Anakin Skywalker vs. Mace Windu

Started by Hewhoknowsall11 pages
Hewhoknowsall Restricted
Originally posted by ares834
I never said I doubt that Mace is mor proficent with the lightsaber than Anakin, however, Mace may not be as proficent with Vapaad as Anakin is with Djem So. Sure Mace is the only one to master Vapaad, but Anakin clearly managed to master Djem So. No where does it say that Mace's skill with Vapaad surpasses Anakin's skill with Djem So.

"you have to be yoda or mace to challenge the emperor"

otherwise, they would've said "you have to be yoda, mace or anakin to challenge the emperor" (got that argument from someone...)

ares834 Senior Member

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"you have to be yoda or mace to challenge the emperor"

otherwise, they would've said "you have to be yoda, mace or anakin to challenge the emperor" (got that argument from someone...)


That serves as an ABC argument which dosn't work.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by ares834
That serves as an ABC argument which dosn't work.
To an extent it does. Whether or not Anakin is the master of Djem So, it doesn't provide him with additional skill and strength, unlike Vaapad. And if Anakin didn't need anything additional, then he would have been capable of handling the Emperor. But as we all know, he wasn't.

Eminence Boss

Originally posted by ares834
I never said I doubt that Mace is mor proficent with the lightsaber than Anakin, however, Mace may not be as proficent with Vapaad as Anakin is with Djem So. Sure Mace is the only one to master Vapaad, but Anakin clearly managed to master Djem So. No where does it say that Mace's skill with Vapaad surpasses Anakin's skill with Djem So.
That's absolutely retarded. Anakin is the finest Djem So practitioner Dooku has ever seen... ergo he's more skilled in that form than a man who a.) has "a high-level mastery of multiple forms, and b.) created and perfected his own form.

And again, prove that Anakin had mastered Djem So. Go ahead.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted
Originally posted by ares834
That serves as an ABC argument which dosn't work.

You seem to think that if it's an ABC argument than it doesn't work. Then what if they had Ben take over the NJO and become grandmaster, and then Sidious comes back even more powerful than before and Ben wtf pwns him unarmed blindfolded? And then they have a thread "Ben vs battle droid" and someone says "Ben wins! He pwned the Emperor and Sidious could pwn a battle droid!". Would it make sense for a battle droid supporter to say "that's an ABC argument and it's just the first book of the series and that's the only fight Ben's been in so he has no feats except for that which is invalid because it's an ABC! So therefore he loses by default because he has no feats!"

ares834 Senior Member

Originally posted by Eminence
That's absolutely retarded. Anakin is the finest Djem So practitioner Dooku has ever seen... ergo he's more skilled in that form than a man who a.) has "a [b]high-level mastery of multiple forms, and b.) created and perfected his own form.

And again, prove that Anakin had mastered Djem So. Go ahead. [/B]


What's "Absolutley retarded"? I simply do not understand? You seem to belive Mace would destroy Anakin because he is the only one who has mastered Vapaad. I'll put it in a real life sitiuation. If I create a new Karate form and master it along with plenty of other Karate forms, it dosn't mean I would be able to best a person who has not yet mastered as many Karate froms as me, ashe could be faster, stronger, or just plain better.

However, Anakin has mastered Djem So, Dooku claims he is the finest practicioner he has ever seen, that screams mastered to me.

ares834 Senior Member

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
You seem to think that if it's an ABC argument than it doesn't work. Then what if they had Ben take over the NJO and become grandmaster, and then Sidious comes back even more powerful than before and Ben wtf pwns him unarmed blindfolded? And then they have a thread "Ben vs battle droid" and someone says "Ben wins! He pwned the Emperor and Sidious could pwn a battle droid!". Would it make sense for a battle droid supporter to say "that's an ABC argument and it's just the first book of the series and that's the only fight Ben's been in so he has no feats except for that which is invalid because it's an ABC! So therefore he loses by default because he has no feats!"

If the Dooku>Windu, Anakin>Dooku, thus Anakin>Windu dosn't work neither should Windu>Sidious, Sidious>Anakin, thus Windu>Anakin.

