Anakin Skywalker vs. Mace Windu

Started by DARTH POWER11 pages
Originally posted by Eminence
Like the entire Nick Gillard debacle.

and what was the pertinent information i missed out there??

the quote i have was from the making of ROTS the book in which all he said was "on this movie Mace, Anakin and Yoda are all 9's up there with Sidious." He did say something about darkside giving a boost, but so what? From the start weve all said it was anakin giving into his rage who badly overpowered dooku.

So dnt accuse me of stuff just because you dnt like the points i bring up.

Originally posted by Lord Tyranus
Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin. He was trying to get him to embrace his dark emotions and use his anger. He succeeded at the cost of his life unfortunately.

Yeah but once Anakin gave into his rage there was nothing Dooku could do to stop him.

Also there was a point in the novel when Dooku says no point in taking chances.. "Sidious can come up with a new plan more easily than he can find a new apprentice.."

In other words he thought forget the plan, hell kill anakin if he has to.

Originally posted by Gideon
Henceforth, those who do not use logic shall be shunned, ridiculed, and then put on ignore. I, Gideon, the duly appointed arbiter of logic as per the orders of the KMC Holy Trinity, haff spokin.

Blah Blah Blah

Originally posted by Gideon
That's just it. While Mace and Dooku may be equal in raw bladework, that isn't exactly how Mace fights; Vaapad and the shatterpoint charism are two advantages that would tip the overall combat scale in his favor, hence why Dooku ceased the engagement on Boz Pity and relied on Magnaguards to survive, despite the fact that he instructed his underlings to "leave the Jedi to [Dooku]."

I never denied Mace wuldnt win a Saber fight against Dooku.. Your right Vapaad + Shatterpoint would favour Mace to tip the odds on his side.

But Dooku running means nothing.. Thats just a strategic retreat from fighting someone whose easily his equal, but willing to give his life to take out Dooku.. Dooku on the other hand was not willing to give his own life.. Thats the cowardice Sith way, the same reason why Sidious tried to flee from Yoda.

Anyway if Dooku and Mace are equal in pure bladework, then that would make Anakin superior to Mace in pure bladework, and he would need Vapaad's advantage on Darksiders to win.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is fairly inept. Yoda made it explicitly clear to everyone that Dooku "must be captured." It's a qualifier; he wasn't seeking to kill Count Dooku, though we can all speculate that he was willing to go there. Intent makes a great deal of difference. This, coupled with the fact that Yoda didn't even try to attack Dooku until the last salvo with the Force and that he would later embarrass his former protege on Vjun -- a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force and thus an environment where Dooku's powers were at their apex -- is proof enough: if Yoda attacked Dooku the way he attacked Sidious in the Rotunda, Dooku would be utterly destroyed.

Dooku must be "captured" which is only said in the novel not the film, was said to stress the fact that dooku has to be stopped to stop this war.

The word "Captured" means jack.. Thats just the Jedi way, unless absolutley neccesary to kill. Mace also went to "Arrest" Palpatine not kill him(before the FL started), yet Anakin noticed there was no Jedi restraint there. Anakin also did not hold back against Dooku, and yet still had the "option" of capturing him or killing him.

So using the word "Capture" from the novel, to some how suggest Yoda was not going to try very hard to stop Dooku is quite stupid. Yeah fine hed rather "capture" him... so what was stopping him from Knocking him out with the Force, or chopping off his arms and legs in the Saber fight?? Nothing.

As for Vjun, where Yoda was overpowering Dooku "Slowly, slowly" most people like yourself have completely missed the fact that the atmosphere of Vjun was affecting Yoda as well making him much more fierce than he usually is. "The sight of Yoda was terrible to behold", and he admitted his intentions were always to Kill Dooku. "Even here in this dark place Love you enough to Kill you I DO"

Originally posted by Gideon
This, too, is fairly inept. Vaapad is a variant of Juyo, which requires its users to be "high end masters of multiple forms." It is commonly referred to as the most demanding and technical of forms; Yoda has personally referred to it as "the deadliest." So, yeah, it's a lot better..

Oh and deadliest has got nothing to do with the extra speed and power it grants? Of course it does.. But "technical skill" for a Saber Duel is something totally different.. Thats why Makashi's the best for that despite Vapaad being the deadliest. And Vader knew Juyo by RODV,not lonf after ROTS meaning he must also have been a high level master of many forms.

Originally posted by Gideon
"But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue. Impasse. Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.

[...]

Feeling for its shatterpoint."

Page 331 of the hardback novel. You lose.

Yeah if you stop reading there. If you carry on reading Shatterpoint didnt help him. Just pointed him to Anakin, and he had no idea how to take advantage of that. I lose Nothing.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
This is what I find very annoying. Some of you guys band together and form an unofficial clubs, where you guys are the "smart guys".

Yes and theyve all agreed to certain veiws which they try to enforce on these threads. If you dnt follow their veiwpoint, or if you come in here by yourself and challenge that, then your "stupid" or "inept" which kind of makes debating here quite pointless.

Dooku must be "captured" which is only said in the novel not the film, was said to stress the fact that dooku has to be stopped to stop this war.

The word "Captured" means jack.. Thats just the Jedi way, unless absolutley neccesary to kill. Mace also went to "Arrest" Palpatine not kill him(before the FL started), yet Anakin noticed there was no Jedi restraint there. Anakin also did not hold back against Dooku, and yet still had the "option" of capturing him or killing him.

