ignore bad choreography when it suits you-like when making the argument on Mace vs. Palpatine, but won't extend it to two seconds prior. Tell me, how DO you rectify this with them being high council members, battle hardened veterans, two of whom has taken on and bested high level fighters?
Bad choreography? Is the "It's treason then" line that Sidious utters after revealing his lightsaber part of the choreography? The Jedi simply don't bother to react.
And I don't have to "rectify" anything here, Lightsnake. It's your idea that the trio is, literally, among the best the Jedi Order has to offer in his entire history. So you better come up with an explanation why they just stand and watch how the Sith Lord in front of them draws his weapon, accuses them of treason, ignites his lightsaber, jumps at them, performs a slow-ass stabbing motion and kills two of them who don't show any reaction. And a hint: "Bad choreography" doesn't count as explanation, because there isn't any choreography happening in this scene - because nobody, except Sidious, moves.
Apparently they, plain and simply, SUCK in comparison to Sidious, which means that they can't be the orders finest. You can either take that explanation, or the one from the novel (which is generous on my side, given that the novel is the lower level canon). In the novel, Sidious distracts Tiin, who lowers his weapon and then jumps Tiin and Kolar with a previously concealed lightsaber, surprising Kolar and taking Tiin off-guard.
Does it matter? No. Because either Sidious butchered some people that were nothing but cannon fodder (from his point of view) or he took some of the orders best with dirty tricks. It doesn't matter to me, because both versions contradict your opinion(?) that he simply butchered some of the best based on his lightsaber skill.
And 'with the exception of Lucas?' Yeah, not being Mace or Yoda means you just suck. Not being the two greatest Jedi duelists in history? You're nothing, you're dirt. Pathetic.
Strange. I've already mentioned that their are more shades of skill then "godlike" and "noob" - not for the great Lightsnake though. 🙄 Not being on - or even close to - Mace or Yoda, simply means, that you can't be "one of the best ever". Is that a thought easy enough for you to understand?
Point out where GL ever says "Agen, Saesee and Kit are horrible fighters." and not your flawed, biased, ****ed up interpretations of what goes on in the movies because you can't admit you're wrong
After reading that, I'm fighting the desire to look into your ear to see if I can spot daylight coming the other way. My interpretation of the movies is neither flawed, nor biased. I'm not even offering an interpretation. I'm just stating what happens on screen: They are standing there and get cut down. It's like target practice. That you can't live with that is not my problem.
Oh, so are Kressh and Sadow weak? I mean, if they're just canon fodder to the best of their time, they must suck, right?
Is the point reaching you or are you too pigheaded for it?
Do you think that Ragnos could cut down Kressh, Sadow and (let's say) Simus in his prime in the matter of seconds. And would they just let it happen without any reaction because Ragnos would be to fast? And, if that should have happened, would you support the idea that Kressh, Sadow and Simus could still belong to the "best Sith Lords ever in combat" department, putting them on one pedestal with the same guy that butchered them all in the matter of seconds? Is my point reaching you, Lightsnake - or are you to pigheaded for it?
That aside: Nice redherring. If you could focus on constructing an argument, there would at least be a reason to you to hit the reply button - besides the +1 to your post count.
Your calling them CANON FODDER implies as much. Can you even read your posts, you hypocritical idiot?
Cannon Fodder in comparison to the best, Lightsnake. Can you even read my post? And this is proven due to the fact that Sidious butchers them with apparent ease (in the movie). So, from the perspective of Sidious, they are just cannon fodder - are they not? So they are cannon fodder from the perspective of one that is on one level with some of the best swordsman ever (Mace and Yoda). Which means that the trio can not belong to the elite of duelling because they are an entire league below the people that belong on that pedestal. Otherwise their would be no way for Sidious to cut three of them down within seconds. Is that clear now or do you need a freaking picture?
LIAR.
You, sir? ARE. A. LIAR. Here me? **** being nice, here's a bit of the scene preceding it and the one right after:**** being charitable here. You're wrong or you're lying, everyone can see it and right now? I opt for the latter. So fess up and admit you're wrong here.
See above. And sorry. Your lowbrow trailer trash language doesn't impress me, Lightsnake. Why? Because I don't give a flying ducky about the thoughts of uneducated punks like yourself, while you get a heart-attack if I toss some insult in your direction. Not the best position to start a flame war from, eh?
