Yes it does, and to his character. But one must question as to the fact that, despite the author's assertion of his status, Anakin still can't compete with Sidious? And as it's been said a lot recently, GL said he can't even compete. Mace competed, and won. Yoda competed, and lost. But according to GL, Anakin doesn't have power enough to even contend with him. I blame Stover. As one who should be aware of what GL said, it's some pretty bad story telling.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah darkside Anakin also gains strength from his dark emotions. And he has A LOT of rage to draw from, as well as practically unlimited force reserves. Dooku also gained power from the dark side which is why he was more powerful as a sith.
And that is where the loop comes into play.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm curious if you're trying to imitate a graduate of Nai Fohl's My-Word-Is-Law-Without-The-Benefit-Of-Evidence Academy for Desperate Nerds anywhere or if you actually are one. You haven't proven any of this at all.
So overpowering Dooku so badly that his "mastery of swordplay was useless" his "decades of combat experience irrelevant" and his "knowledge of the force a joke" is not proof that darkside anakin was wayyy out of dooku's league, and therefore clearly in mace's league at least, who fought dooku in obsession and was equal to him every clash of the blade neither one of them giving ground.. mace was also dookus equal in swrodplay according to dark rendezvous.
and whatever you say about Yoda vs. Dooku, the fact is dooku competed with yoda twice and survived to tell the tail.. even though Yoda HAD TO stop dooku in their first fight at least.. he went up against darkside anakin and got defeated quite quickly.
Oh and then also the fact that Anakin was as fine a user of djem so as dooku had ever seen speaks volumes for skywalker's technical duelling skills.. Can you really tell me Vapaad is better in technical skill for duelling than Djem So??
Iv been giving sound reasoning based on factual information the whole thread, but some of you just arnt listening. And im a reasonable guy.. im not a bigot.. I do listen(unlike some people here) which is why i accepted a few pages ago that Mace would defeat Anakin via the "Loop"
Originally posted by Gideon
The Holy Trinity of God, Ushgarak, and James Spader named me the official Logic Arbiter;
Urmmm.. ok.. but i dnt beleive in the holy trinity anyway, so that means jack to me.
Originally posted by Gideon
That's pretty dense. While Mace is not more powerful than the Emperor, when immersed in Vaapad, he is [if the novelization is to be believed] at least Palpatine's equal, with the shatterpoint charism tipping the scales in his favor.
No thats not dense Gideon, because they were equal after the Loop came into play. and shatterpoint never helped him. It was his experience as a jedi that tipped the scales. Go read it again.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yes it does, and to his character. But one must question as to the fact that, despite the author's assertion of his status, Anakin still can't compete with Sidious? And as it's been said a lot recently, GL said he can't even compete. Mace competed, and won. Yoda competed, and lost. But according to GL, Anakin doesn't have power enough to even contend with him. I blame Stover. As one who should be aware of what GL said, it's some pretty bad story telling.
Theres no contradiction there. Its completely unrelated to whom can compete with sidious.
Anakin may well be the fastest, the strongest, and the jedi with the most raw power at his diposal.. but as of ROTS hes only able to apply that physically, and hasnt shown any impressive mastery of the force..
So sidious would more than likely dispose of anakin with the force very very easily.. he simply can not compete on that front. Just like Obi1 could not compete with Dooku because of Dooku's mastery of the force, even though in sabers alone Obi1 could probably give Dooku a good challenge.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERThat's exactly the reason why he shouldn't be able to compete with experienced and seasoned people like Sidious, Yoda, and Mace. But I dislike how Stover described him as so wonderful and magnificent. Makes people think he [I]can[/].
Theres no contradiction there. Its completely unrelated to whom can compete with sidious.Anakin may well be the fastest, the strongest, and the jedi with the most raw power at his diposal.. but as of ROTS hes only able to apply that physically, and hasnt shown any impressive mastery of the force..
So sidious would more than likely dispose of anakin with the force very very easily.. he simply can not compete on that front. Just like Obi1 could not compete with Dooku because of Dooku's mastery of the force, even though in sabers alone Obi1 could probably give Dooku a good challenge.
On a different note, Ive noticed on these threads You all seem to be basing all your opinions on that one statement of Lucas "You have to be either Mace of Yoda to compete with the Emporer." He was just explaining why the Jedi B team was useless against Sidious.. he wasnt writing down a LAW for Star Wars.