Eminence Boss

Originally posted by ares834
What's "Absolutley retarded"? I simply do not understand? You seem to belive Mace would destroy Anakin because he is the only one who has mastered Vapaad.
I've made it pretty clear why I think Mace would beat Anakin. The kid is scary when he uses the dark side, but if he does Mace kicks his ass [Vaapad]. When he's trying to fight without cutting loose and giving in to his rage, he holds himself back, and as a result he isn't as strong.

I'll put it in a real life sitiuation. If I create a new Karate form and master it along with plenty of other Karate forms, it dosn't mean I would be able to best a person who has not yet mastered as many Karate froms as me, ashe could be faster, stronger, or just plain better.
Except in this case Mace is faster, stronger, and just plain better than Anakin.

However, Anakin has mastered Djem So, Dooku claims he is the finest practicioner he has ever seen, that screams mastered to me.
That's not proof of mastery, it's a potential indication of it. You'd never be able to actually build a case for Anakin fully mastering the form off of that one statement.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted
Originally posted by ares834
If the Dooku>Windu, Anakin>Dooku, thus Anakin>Windu dosn't work neither should Windu>Sidious, Sidious>Anakin, thus Windu>Anakin.

In some cases, ABC doesn't work. But in other cases, it does. If a "superclonetrooper" wtf pwns 10 destroyer droids, then it can be assumed that it could also wtf pwn 10 battle droids (destroyers > battle droids) unless if him beating the destroyers involves something like causing their shields to devour the droids or something that won't apply to the battle droids.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Eminence
Anakin ran away.

To go save Aashoka after having Dooku at his mercy. You are so in denial.

Originally posted by Eminence
Notice how all but one time when Dooku knocked Anakin down, he simply stood there and waited for him to get back up..

doesnt matter because when he tried to kill him after the first time he knocked him down, he culdnt. and he tried his best. Anakin can obviously take force hits.

Originally posted by Eminence
Vaapad is "the deadliest" of all forms.

Because it gives the user extra power. Extra Power which Mace would need when going up against Anakin. But when it comes to technical skill in Swordfighting, Djem So is better. Its specifically designed for that. Vapaad is not.

Originally posted by Eminence
Prove he mastered it. Go find me a canon source. Then prove that, like Mace Windu, Anakin had "high-level [b]mastery of multiple forms." [/B]

The Fact that Dooku who was a former lightsaber instructor at the Temple, has never seen ANYONE better at it is NOt proof to you that he completely Mastered it??? Or the fact he was as Skilled as Kenobi was at Soresu?? Your just in denial.

Oh and hows Mace being a Master of multiple forms going to help?? Dooku was also trained in all forms.. didnt help him. The fact is Mace is going to use Vapaad, and Anakin Djem So.. Theres no eveidence that Mace is better at Vapaad than Anakin is at Djem So. The fact that Mace Created Vapaad means Jack.

Originally posted by Eminence
We've been over this three times. You're horribly wrong, give it up.

Dnt need to. Youve not given any proof Mace is better at anything. Your just using your Mace fanbyism as an argument. Your Resorting to lies like Anakin ran away from Dooku. And completely in Denial about Anakins Mastery of Djem So.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"you have to be yoda or mace to challenge the emperor"

Mace can comepte with Sidious because of Vapaad's superconducting loop. He wnt be that fast or powerful when fighting Anakin.

Notice how Lucas didnt say You have to be Yoda or Sidious to compete with Mace

SIDIOUS 66 Senior Member

Kenobi and Anakin both could not even take Ventress, together.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Mace can comepte with Sidious because of Vapaad's superconducting loop. He wnt be that fast or powerful when fighting Anakin.

Notice how Lucas didnt say You have to be Yoda or Sidious to compete with Mace

If you can take Mace and overwhelm his Vaapad and counter his Shatterpoint, then logically speaking you have skill and power enough to take on Sidious (maybe not beat, but take on). As Anakin doesn't...

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Mace can comepte with Sidious because of Vapaad's superconducting loop. He wnt be that fast or powerful when fighting Anakin.