Oh, look, the pathetic brat is whinging about how his interpretation is so right. Hm, sorry, Nai, narrator perspective, kindly shut up now. Not that you'll ever admit when your wrong. Lucas would come to your house, drag you to the walls and scream into your ear how you're wrong and you'd still find a way to weasel out of it
Hm. The "pathetic brat" has studied literature, in one of those great buildings called "universities". I know, you have never seen one from the inside, but those happen to be the buildings where you see some educated persons running around, while you're busy digging around in the garbage bags outside, searching for food.
Which might be the explanation for your inability to argue my point at all. "Narrator perspective" - lmao. You are aware of the fact that the narrator in the RotS Novel is a third person subjective narrator, right? What does that mean? Oh yes: That he has access to the thoughts and perceptions of all characters appearing in the story but nothing else. Which means that any single word in the novel spawns from the perception or thoughts of characters - which both can be flawed. You can either get that into your head or stop arguing anything related to literature here, given that this mode of narration is the most popular in written fiction nowadays.
There is no "omniscient" (as in "universal omniscient"😉 narrator there.
Evasion. Again. It shows they, added to the council in wartime, and by accomplishments, are CERTAINLY better than 'cannon fodder' than you give them credit for.
Still love how Obi-wan= dead wrong
But Depa>All because Mace thinks so.
Hypocrite
I love your uneducated view on the world. Everything is black or white (or "some of the best" or "noob"😉. The moon is made of cheese and, wow, Nai must be a hypocrite. Now listen, you little buggar. You're still clearly not able to grasp the concept of logic.
I will give you a free lesson (as you won't be able to pay my hourly wage, even if you save all money that you could scrounge on the street in an entire month): As a hypocrite (and the same goes for the use of double-standards) I have to define "universal" laws and then don't adhere to them myself. My universal law is "characters can be wrong" - so in my world, you don't have to listen to everything that characters say. Your universal law seems to be "characters have to be right". I utilize this little fact by tossing character quotes at you - since you can't contradict them without being a hypocrite. I, however, are not bound by the rules you make for yourself. So I can question every character statement - even those I toss at you. I'm really sorry.
See...this is why I'm the smart guy here, and you are on the lower end of the food chain.
And what does it mean that they were added to the Council during war time, with the exception that they were replacing people, apparently better suited for the Council position, who died during the battles [which includes epitomes of power like Colemen Trebor - lmao]? Nothing. That's right, Lightsnake. And why? Because people weren't elected to the Council based on skill - a fact established in the movies and the EU rather often [see Dooku, Qui-Gon, Anakin for details].
Yeha, it's the databank, it's factual laid out information and not from anyone's perspective. It's canon info about Star Wars. You can shut up now and stop dancing around when your points are crushed into the dirt.
It's a compilation of information gathered from other sources, Lightsnake. Therefore, it can't be used as a source - especially not to prove the validity of other sources. That's like quoting a Wikipedia article about a certain book, which quotes said book and then state "See. The book is right. Wikipedia says exactly the same". That should be understandable. But apparently it isn't. At least not for you, the guy who has the literature interpretation skills of a dead starfish.
Yeah, three high council members constantly lauded by sources and their peers are totally, completely and utterly complete scrubs, despite being named by the databank as three of the Jedi's strongest warriors. You are a God of self denial and a hypocritical joke of a moron to boot. If anyone pulled this shit on the ancient Sith back in the day you'd have screamed at them until you were blue in the face. Oh, wait, you did. Did you ever extend this to "every Sith is powerful! This means NOTHING!" Crap when talking about character you fanboy over?
You can toss poop on every SW character you can imagine and watch me laughing, since I don't give a crap about fictional persons in a fictional universe - unlike you. So feel free to hold yourself up to ridicule.