You do realise Lucas also said once that Vader after getting beaten by Obi1 was "Never AGAIN as strong as the emporer" implying that before he got beaten he was that strong..
Also i hope you realise Lucas contributed A LOT to the ROTS novel, and anything he didnt want/like was taken out. So Lucas's contribution to the power set of the characters is not limited to that one line "You have to be Yoda or Mace"..
Vader wasnt Yoda or Mace and yet he was 80% of OT Emporer according to Lucas. Thats enough to compete dnt you think?! And hes actually the one who killed the Emporer as well! Lol.
Lets not also forget Dooku competed agaisnt Yoda, so its makes no sense he culdnt even "compete" against Sidious, apart from Sidious having some kind of HUGE pyschological advantage over him.
So I dnt think you should take any random line by Lucas and just make it Star Wars LAW without looking at the other evidences directly contributed by Lucas or other sayings of Lucas.
Looking at it in context I beleive Lucas was referring to which "JEDIS" could compete with the emporer, as he was answering a question about why Mace took the B team of "JEDIS" with him to fight Sidious.. Which would explain why neither Vader nor Dooku(or starkiller now as well) were mentioned.
Otherwise his statement simply makes no sense, as hes already himself shown Count Dooku compete with Yoda in AOTC, and he showed Yoda and Sidious to be virtual equals in ROTS. And lets not forget the films are G-Cannon, so anything shown there ARE Star Wars Facts.
DARTH POWERcrylaugh
Urmmm.. ok.. but i dnt beleive in the holy trinity anyway, so that means jack to me.
DARTH POWERI want to see the exact statement. You have a history of removing pertinent information from what you cite.
You do realise Lucas also said once that Vader after getting beaten by Obi1 was "Never AGAIN as strong as the emporer" implying that before he got beaten he was that strong..
Originally posted by Lord LucienThe quote means he can't compete with Sidious. Not that he can't compete with Yoda and Windu.
That's exactly the reason why he shouldn't be able to compete with experienced and seasoned people like Sidious, Yoda, and Mace. But I dislike how Stover described him as so wonderful and magnificent. Makes people think he [I]can[/].
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So overpowering Dooku so badly that his "mastery of swordplay was useless" his "decades of combat experience irrelevant" and his "knowledge of the force a joke" is not proof that darkside anakin was wayyy out of dooku's league, and therefore clearly in mace's league at least, who fought dooku in obsession and was equal to him every clash of the blade neither one of them giving ground.. mace was also dookus equal in swrodplay according to dark rendezvous.and whatever you say about Yoda vs. Dooku, the fact is dooku competed with yoda twice and survived to tell the tail.. even though Yoda HAD TO stop dooku in their first fight at least.. he went up against darkside anakin and got defeated quite quickly.
Oh and then also the fact that Anakin was as fine a user of djem so as dooku had ever seen speaks volumes for skywalker's technical duelling skills.. Can you really tell me Vapaad is better in technical skill for duelling than Djem So??
Iv been giving sound reasoning based on factual information the whole thread, but some of you just arnt listening. And im a reasonable guy.. im not a bigot.. I do listen(unlike some people here) which is why i accepted a few pages ago that Mace would defeat Anakin via the "Loop"
Urmmm.. ok.. but i dnt beleive in the holy trinity anyway, so that means jack to me.
No thats not dense Gideon, because they were equal after the Loop came into play. and shatterpoint never helped him. It was his experience as a jedi that tipped the scales. Go read it again.
Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin. He was trying to get him to embrace his dark emotions and use his anger. He succeeded at the cost of his life unfortunately.
Henceforth, those who do not use logic shall be shunned, ridiculed, and then put on ignore. I, Gideon, the duly appointed arbiter of logic as per the orders of the KMC Holy Trinity, haff spokin.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So overpowering Dooku so badly that his "mastery of swordplay was useless" his "decades of combat experience irrelevant" and his "knowledge of the force a joke" is not proof that darkside anakin was wayyy out of dooku's league, and therefore clearly in mace's league at least, who fought dooku in obsession and was equal to him every clash of the blade neither one of them giving ground.. mace was also dookus equal in swrodplay according to dark rendezvous.
