Originally posted by omgchosWell, we never know what his true range is from that point on. For all we know, after that, he can jump anywhere he wishes.
Well sorta it took him a bit to get used to it... but it still has a limited range.
BUT....He isnt shown on screen jumping anywhere he wishes like Griffin does. Thats all that matters.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nope, I already said I can see him each time, that he is attacking as he appears, and that the clouds take several seconds to dissipate and are all over the place make it LOOK like he is everywhere at once.
See, here's where it gets odd, as he clearly can't be seen, it's just shadows and shit, when he tp's-attacks-tp's, starting at that 1:34 marker, only actually seeing him when it all slows down.
So I'm left wondering if you're just crazy and have actually convinced yourself you can see something that isn't there or if you're so arrogant and committed to your original stance that you're willing to lie no matter what.
I'm not sure why this thread has gone on so long.
Nightcrawler clearly wins this.
There's no denying that Griffin has more fighting potential than Nightcrawler's abilities. However, Griffin's h2h is not anywhere near Nightcrawlers.
This was a good thread in theory, but once you get down to it, Nightcrawler is just better at fighting.
Griffin's teleporting abilities>>>Nighcrawler's. However, Nightcrawler makes much more efficient use of his abilities making Nightcrawler the obvious better fighting fighter.
Nightcrawler also has physical strength over Griffin, unless he can do the straight line quick port thing, his punches ain't gonna hit Kurt. Kurt however, was one shotting the Secret Service, guys who have to be physically fit and strong. He even threw a more than likely 200+lb man several feet with his tail, while not really putting much effort into it.
Originally posted by RobtardShadows? A tan overcoat colored shadow? Riiiiiiiiight. Buy some glasses, I can SEE HIM, every damn time. Its an OPTICAL ILLUSION, man.
See, here's where it gets odd, as he clearly can't be seen, it's just shadows and shit, when he tp's-attacks-tp's, starting at that 1:34 marker, only actually seeing him when it all slows down.So I'm left wondering if you're just crazy and have actually convinced yourself you can see something that isn't there or if you're so arrogant and committed to your original stance that you're willing to lie no matter what.
You have been proven wrong at every point. Here are the facts, AGAIN:
Griffin displays strength NC never does by hurling Roland through a stone wall (Even though his jumping created the momentum needed)
Griffin jumps faster.
Griffin jumps farther.
Griffin can jump anything that moves at NC, from anywhere in the world.
The only advantage NC has is h2h combat and agility, and probably physical speed.
Originally posted by dadudemonThink about it, You really think Griffin is gonna go h2h with NC? NOPE.
I'm not sure why this thread has gone on so long.Nightcrawler clearly wins this.
There's no denying that Griffin has more fighting potential than Nightcrawler's abilities. However, Griffin's h2h is not anywhere near Nightcrawlers.
This was a good thread in theory, but once you get down to it, Nightcrawler is just better at fighting.
Griffin's teleporting abilities>>>Nighcrawler's. However, Nightcrawler makes much more efficient use of his abilities making Nightcrawler the obvious better fighting fighter.
Whats NC gonna do when Griffin is jumping all over the world, returning with anything that moves as a weapon?
Yes, NC pwns Griffin h2h, but one would have to be brain dead to think Griffin would go h2h.
More efficient use of his abilities? You mean he jumps slower and not near as far? Well yeah.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Think about it, You really think Griffin is gonna go h2h with NC? NOPE.Whats NC gonna do when Griffin is jumping all over the world, returning with anything that moves as a weapon?
Yes, NC pwns Griffin h2h, but one would have to be brain dead to think Griffin would go h2h.
More efficient use of his abilities? You mean he jumps slower and not near as far? Well yeah.
We don't ever see Griffin, very rapidly, disappear and reappear, and take out a room filed with those agents, with a different strike intended just for that person.
Sure, Griffin can teleport in more rapid succession...but we only see him do it once, in a straight line, at one person. He never shows that ability to do that anymore. Nightcrawler, though not as fast...but not far behind, disappears and reappears in rapid succession as well, in different parts of a room, with a strike specific to each person. Nightcrawler is just better at the "jumping" than Griffin, probably because he thinks faster, being a mutant and all.
There was that scene with Griffin in the Colosseum where he fights those agents, however, it doesn't come close to being as efficient as NC's taking down more agents in a smaller space...when they were firing their guns.
Now, we can say something like....
Griffin grabs a rocket, fires it right before jumping, and jumps right near to NC, allows it to impact, and jumps before he receives any damage.
Hell, you could take it even further and say Griffin grabs a nuke, detonates it a mile away, jumps away, and NC loses no matter what.
No one is denying that Griffin is the better "jumper" as far as distance and what can be "jumped", however, NC is more intelligent with his Jumping ability and can use it better...despite his less than Griffin abilities.
