runner vs black racer

Originally posted by Juntai
I understand what Surfer is capable of at times. I recall the seconds and light-years later line. I believe I have that comic.. Annihilation?

Your conjecture begins, when you compare that speed, to him getting coasting through space at "N" speed, and his ensuing tussle with Runner.

That's like saying Green Arrow is faster than light-speed, because he hit a speedster with an arrow. Understand?

Now run along. You're clearly in over your head here.

So you're saying that he'd be moving WAY below optimum speed while traveling thru space and would also move at WAY below optimum speed while in combat and that any conclusion based on him moving at close to top speed while traveling or in combat is simple conjecture and should be disregarded?

Wow. Your logic rocks! You SUUUREE showed me. Lol.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
So you're saying that he'd be moving WAY below optimum speed while traveling thru space and would also move at WAY below optimum speed while in combat and that any conclusion based on him moving at close to top speed while traveling or in combat is simple conjecture and should be disregarded?

Wow. Your logic rocks! You SUUUREE showed me. Lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
I understand what Surfer is capable of at times. I recall the seconds and light-years later line. I believe I have that comic.. Annihilation?

Your conjecture begins, when you compare that speed, to him getting coasting through space at "N" speed, and his ensuing tussle with Runner.

That's like saying Green Arrow is faster than light-speed, because he hit a speedster with an arrow. Understand?

Now run along. You're clearly in over your head here.

According to Barry Allen and Final Crisis, Black Racer can't go beyond light speed currently.

That means Runner wins.

Originally posted by Juntai
Do you have evidence they are invalid then?
Something that rubbed them from continuity?

Using his top speeds would be valid if he had shown those feat more often/ or more recently. Which is not the case here.

But we see with Zoom arc Wally needed all the flashes KE to achieve light speed instantly and other instances I have mentioned earlier.

We see this when Wally’s fight with Grood , and Flashes vs Zoom etc

These are not PIS/CIS because the character needed maximum level of speed to defeat that opponent. If Flash’s inability to achieve those speed when most needed is not proof. I don’t know what is. Especially when writer and character themselves claim to not have enough speed to do said “task”

So going by what you’re saying no matter how poorly they write flash it does not matter because he had good feats in the past? So we ignore everything and label it PIS/CIS even if it makes up most of his recent showings?

Does that mean when Dr Strange is in any thread against a magician, they can simply turn his powers off, like an amatuer did in The Oath?

The difference with Strange is that he is constantly shown from defeating abstract to getting owned by noobs. Flash hasn't been his old self in awhile.

and Current Strange is a joke anyway.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's conjecture because you're extrapolating.

True, there was a little extrapolation involved in determning the speed of which the Surfer was moving at the time. However, ALMOST all feats become extrapolation if we follow these strict sets of guidelines.

Ex: The only reason we thought that the Black Racer was fast was because he caught up to the Flash. However, how fast do we REALLY know the Flash to be running at that time? Was there any indication that he was moving at higher than light speed at all? We had to extrapolate data based on the feats of the Flash to determine this.

Also, we know that the top speed of the surfer is easily millions of times the speed of light. Extrapolation or not, what makes more sense, that he'd be traveling at much much much much much lower than this at combat or cruising speed? Common sense applies, too, yknow.

Originally posted by kgkg
Yes when we have recent evidence of writers claiming that Flash can no longer achieve
That speed makes old one invalid. Until we see him reach those speed again. It is still in continuity but writer have changed how fast/powerful a charters is even without the need of changing continuity. Happens all the time

Using his top speeds would be valid if he had shown those feat more often/ or more recently. Which is not the case here.

But we see with Zoom arc Wally needed all the flashes KE to achieve light speed instantly and other instances I have mentioned earlier.

We see this when Wally’s fight with Grood , and Flashes vs Zoom etc

These are not PIS/CIS because the character needed maximum level of speed to defeat that opponent. If Flash’s inability to achieve those speed when most needed is not proof. I don’t know what is. Especially when writer and character themselves claim to not have enough speed to do said “task”

So going by what you’re saying no matter how poorly they write flash it does not matter because he had good feats in the past? So we ignore everything and label it PIS/CIS even if it makes up most of his recent showings?

If this happens more often and said character have shown the ability to turn of power. Sure

The difference with Strange is that he is constantly shown from defeating abstract to getting owned by noobs. Flash hasn't been his old self in awhile.

and Current Strange is a joke anyway.

OH, BUT ITS SUPPORTED AGAIN ON PANEL.
In Amazons Attack. He couldn't stop a whole group of people from getting gunned down!

You're acting like someone's trying to pull feats from the 60s and 70s, like Thor and Hulk fans do.

Flash's bigger feats, are all still fairly recent in memory, and are still continuity.

Originally posted by Juntai
What you're suggesting is throwing away feats every time a character changes writers. That's bullshit and you know it. They all handle them differently. It doesn't make previous in-continuity events any less substantial.
Like, when the writer had Superman fail to speed over and catch a bullet, suddenly he can't do that anymore? lmao.

OH, BUT ITS SUPPORTED AGAIN ON PANEL.
In Amazons Attack. He couldn't stop a whole group of people from getting gunned down!

You're acting like someone's trying to pull feats from the 60s and 70s, like Thor and Hulk fans do. Flash's bigger feats, are all still fairly recent in memory, and are still continuity.

I don't mind one or two cases of writers failing to realize something. But when you have entire arcs showing limitation it's hard to overlook them.

Originally posted by kgkg
[B]Difference is Superman inability to catch bullet is PIS especially when he has done it often before.

Originally posted by Juntai
End of debate. 🙂

What are his recent biggest feat?

Originally posted by Enyalus
According to Barry Allen and Final Crisis, Black Racer can't go beyond light speed currently.

Originally posted by Enyalus
According to Barry Allen and Final Crisis, Black Racer can't go beyond light speed currently.

That means Runner wins.

Originally posted by Juntai
If he can gain on Flash, he can gain on Runner.
If you want to, we can compare Runner and Flash feats. 🙂

Superman's feats rival and surpass that of Galactus, Tiamut and Odin to name a few yet does that mean regular supes beats them? No and that way of thinking is silly. Supes gets WTFpwned by all of those guys even with a sun amp let alone regular supes. The other fact which makes your logic unsound is the many more appearances that Flash has over Runner and thus will obviously have more feats. Yet somehow this proves what exactly? That flash is superior in the speed department.. Hardly.

Isn't the Black Runner created to catch Speedsters, or am I confusing this?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Isn't the Black Runner created to catch Speedsters, or am I confusing this?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Superman's feats rival and surpass that of Galactus, Tiamut and Odin to name a few yet does that mean regular supes beats them? No and that way of thinking is silly. Supes gets WTFpwned by all of those guys even with a sun amp let alone regular supes. The other fact which makes your logic unsound is the many more appearances that Flash has over Runner and thus will obviously have more feats. Yet somehow this proves what exactly? That flash is superior in the speed department.. Hardly.

Originally posted by Nihilist
black racer is death(new gods), black flash catches speedsters

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yeah, but aren't they all the concept of death?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yeah, but aren't they all the concept of death?

Juntai beat me to it

So BR=BF?