And, urm: Anybody trying what on the ancient Sith? Litering the place with straw man attempts because not being able to grasp a simple argument - like yourself? Oh well...I remember we had your uneducated ramblings going on at that point in time, which, of course, weren't even worth noticing and just answered if somebody needed a good laugh. That Gideon shoved his head right up your ass also didn't make it any better - it just turned the previous cavemen-like "Ugah Ugah Ugah" into the female-ish high-pitched "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE", without any change on the level of annoyance. That's why some people didn't find it entertaining any longer and left. *shrug*
And I wouldn't have yelled at anybody. Remember: You are the one that flies into a fury here because of special feelings towards wrinkled fictional characters (male ones, as I may add). I just wanted to point that out once more, so that coming generations of KMC members can see how perverted pathetic you are.
Still applies to Agen and like it or not, they were three of the best around and much better than you'd give them credit for, which has always been the argument here. Which Gideon supplied with numerous sources
No, Lightsnake. The argument was if they are "some of the best" that "the order has ever produced". And Gideon supplied sources for them being on that level where exactly? They aren't, let's say, Dooku, who smokes Jedi Masters for fun or - well - Mace or Yoda. I don't see one source to put them on that pedestal - or saw one feat that would do the job. Save for the statement in the RotS novel, which means: Kenobi's thoughts. We can go on with arguing in circles if you like...It goes round and round and round and round and...
Obviously, they think they can handle it, then he's on them and they're dead. Given we know they are not to the high, high tier Mace, Yoda and Palpatine occupy, YOUR POINT? Are you going to squeal at Nebaris again how Mace and Palpatine fighting slowly doesn't invalidate their abilities while you'll not apply this to the same ****ing scene?
My point is that they are not on the high tier of Mace and Yoda aka "some of the best the order ever produced". Yes. And since you seem to agree with me, I wonder what the hell you are arguing here. Did you want to beat the world-record of the greatest amount of pointless posts ever to be written down in a KMC subforum? You're on a good way, I'd say.
Or MAYBE the choreography was just bad and he was on them faster than they could react. Gonna argue Mace sucks? No? THEN WHY THE **** IS HE LETTING HIS ALLIES DIE?
Does he also speak faster then they can react, because he utters the "It's treason then" line after revealing his lightsaber. Is that also part of the choreography? Or do you want to tell me that Lucas simply messed that scene up and we should question the canon, which means - damn - that you are agreeing with me that, at certain times, even G-Canon can be questioned?! Which would, in turn, torpede the entire basis of your argument. Or, wait, is it just another attempt to justify your existance as Sidious fanboy?
I wonder - am I right or am I right? Your post simply doesn't allow any other conclusion, yet you have still hit the reply button? I'm still asking myself: W H Y ?
And Mace does react. He is the only being in the room that bothers to move when Sidious comes flying. Of course just to protect himself, instead of - I don't know - cut right through Fisto in and Kolar in order to stop the fatal strikes of Sidious? What a dick... 🙄
No, Nai, that's not the result. I think you're unclear on that you don't get to decide canon and in the end? You are wrong. You lose. Good day, sir. [/B]
No. Apparently you are the one to decide canon here. No wait, you're not. You're the throws a tantrum, littering the forum with trash talk without even having a point, unless you want to dispute the entire RotS movie, because the novel fits your oppinion better. Really. Hilarious.
And you know something? Before you shriek and ***** about ad hominen, get something through your skull:
I have tried to be civil with you time and again and each and every ****ing time you dance around like the most intentionally insulting dick you can be.. So if you're gonna whine about ad hominem? Shut it. I don't want to hear it. The moment I see a post of yours free of insults in the time you get any civility from me back. You don't get to demand civility while offering none yourself.
Oh. I'd cry, Lightsnake. But see: Insulting is not equal to "ad hominem". And I don't give a flying ducky if you are trying to be civil - or if you're attempting to insult me. The latter is quite funny, not only because I don't even feel remotely offended, no, but because you are so easy to provoke - which you are, sir. Which makes it quite entertaining for me to "dance around like the most intentionally insulting dick" until you explode again.
So, to be honest: You can express yourself in swearwords all day long, which just adds to my list of points why you suck in debates. I find that more entertaining than entering every thread I post in with a "I don't want to get involved in the argument but..." following by the next attempt to get some attention from me. Face it: Whatever you do, I don't care about it. Unless I can entertain myself by reacting - just like it happened right now and right here.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Seeing as how you constantly look retarded by calling me a troll without any evidence, and you get no support from the mods, you're the perfect definition of a troll. Thanks for making my case for me Nai.