Originally posted by dadudemonHow many times must I acknowledge that NC is a better h2h combatant? And yes, Griffin jumps near instantaneous jumps all through the movie. Rice Bowl does too, the jumpers are superior in every way to NC, as far as teleporting goes. It's like comparing an F16 to an A4.
We don't ever see Griffin, very rapidly, disappear and reappear, and take out a room filed with those agents, with a different strike intended just for that person.
Sure, Griffin can teleport in more rapid succession...but we only see him do it once, in a straight line, at one person. He never shows that ability to do that anymore. Nightcrawler, though not as fast...but not far behind, disappears and reappears in rapid succession as well, in different parts of a room, with a strike specific to each person. Nightcrawler is just better at the "jumping" than Griffin, probably because he thinks faster, being a mutant and all.So, more of "Hey, he only did it once, he can't do it at will?" Get real dude. NC only attacked and cleared the oval office once, would I be justified in saying he can't do that anytime he wishes? You are smarter than that.
There was that scene with Griffin in the Colosseum where he fights those agents, however, it doesn't come close to being as efficient as NC's taking down more agents in a smaller space...when they were firing their guns.[/qote] And it is quite obvious Griffin is toying with tose paladins, all he had to do to end it in seconds was jump a car, or come back with an assault rifle, or......You get it, Griffin's potential for finding ways to kill someone using his jumping abilities is practically limitless. All NC is going to be able to do is HOPE he gets close enough for h2h. Hope in one hand, shit in the other, see which fills up first.You just proved my point, Griffin has an infinite number of ways to kill NC. NC will never catch Griffin.[quote]Now, we can say something like....
Griffin grabs a rocket, fires it right before jumping, and jumps right near to NC, allows it to impact, and jumps before he receives any damage.
Hell, you could take it even further and say Griffin grabs a nuke, detonates it a mile away, jumps away, and NC loses no matter what.
No one is denying that Griffin is the better "jumper" as far as distance and what can be "jumped", however, NC is more intelligent with his Jumping ability and can use it better...despite his less than Griffin abilities.
Curious what you mean by "more intelligent" with his jumps. And how he can "Use it better." Because that kinda contradicts you saying Griffin is a better jumper. Also, not sure how this will save NC when cars and tanks and planes and whatever else Griffin chooses is flying at him.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How many times must I acknowledge that NC is a better h2h combatant? And yes, Griffin jumps near instantaneous jumps all through the movie. Rice Bowl does too, the jumpers are superior in every way to NC, as far as teleporting goes. It's like comparing an F16 to an A4.
H2H has nothing to do with the fact that NC is better at jumping for combat use.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So, more of "Hey, he only did it once, he can't do it at will?" Get real dude. NC only attacked and cleared the oval office once, would I be justified in saying he can't do that anytime he wishes? You are smarter than that.
It's not that Griffin can't do it again, it's that it was a very limited use. We only see him use it once when he was really pissed. He only used it on one person, and he used it in a straight line. Straight line doesn't do him too well against NC, does it? NC isn't far behind in speed of jumping...but instead of one time use, he can do it a lot...a whole lot...in succession, and in in 3d space instead of a straight line.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You just proved my point, Griffin has an infinite number of ways to kill NC. NC will never catch Griffin.
Indeed. But Griffin gets knocked out before he realizes he's outclassed in short range jumping.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Curious what you mean by "more intelligent" with his jumps. And how he can "Use it better." Because that kinda contradicts you saying Griffin is a better jumper. Also, not sure how this will save NC when cars and tanks and planes and whatever else Griffin chooses is flying at him.
I'll quote myself to show you what I mean:
"It's not that Griffin can't do it again, it's that it was a very limited use. We only see him use it once when he was really pissed. He only used it on one person, and he used it in a straight line. Straight line doesn't do him too well against NC, does it? NC isn't far behind in speed of jumping...but instead of one time use, he can do it a lot...a whole lot...in succession, and in in 3d space instead of a straight line."
If Griffin is that "intelligent" with his use on Jumping, then he would have taken out all of those agents, in less than 2 seconds, in the Colessuem. Since he isn't even close to NC in the ability to employe his Jumping intelligently like that, NC curb stomps G before G realizes he's outclassed in jumping application.
Originally posted by dadudemonGriffin jumps faster and farther, and can jump anything that moves as a weapon. But I guess that has no bearing in this matchup, does it? I guess Griffin will go all Mortal Kombat and try to take NC on h2h, right?
H2H has nothing to do with the fact that NC is better at jumping for combat use.