So using the word "Capture" from the novel, to some how suggest Yoda was not going to try very hard to stop Dooku is quite stupid. Yeah fine hed rather "capture" him... so what was stopping him from Knocking him out with the Force, or chopping off his arms and legs in the Saber fight?? Nothing.

As for Vjun, where Yoda was overpowering Dooku "Slowly, slowly" most people like yourself have completely missed the fact that the atmosphere of Vjun was affecting Yoda as well making him much more fierce than he usually is. "The sight of Yoda was terrible to behold", and he admitted his intentions were always to Kill Dooku. "Even here in this dark place Love you enough to Kill you I DO"

Compare Yoda's fight with Dooku to his fight with Sidious. Not once did Yoda attack Dooku with the force, except for redirecting Dooku's lightning. Not once did Yoda use any tk attack against him. All Yoda did was shrugg off all Dooku's attacks to the side. Does it sound like Yoda was trying to kill Dooku? So the novel does not contradict the movie when Yoda says Dooku needs to be captured. In fact it makes more sense of the movie.

As for Yoda's fight with Dooku on Vjun, you have to remember there were innocent lives Yoda was worried about, like the woman Dooku threw out the window.

DARTH POWER
and what was the pertinent information i missed out there??
Me
First up, the idea of "Anakin = Level 9, ergo Anakin = Mace." There are two major problems with your use of this "fact." One, Nick Gillard isn't necessarily a reputable canon source. At all. His version of Jedi combat is not corroborated by a single published canon source, or even noncanon or verbal sources.

Two, you've been intentionally ignoring one very significant piece of Gillard's statement:

"Obi-Wan is at a level 8, which is where Anakin starts. But Anakin jumps to level 9 -- and the difference between 8 and 9 is enormous. A Jedi can get to level 9, but that's the difference between light and dark."

Which also doesn't really make sense given that Mace and Yoda are apparently level 9, but what's relevant here is that - as I pointed out - Gillard made it clear that the dark side is what made Anakin "a level 9," and that [at the beginning of RotS] he's a level 8, just like Obi-Wan. Gillard also points out that there's an "enormous" gap between 8 and 9, meaning that dark side Anakin [9] is an [enormously] greater swordsman than Jedi Anakin [8]. And since Mace Windu is a level 9, he too is an [enormously] greater swordsman than Jedi Anakin.

Also, this was you making shit up:

DARTH POWER
And [Form V] will deflect Mace's Vapaad Power attacks back on to him

DARTH POWER
the quote i have was from the making of ROTS the book in which all he said was "on this movie Mace, Anakin and Yoda are all 9's up there with Sidious." He did say something about darkside giving a boost, but so what? From the start weve all said it was anakin giving into his rage who badly overpowered dooku.
See the above. You actually ignored me when I told you post the entire quote, which I did three times.

DARTH POWER
So dnt accuse me of stuff just because you dnt like the points i bring up.
I accuse you of stuff because you do the stuff I accuse you of doing, and I don't like the points you bring up because they're almost universally moronic.

Originally posted by Gideon
You realize that all of what you said assumes that you are the "smart guy" and we're getting it all wrong?

Way to endorse a mentality you apparently hate.

Since when did I say that? I'm just saying that you guys shouldn't laugh at "stupid" posts when they really aren't. Sure, SOME of them are, but not all of them.

Mace Windu wins, however Darth Power DOES bring up some good points.

Darth Power has no points. State some. The points he does bring up are:
-Anakin is stronger
-Djem So is made for lightsaber combat so it MUST be better than Vapaad
-Disregard for any GL statement
-Disregard for Gideons statements
-Anakin is a level 9 duelist!!!!!one11
-D00ku=WINDOU (rofl)
-Anakin>D00ku
-Anakin>Mace
-Anakin>Vapaad
-Nick Gillard>GL
-Flaming people makes me SMART
-Only canon I have is d00ku

Now lets see what other uber logical points he will bring up.

I don't know that he's flamed anyone yet.

Ooops that was response to his "formed together" comment. Got mixed up there.

Originally posted by The Ground
Darth Power has no points. State some. The points he does bring up are:
-Anakin is stronger

Actually, I posted a quote from RotS novel, which was edited by GL, saying Anakin is the most powerful jedi of the Era. Dosn't mean he wins but means he is stronger.

Originally posted by ares834
Actually, I posted a quote from RotS novel, which was edited by GL, saying Anakin is the most powerful jedi of the Era. Dosn't mean he wins but means he is stronger.

Arguably the most powerful. From an in universe in character speculation.

Most powerful Jedi of his generation. Generation = 25 years. Mace is 53, Anakin is 23. 53 - 23 = 30. 30 > 25.

And again, the fact that he is more "powerful" does not mean he is physically "stronger," nor does it mean he poses a threat via the Force. This is illustrated rather clearly in his duel with Obi-Wan.

Where is this shown? Where has Anakin ever displayed pure strength? I want the exact example.

Daaaayum. Triple post!

Quadruple.

Originally posted by Eminence
Daaaayum. Triple post!
Originally posted by The Ground
Quadruple.

Are you high? That was only two!

Acid is bad.

NUH UH!!

NO!

Amino acids are not bad.