Another funny troll post, Sexy. How about this:
We could again discuss how you are not the troll formerly known as TDTD and how you just share the same:
- first name
- AIM name
- date of birth
- university (I rofl'd)
- law school (I rofl'd)
- home city
- current locations
- religion
I mean, okay, Faunus has done it not only once but actually twice and then apparently dropped the issue out of boredom.
But what would be the point of listing those issues once again? Everybody knows who you are, David. But of course you can go on denying it, which is certainly amusing. Of course, not as amusing as your predictable reactions to you being called a "troll". Quite funny for a former member of SpecialHam.com, the community dedicated to pointless spamming, don't you think so?
Did you ever consider the possibility, that you're just here because it's easier to control a known troll than to figure out if the same troll came back with a new nickname? You are, at least, not as stupid as Nebaris. Or maybe the mods are just giving you a second chance, which anybody deserves, provided he adheres to his previous mistakes. Which you don't do. You're stuck in denial, which is rather pointless, given that nobody here believes that babble.
On a sidenote:
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You and LS are way too nice and passive about stupidity.
You are right. They are too nice and passive about stupidity, given that they are still talking to you, dipshit. We're the epitomes of generosity here and even tolerate utter failures like yourself. Isn't that nice? You can go on with the cheap entertainment now, Mr. B.
Originally posted by Gideon
But then I feel like the police officer who is telling a suspect to lower his weapon. I'm giving him a chance. If and when he doesn't, and I'm forced to shoot back, it'll be justified. I'm right and he's wrong.
I've seldomly laughed that hard, Gideon.
Your "peace offer" is a joke and the fact, that you aren't even able to notice that, shows, that you have retired (haha) to the higher spheres of self-adulation. Nontheless I will upvalue it with a reply...
Originally posted by Gideon
the problem is that we remember the time when you subscribed to the notion that Marka Ragnos was the most powerful Sith Lord/Force-user in the mythos and that Count Dooku was better than Sidious. I'm not certain if this is part of the routine or you are simply that reluctant to admit when you're wrong, but you are wrong about this.
In the fetid fleapit of Gideon's brain the projectionist of memory put on reel two. Recollection began to flicker. I wonder who you are talking about when saying "we", Gideon. Because I neither stated that Ragnos must be the most powerful Sith in the mythos, nor did I say that Dooku is better than Sidious. I argued that Sidious is not the most powerful Sith in the mythos and presented Ragnos (the ancient Sith) as alternative(s). I also said that Dooku could overcome Sidious in a duel (like Mace Windu) - is Mace Windu "better" (in the "more powerful" sense of the word) than Sidious?
So, provided that those "memories" you have, happen to be illusions produced by your own small brain - I really wonder how many people could possible share those memories with you. I might just thank you for presenting another straw man (and an appeal to majority) here, but that would be too easy, wouldn't it? I could also ask you to prove me wrong, but you would just come up with the idea that you've already done so. So I will simply declare that you are a fanboy, a poor loser and couldn't debate your way out of a box, because logic, to you, is just another five-letter-word starting with an L.
But, of course, we have something to expect from you, even though you are a fanboy, who tries to establish that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever, based on the source material - beyond doubt. We just have to ignore the words of Leland Chee, who just tells us that "there will always be room for interpretation and debate" and those of Chris Cherasi, who tells us that everything aside from the movie is nothing but "interpretation" - more or less true. Because, when the LFL policy about the SW universe is concerned, and you need an analysis about the validity of the source material, Gideon is most certainly a higher ranking authority than LFL officials. 🙄
Give it up, Gideon. There is no way that you can establish anything in that regard. You can't prove anything because LFL doesn't want people to be able to do it and hence they construct sources in a way that leaves room for interpretation, debate and so on. That you don't want to accept that - because you are a fanboy - isn't my problem, Gideon. But I'll happily oppose you, as long as you're attempting to pass your oppinion down as fact.
And for the record: If you would argue that Ragnos is the most powerful Sith "beyond the shade of a doubt", I would also oppose you and site Sidious as candidate for the title. I simply don't like fanboys...
