Originally posted by Scribble
I mean I understand it's hard as a man to understand that fear or even recognise that it exists, but that's where empathy and being friends with women comes into it. After having heard stories about the way they've been treated (and having witnessed it on quite a few occasions) I can't help but take their side in it because it is actually happening all the time.
maybe i'm just being a dictionary nazi, but i don't think either of us can empathize. we can certainly sympathize.
Originally posted by Bashar TegOh no we wouldn't be able to actually fully empathise, but we can try, which I think is much more important than sympathy. I think trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes is one of the most important things because even if you don't have a reference point, even imagining what it's like for them can help to change one's perspective. Imo sympathy is good but it's mostly just a stepping stone to empathy, or attempted empathy (that sounds like a really weird crime or something)
maybe i'm just being a dictionary nazi, but i don't think either of us can empathize. we can certainly sympathize.
Like sympathy would be recognising the thing that has happened and feeling bad for the person it happened to, empathy would be trying to imagine that it'd be like having scores of men leering at you from every corner and how that might change your perspective on life
Like I say it's probably impossible to fully understand it, but trying is key
Originally posted by Scribble
I mean I understand it's hard as a man to understand that fear or even recognise that it exists, but that's where empathy and being friends with women comes into it. After having heard stories about the way they've been treated (and having witnessed it on quite a few occasions) I can't help but take their side in it because it is actually happening all the time.
You probably don't even need to be close to women to understand it happens. Unless you've lived in a basement your whole life or strictly hung around just men, you've absolutely witnessed women being rudely mistreated by men; both verbally and physically. Be it the "come on baby, let's f88k" type of comments, to the ass-grab, body pressed too closely against etc. This isn't even discussing the more benign but still unwelcome shit that's ubiquitous.
edit: actually, with the invention of the internet and the spread of info, being a basement dweller is no longer an excuse to be ignorant that shit like this happens constantly to women:
YouTube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0NwiwAcll8
YouTube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A
But don't you dare say the words "rape culture", or else it upsets the dudebros.
Originally posted by ScribbleLike sympathy would be recognising the thing that has happened and feeling bad for the person it happened to, empathy would be trying to imagine that it'd be like having scores of men leering at you from every corner and how that might change your perspective on life
i think you're really understating the cultural changing power of sympathy, which doesn't just mean "feels bad man, here's an upvote/like", but also what you described: to try to imagine what it's like.
take for example a massive burn victim. how could you possibly empathize with them? all you can do is sympathize, and in that sympathy i think we all instinctively try to internally put ourselves in their shoes. but you can't be like "hey i do kinda know what it's like because i burned my hand on a tea kettle". but at the same time, i think we instinctively internal-reference our own experiences as a source for feeling that sympathy. i don't consider that empathy, however.
Originally posted by Bashar TegI'd say that's more empathy than sympathy, but I get your overall point, and tbh you can't have empathy without sympathy so both are just as key to being a decent human
i think you're really understating the cultural changing power of sympathy, which doesn't just mean "feels bad man, here's an upvote/like", but also what you described: to try to imagine what it's like.take for example a massive burn victim. how could you possibly empathize with them? all you can do is sympathize, and in that sympathy i think we all instinctively try to internally put ourselves in their shoes. but you can't be like "hey i do kinda know what it's like because i burned my hand on a tea kettle". but at the same time, i think we instinctively internal-reference our own experiences as a source for feeling that sympathy. i don't consider that empathy, however.