Notice how Lucas didnt say You have to be Yoda or Sidious to compete with Mace

Note that George Lucas didn't say "You have to be Mace or Sidious to compete with a battle droid". Therefore, by your logic, a Mace could not beat a battle droid. GL doesn't say "you have to be X or Y to beat A" for everybody, infact he only did it once.

Either way, Anakin can NOT beat Mace. Mace Windu is one of the most powerful jedi or sith ever.

Eminence Boss

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
To go save Aashoka after having Dooku at his mercy. You are so in denial.
You should probably watch the fight before talking out of your ass. Notice how Dooku knocks Anakin to the ground [third time] with a Force-push [second time], then stands back and pulls out his hologram. He taunts and angers Anakin, who then hops up and punches Dooku, who is now holding the hologram in one hand and wielding his lightsaber with the other. He doesn't overpower him, he doesn't beat him through a show of skill.

Hell, he doesn't even beat him. Anyone with an ounce of sense would see clearly that Dooku had the upper hand in that duel the entire time.

doesnt matter because when he tried to kill him after the first time he knocked him down, he culdnt. and he tried his best. Anakin can obviously take force hits.
Oh, he takes Force hits all the time. Problem is that they usually end up knocking him on his ass, which is sort of a problem.

Because it gives the user extra power. Extra Power which Mace would need when going up against Anakin. But when it comes to technical skill in Swordfighting, Djem So is better. Its specifically designed for that. Vapaad is not.
Read the earlier posts on the matter.

The Fact that Dooku who was a former lightsaber instructor at the Temple, has never seen ANYONE better at it is NOt proof to you that he completely Mastered it??? Or the fact he was as Skilled as Kenobi was at Soresu?? Your just in denial.
Again, read. It isn't conclusive proof of mastery, it is a potential indication. Mace, meanwhile, is a confirmed "high-level master" of multiple forms, plus Juyo, plus Vaapad.

Oh and hows Mace being a Master of multiple forms going to help?? Dooku was also trained in all forms.. didnt help him. The fact is Mace is going to use Vapaad, and Anakin Djem So.. Theres no eveidence that Mace is better at Vapaad than Anakin is at Djem So. The fact that Mace Created Vapaad means Jack.
Now you're just being retarded.

Dnt need to. Youve not given any proof Mace is better at anything. Your just using your Mace fanbyism as an argument. Your Resorting to lies like Anakin ran away from Dooku. And completely in Denial about Anakins Mastery of Djem So.
Reported for the fanboy remark, because it's the third time you've said it without any substantiation and, surprisingly enough, you're not nearly as entertaining as the usual trolls.

ares834 Senior Member

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Kenobi and Anakin both could not even take Ventress, together.
Wrong. Anakin has soloed her a couple of times.

Eminence Boss

True, but only with heavy use of the dark side. She was dominating him in their second duel before she scarred him, which pretty much put him over the edge.

Kodiak Senior Member

Anakin<Mace
Vaapad ftw! Mace was probably the best jedi in the entire order at that time, except for Yoda.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If you can take Mace and overwhelm his Vaapad and counter his Shatterpoint, then logically speaking you have skill and power enough to take on Sidious (maybe not beat, but take on). As Anakin doesn't...

well if your just talking about "Taking them On" with no chance of actually defeating them.... then Dooku can Take On Yoda, so it would be silly to think Anakin cant even "Take On" Sidious.

Or do you really think hed go down in a second Like Agen Kolar??

And we already know Dooku culdnt take Anakin out with the Force as easily as he could Obi-Wan, so we know Anakin has much resistance to Force Attacks than the likes of Obi-Wan.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Note that George Lucas didn't say "You have to be Mace or Sidious to compete with a battle droid". Therefore, by your logic, a Mace could not beat a battle droid. GL doesn't say "you have to be X or Y to beat A" for everybody, infact he only did it once.

No because weve seen Mace and lesser Jedis take down Battle Droids plenty of times.

My point is you cant use ABC logic like that. Just because you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious DOES NOT MEAN you have to be Yoda or Sidious to compete with Mace.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Either way, Anakin can NOT beat Mace. Mace Windu is one of the most powerful jedi or sith ever.

So was Count Dooku. And look what Anakin did to him.