There is a reason why the Let's-Fellate-Ragnos campaign is dead, and was even dead at EoD. You all may not have formally accepted the fact that it was a terminal issue, but it registered within the confines of your brain. Hell, even Janus only tries to bring the issue up to annoy me; it's only ever argued as a matter of ego by people much too stubborn to admit that they were wrong.
You are mistaken, Gideon. There never was a "Let's fellate Ragnos" campaign. There just was a "let's bash fanboys" campaign, with you and Lightsnake in the role of the main victims. And, let me check - gosh - you're still playing that very role, apparently without knowing it. Why? To state it with the, slightly modified, words of Clive Barker (Arabat): "Fanboys always had their part to play. Without them, how would we know, when we walked in the light of logic? It's only, when their ambitions become too grandiose, that they must be opposed, disciplined, sometimes - if necessary - brought down for a time. Then they will rise again, as they must." Got it?
And I wonder how you'd know what was going on at EoD, provided you had yourself booted out, being unable to stick to the - very simple - rules of the forum. Awww yes. In contrast to your own oppinion, you weren't banned because you didn't share the opinion of one admin. You were banned because being lectured on certain rules several times and still ignoring them. Fortunately, you apparently have figured out how to run your own forum now where you can bask in your fanboyism and contradiction of LFL officials, without having to face any opposition. Congratulations!
Here are the facts: Palpatine is more powerful than Count Dooku and Marka Ragnos is not the most powerful Sith Lord/Force-user ever.
Here are the real facts: Neither did I argue the former nor the latter. And even if I had done it, you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong. It's not that I'm telling you that for almost 4 years now...Gosh. Actually, that's exactly what I do. I think you mental faculties are leaving much to desire, given you still haven't got the point. And if you think you can do the job - just go on and try, Gideon. I'm already looking forward to see you failing once again.
The arguments you have made since your "return" are filled with blatant contradictions and double standards. You take Mace Windu's opinion on Depa Billaba to be factual; something Faunus and I both called you out on, yet he is not a credible source when it comes to Obi-Wan Kenobi or his fellow Jedi Masters? You'll place stock in the words of a lying, deceitful Sith Lord [Dooku] to prove your argument, and you have to put a spin on those? You periodically cite Palpatine as the most powerful Sith Lord ever, and then will harass me ad nauseum and claim that it isn't true.
See. I told you, that you've never got a grasp on the concept of logical reasoning. I first have to lecture you on "double-standards" as it seems. To use a double-standard, I have to set up universal laws myself and then not adhere to them while expecting the same from others. What is my universal law here? Right. To me, every character statement is questionable (and so are the thoughts of characters). For you, apparently, every character statement is the absolute truth unless contradicted.
Now, use your brain, Gideon: Do I commit a double-standard when I question a character statement, even if I should use a statement of the same character? Because my maxim that they can be questioned. In fact your mindset makes tossing character quotes at you rather effective even when I don't expect that people won't argue against them. If you accept every character statement - why should I waste my time with complex thoughts if copy and paste is enough to defeat you?
The second thing is: We're talking about logical reasoning here, Gideon. Even if I contradict my own (previous) arguments, that doesn't say anything about the validity of my points. So, to try and attack my points by stating that they cotradicting other points I made, is just an ad hominem: Attacking the person instead of attacking the argument. That's logical reasoning - something you don't seem to be capable off.
It's not something that is cute or funny. It's rather stupid that, for whatever reason, you feel inclined to put such a blatant spin for some agenda. When you try to defend Janus's logic and I apply it to another example, you predictably label it as a red herring when it concerns one of your favorite characters.
No. I labeled it red herring because it was, gosh, a red herring. Why? Because it didn't have anything to do with the original argument. When you draw the attention away from the topic, that counts as a red herring. It's that easy.
You've still haven't come up with an answer as to why the highest form of canon depicts those Jedi not to show any reaction and why, despite of that, you still regard them as "some of the best ever" - a statement based on nothing but Obi-Wans thoughts that, on top of that, contradicts Lucas, who clearly describes a rather huge gap in ability between "the best" and the trio. Instead you tried to lure the attention to Sidious VS Yoda (who both didn't look to great in the office scene of their fight, did they?).
Like it or not, you lack a certain objectivity when you debate. You've never been known for it. Neither has Janus. That you are driven to completely ignore facts because you made a faulty contention that you can't reconcile with yourself is asinine.