That's just it. While Mace and Dooku may be equal in raw bladework, that isn't exactly how Mace fights; Vaapad and the shatterpoint charism are two advantages that would tip the overall combat scale in his favor, hence why Dooku ceased the engagement on Boz Pity and relied on Magnaguards to survive, despite the fact that he instructed his underlings to "leave the Jedi to [Dooku]."
and whatever you say about Yoda vs. Dooku, the fact is dooku competed with yoda twice and survived to tell the tail.. even though Yoda HAD TO stop dooku in their first fight at least.. he went up against darkside anakin and got defeated quite quickly.
This is fairly inept. Yoda made it explicitly clear to everyone that Dooku "must be captured." It's a qualifier; he wasn't seeking to kill Count Dooku, though we can all speculate that he was willing to go there. Intent makes a great deal of difference. This, coupled with the fact that Yoda didn't even try to attack Dooku until the last salvo with the Force and that he would later embarrass his former protege on Vjun -- a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force and thus an environment where Dooku's powers were at their apex -- is proof enough: if Yoda attacked Dooku the way he attacked Sidious in the Rotunda, Dooku would be utterly destroyed.
Oh and then also the fact that Anakin was as fine a user of djem so as dooku had ever seen speaks volumes for skywalker's technical duelling skills.. Can you really tell me Vapaad is better in technical skill for duelling than Djem So??
This, too, is fairly inept. Vaapad is a variant of Juyo, which requires its users to be "high end masters of multiple forms." It is commonly referred to as the most demanding and technical of forms; Yoda has personally referred to it as "the deadliest." So, yeah, it's a lot better.
Iv been giving sound reasoning based on factual information the whole thread, but some of you just arnt listening.
I decide that. And no you haven't.
And im a reasonable guy.. im not a bigot.. I do listen(unlike some people here) which is why i accepted a few pages ago that Mace would defeat Anakin via the "Loop"
The fact that you accepted defeat after being bludgeoned to near death with a barrage of canon statements and factual arguments does not make you reasonable. It means that you're not completely and irretrievably stupid.
Urmmm.. ok.. but i dnt beleive in the holy trinity anyway, so that means jack to me.
The trajectory of your immortal soul is something we can discuss some other time. I'm not referring to the Christian Holy Trinity; I'm referring to this forum's Holy Trinity, of which I am a powerful agent.
No thats not dense Gideon, because they were equal after the Loop came into play. and shatterpoint never helped him. It was his experience as a jedi that tipped the scales. Go read it again.
"But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue. Impasse. Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.
[...]
Feeling for its shatterpoint."
Page 331 of the hardback novel. You lose.
Originally posted by GideonI decide that. And no you haven't.
This is what I find very annoying. Some of you guys band together and form an unofficial clubs, where you guys are the "smart guys". Everyone that you meet you judge them and if you think that they are stupid, then every time they post something you laugh at it and pretend that you're PWNING them in the argument when you really aren't. If you were a third person, unbiased viewer looking at the debate, then you'll realize that the guy you guys are facing (Nebaris, Darth Power, ec.) isn't really as stupid as you guys pretend for him to be. Sure; you guys make great arguments, but so does your opponent. Sometimes you'd even refuse to respond to them because you claim that they aren't worth it.
But enough w/my rant. Mace Windu wins.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
This is what I find very annoying. Some of you guys band together and form an unofficial clubs, where you guys are the "smart guys". Everyone that you meet you judge them and if you think that they are stupid, then every time they post something you laugh at it and pretend that you're PWNING them in the argument when you really aren't. If you were a third person, unbiased viewer looking at the debate, then you'll realize that the guy you guys are facing (Nebaris, Darth Power, ec.) isn't really as stupid as you guys pretend for him to be. Sure; you guys make great arguments, but so does your opponent. Sometimes you'd even refuse to respond to them because you claim that they aren't worth it.But enough w/my rant. Mace Windu wins.
You realize that all of what you said assumes that you are the "smart guy" and we're getting it all wrong?
Way to endorse a mentality you apparently hate.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallAnd yet we're not going to change...
This is what I find very annoying. Some of you guys band together and form an unofficial clubs, where you guys are the "smart guys". Everyone that you meet you judge them and if you think that they are stupid, then every time they post something you laugh at it and pretend that you're PWNING them in the argument when you really aren't. If you were a third person, unbiased viewer looking at the debate, then you'll realize that the guy you guys are facing (Nebaris, Darth Power, ec.) isn't really as stupid as you guys pretend for him to be. Sure; you guys make great arguments, but so does your opponent. Sometimes you'd even refuse to respond to them because you claim that they aren't worth it.
Huh.