Lmfao. The biggest Sidious fanboy on the entire planet (yes, you supassed Lightsnake in that department) is lecturing me on objectivity? You want to lecture me on anything here, Gideon? I think, I have to confront you with your own words a bit, huh?
Gideon wrote:
You know your stuff, Nai. Far more than 99.8 percent of ANYONE here, including myself.
Gideon wrote:
In most cases, you'd pwn me in a debate.
Oh snap, Gideon. Apparently, by your own words, my debating skill and my SW knowledge exceed your own. The last time I checked, this here was a forum to debate topics that are SW related. So, to make this clear: You are, by your own admission, inferior to me in both departments that do actually matter here. So what do you want to tell me? I know. You want to tell me that the only exception to the "Nai > Gideon" rule happens to be "every topic that involves Sidious", because you are a fanboy. Funny. Do you really think that one single person able to use their brains is going to buy that "logic"? I hope not.
And, gosh, sure I lack a certain objectivity in debates. Do I need to explain my user title to you once again since you still haven't figured out what it means? I will make myself clear once more, so that you might get it into your head. I argue for the sake of the argument. The content and the result both don't matter to me, Gideon. Have you ever seen me being friendly here in order to convince people of my thoughts? Holy shit - no. I oppose people to find out if they are capable of defending their own opposition and, if they aren't, teach them (the unfriendly way) how to make it better. Hence, once more, contradiction occuring in my posts regarding different topics isn't something that concerns me, which should be apparent - especially since it's logically irrelevant. And, gosh, my method works, given that even you have accepted some truths (like character statements = subject to falsification) that you did fight teeth and nail against in the past. I'm not here to defend my opinion.
And talking about "objectivity": Wasn't it you that ignored G-Canon material in form of the RotS script when it comes to the question if Yoda was superior to Sidious in lightsaber combat (disarming him)? Isn't it you who ignores the G-Canon movie when talking about the fights happening in the time of RotS, because the C-Canon parts of the novel give you more opportunities to fellate your favourite character? This while attempting to lecture me and Janus how we can't simply pick what we like from the source material?
Hell, Gideon. At least I, unlike you, don't feel the need to register on the official PotC board , just to spread Sidious fanboyism. 🙄
Nuff said, Mr. Alexian Cale? 🙄
On a sidenote: Wasn't it you who attempted to argue that Sidious is the most powerful, based on the comment in the RotS novel? I've proven you wrong. You've conceeded. Wasn't it you who tried to argue that Sidious is the most powerful based on the statement from the NEC. Who has contested the idea that Voren Na'al was stating the absolute truth there? Oh right...me. Who tried to deny that, just to conceed once again? Correct. That was you. So you are conceeding to me quitely, while I'm not here? Great. And then you try to oppose me when I visit again? Craving for attention much, Gideon?
And now? Now you're using an "out of universe source" quoting Vader's very own thoughts to prove that Sidious is the most powerful. Do I even need to come up with an argument, or can we just agree that you will fight over the quote just to conceed the point quitely during my next absence, saving us both some time?
The long and short of it is that we've all tried to get you to discuss this perceived logical miscarriage with us for years [the same offer was extended to Janus more than once], but you never accepted, which suggests that you really don't have any faith in the shit you type. This isn't meant to be offensive, it's meant to be honest. I truly see no sense in what you type. Not because I think you're stupid, but because I think you're stubborn.
Apparently you still didn't get the point. I'm not interested to argue with fanboys, because that doesn't get me anywhere - it's just cheap entertainment. Same as telling Sexy that he is "TDTD" or "a troll" and watch the results - which are rather hilarious. You have your obsession, and you will stick to it. Why would I try to fight something with logic that is illogical down to it's very foundation? And in your special case, I'm dealing with some wannabe-intelligent hillbilly that thinks he is smart. Reason? Right here:
Originally posted by Gideon
I live in southern Kentucky, which is well within the heartland of the inbred, the inept, and the insufferably stupid.
Maybe, you are the one sole intelligent person in the homeland of idiots. That may put you above your neighbours, your girlfriends (blood-related and others), friends and so on. Here? You don't hold the position of the smartest guy around, I'm afraid. Being the one-eyed man among the blind where you live might turn you into the superhero of your hometown - it still doesn't matter here. And, in contrary to what you may think, this here also isn't a popularity contest.
I expect another evasion or a diatribe, because if there's one thing you're not, it's direct (you're blunt, it's a little different).I think the time has come for you to repent for your sins, lol. Admit that you were wrong about Ragnos and Dooku. It would give us some common ground to start building something other than insults on. [/B]
Evasion? What shall I evade here, with the exception of that big pile of bullshit you have produced? And diatribe? Well...telling you the truth is equal to commiting one (according to yourself), but see: It's not my fault that you suck.
And common ground for what, Gideon? Let me make it clear: You won't get approval from me. Neither for your Sidious fanboyism nor for your unfounded arrogance. And what can you do against that fact? Try to win a debate against me regarding your wrinkled loverboy? Bring it on, Gideon. You will get curbstomped, ridiculed and subjected to humiliation until I don't see any fun in that any longer and go away - leaving you little failure behind. That's your destiny.
But don't try to straw man me again. That doesn't work. Neither does your appeal to the non-existant majority or the lukewarm applause of your "friends". Nor ignoring LFL officials, the source material itself or - your most successful tactic to this point - repeating defeated arguments ad nauseam.
Have a nice day.
P.S.:
The last time we "debated" the issues (Sidious VS Ancient Sith / Sidious VS Dooku), you quit the debate, because being unable to reply without looking like a complete idiot. Then you tossed the (poor) excuse in, that you'd rather agree to disagree. Do you want to have that again, Gideon? Really? You know that you can't win so I really wonder what forces you to try it again and again?
So, from the perspective of Sidious, they are just cannon fodder - are they not? So they are cannon fodder from the perspective of one that is on one level with some of the best swordsman ever (Mace and Yoda). Which means that the trio can not belong to the elite of duelling because they are an entire league below the people that belong on that pedestal. Otherwise their would be no way for Sidious to cut three of them down within seconds.
You use this argument several times throughout... whatever that was... and I'm not entirely sure it is valid. I'd like to point out Kas'im, who was considered to be (among) the best of his era despite his limited Force technique. It seems to me that the trio's skill could be absolutely fantastic (which is something Kenobi is fit to evaluate) despite their inferior speed; Sidious' speed is prodigious. You're trying to forge a link between skill and speed that I don't see. Being slow compared with an incredibly powerful Sith lord doesn't disparage or discredit their ability at all.
Their lack of reaction can best be explained through another rationalization: EU speed. In the Bane books, a neophyte is said to move faster than the eye can see. Peak performers in the Golden age of the Jedi (and Sidious) would naturally move faster still. Furthermore, the audience wouldn't want to watch a blur, so the "window" to the SW universe just slowed down the exchange a bit. This explanation allows the maximum quantity of data to be admitted. It fits best with multiple sources and contradicts none. Why not?
If we accept the above paragraph as valid, the contradiction disappears. Kit and co. aren't slow, Sidious is fast. Mace and Sidious aren't moving like old men, they are essentially in slow mo.
thoughts?
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You use this argument several times throughout... whatever that was... and I'm not entirely sure it is valid. I'd like to point out Kas'im, who was considered to be (among) the best of his era despite his limited Force technique. It seems to me that the trio's skill could be absolutely fantastic (which is something Kenobi is fit to evaluate) despite their inferior speed; Sidious' speed is prodigious. You're trying to forge a link between skill and speed that I don't see. Being slow compared with an incredibly powerful Sith lord doesn't disparage or discredit their ability at all.
To the contrary, RN. Trying to link "skill" to "speed" has been done by Lightsnake and Gideon. And, in fact, speed is a part of your overall duelling ability.
The point is that the members of the trio are listed as some of the best duellist ever trained, and not sited as three beings with some of the best knowledge about lightsaber techniques ever. Of course speed is not everything in the duelling department - but it is part of the overall duelling ability.
And Kas'im was able to match Bane (who was definetely the more powerful when it came to force powers) in terms of speed and even managed to force Bane to retreat. If Kas'im had brought two other compatants with skill on par with his own and Bane would have killed all three of them in the matter of seconds - would somebody say that Kas'im was "one of the best duellists ever"?
Their lack of reaction can best be explained through another rationalization: EU speed. In the Bane books, a neophyte is said to move faster than the eye can see. Peak performers in the Golden age of the Jedi (and Sidious) would naturally move faster still. Furthermore, the audience wouldn't want to watch a blur, so the "window" to the SW universe just slowed down the exchange a bit. This explanation allows the maximum quantity of data to be admitted. It fits best with multiple sources and contradicts none. Why not?
Because it doesn't explain anything. Of course Sidious would move faster than it appears on screen. The point is that, as "some of the best ever trained" the Jedi standing there should be able to react to this attack, especially since Sidious speaks with them after revealing his weapon. He takes out his lightsaber and, after that, utters the "it's treason then" line. None of the Jedi feels the need to act here. And those beings, equipped with the ability of precognition and with superhuman speed and reflexes just stand there and get killed. Does that make any sense?
One could say that Sidious was far ahead of them in terms of force mastery and speed and that led to their deaths. The point is that if Sidious is so far ahead of them in that department, how can we assume that they are in Sidious league (= some of the best ever)? They are not.
If we accept the above paragraph as valid, the contradiction disappears. Kit and co. aren't slow, Sidious is fast. Mace and Sidious aren't moving like old men, they are essentially in slow mo.
...and Kit and Co. are nowhere close to him in terms of speed (not in his league), thereby get slaughtered and, because of that fact, clearly don't belong into the "best duellists ever trained" deparment, because they can't keep up with people belonging on that pedestal (Mace, Yoda).
The point is that the members of the trio are listed as some of the best duellist ever trained, and not sited as three beings with some of the best knowledge about lightsaber techniques ever.
That ends my position. Dueling includes skill and speed. I misread/couldn't recall the quote then.
What of the GL quote then? He explicitly labels them as the 'A' team (or some such). How can that be reconciled?
Originally posted by Borbarad
Another funny troll post, Sexy. How about this:We could again discuss how you are not the troll formerly known as TDTD and how you just share the same:
- first name
- AIM name
- date of birth
- university (I rofl'd)
- law school (I rofl'd)
- home city
- current locations
- religionI mean, okay, Faunus has done it not only once but actually twice and then apparently dropped the issue out of boredom.
But what would be the point of listing those issues once again? Everybody knows who you are, David. But of course you can go on denying it, which is certainly amusing. Of course, not as amusing as your predictable reactions to you being called a "troll". Quite funny for a former member of SpecialHam.com, the community dedicated to pointless spamming, don't you think so?
Did you ever consider the possibility, that you're just here because it's easier to control a known troll than to figure out if the same troll came back with a new nickname? You are, at least, not as stupid as Nebaris. Or maybe the mods are just giving you a second chance, which anybody deserves, provided he adheres to his previous mistakes. Which you don't do. You're stuck in denial, which is rather pointless, given that nobody here believes that babble.
You are right. They are too nice and passive about stupidity, given that they are still talking to you, dipshit. We're the epitomes of generosity here and even tolerate utter failures like yourself. Isn't that nice? You can go on with the cheap entertainment now, Mr. B.
ROFLROFL. So not only do you NOT know who I am(hint: keep stalking wrong people), but you consider yourself the "epitome of generosity". Aside from your hilarious House-like rants, you don't contribute anything to this forum other than repeated stupidity and unparalleled humor, which is why people still respond to you.
And really Nai, if you want to ATTEMPT to stalk the right person, i'll show you how it's done and you won't ever come back here again, I guarantee you that.
Originally posted by Gideon
You should probably let it go. Just report him and be done with it.
I don't think he realizes the repercussions if he actually starts stalking me. There's many wonderful things you can do with a computer, the internet, and an IP address. Reporting him doesn't do anything but add fuel to the fire. He'll be back bitching rather quickly.
The Almighty Ushgarak, in his dark wisdom, saw fit to bless us pathetic mortals with the Holy Ignore Function, to consign the infidels to oblivion. I haven't seen such blatant trolling in a long time; particularly since no one was insulting him, just asking for an explanation.
It was unwarranted. So, I've reported him, put him on ignore, and posted that lovely photo for everyone to see the vulnerable, wounded ego of Nai Fohl.