It's not that Griffin can't do it again, it's that it was a very limited use. We only see him use it once when he was really pissed. He only used it on one person, and he used it in a straight line. Straight line doesn't do him too well against NC, does it? NC isn't far behind in speed of jumping...but instead of one time use, he can do it a lot...a whole lot...in succession, and in in 3d space instead of a straight line.When in "Jumper" is it implied that jumping like that is "very limited", or can only be done in a straight line? Griffin is jumping all over the coliseum instantaneously, far faster than NC ever jumped.
Indeed. But Griffin gets knocked out before he realizes he's outclassed in short range jumping.How? How does NC close the gap? How does NC keep Griffin from jumping all over the world? He CANT.
This battle will come down to who is better at jumping, and it's so evident that Griffin is the superior jumper it aint even funny.
I'll quote myself to show you what I mean:As I said before, Griffin spends most of the coliseum battle toying with the paladins. All he had to do was drop them with the sharks. The coliseum battle was like a game to him, those paladins were rookies."It's not that Griffin can't do it again, it's that it was a very limited use. We only see him use it once when he was really pissed. He only used it on one person, and he used it in a straight line. Straight line doesn't do him too well against NC, does it? NC isn't far behind in speed of jumping...but instead of one time use, he can do it a lot...a whole lot...in succession, and in in 3d space instead of a straight line."
If Griffin is that "intelligent" with his use on Jumping, then he would have taken out all of those agents, in less than 2 seconds, in the Colessuem. Since he isn't even close to NC in the ability to employe his Jumping intelligently like that, NC curb stomps G before G realizes he's outclassed in jumping application.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Griffin jumps faster and farther, and can jump anything that moves as a weapon. But I guess that has no bearing in this matchup, does it? I guess Griffin will go all Mortal Kombat and try to take NC on h2h, right?
Yes, that's correct. Griffin appears to do that first. If that fails, he tries other things. We have to go by the movies, not what WE would do. Griffin would try to beat up Nightcrawler.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When in "Jumper" is it implied that jumping like that is "very limited", or can only be done in a straight line? Griffin is jumping all over the coliseum instantaneously, far faster than NC ever jumped.
Show me, anywhere, where Griffin uses that rapid jumping ability, other than a straight line, down a long hall, at one person. If you show me that he uses it to basically "blink" in many parts of a room, just like NC, then I'll agree with you.
Since I've seen both movies, I know Griffin only does it that one time.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How? How does NC close the gap? How does NC keep Griffin from jumping all over the world? He CANT.
You mean, how does Griffin close the gap, right? Griffin will be knocked out very quickly afte the fight starts.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This battle will come down to who is better at jumping, and it's so evident that Griffin is the superior jumper it aint even funny.
No, it comes down to who is better at using jumping in "combat". And that's obviously NC.
Also, who's to say that NC can't follow Griffin through his wakes? NC doesn't leave wakes, does he? I don't remember that in the movie, nor is it in the comic. It's just "poof" and he's gone.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
As I said before, Griffin spends most of the coliseum battle toying with the paladins. All he had to do was drop them with the sharks. The coliseum battle was like a game to him, those paladins were rookies.
No, he was going at it. He gave it a nice go, as the Brits would say. I believe he got struck a few times...it wasn't perfect peachy for him.
And it comes down to who can deliver the first blow and that's NC.
NC has faster reflexes...because that's the kind of Mutant he is.
Originally posted by dadudemonWhen did I bring "Us" into this?
Yes, that's correct. Griffin appears to do that first. If that fails, he tries other things. We have to go by the movies, not what WE would do. Griffin would try to beat up Nightcrawler.
Griffin aint gonna go h2h with someone he knows is out of his league, now you are saying that he is some kind of an idiot.
Show me, anywhere, where Griffin uses that rapid jumping ability, other than a straight line, down a long hall, at one person. If you show me that he uses it to basically "blink" in many parts of a room, just like NC, then I'll agree with you.OK, show me where NC does his super uber jumping outside the oval office. That works both ways, you know. NC is only shown jumping like that while under Strykers influence, thats right. Show me another scene in X2 where he jumps/fights like that.Since I've seen both movies, I know Griffin only does it that one time.
See how stupid that sounds?
You mean, how does Griffin close the gap, right? Griffin will be knocked out very quickly afte the fight starts.Griffin wont need or want to close the gap. He'd be a fool to do so. If you fight Mike Tyson, you gonna go toe to toe with him? Case closed.
No, it comes down to who is better at using jumping in "combat". And that's obviously NC.Right. And Griffin being able to jump ANYWHERE and return with ANYTHING THAT MOVES means shit, right? 🙄
Also, who's to say that NC can't follow Griffin through his wakes? NC doesn't leave wakes, does he? I don't remember that in the movie, nor is it in the comic. It's just "poof" and he's gone.Two different kinds of teleporters, no way can NC follow Griffin. NC isnt shown following any other jumpers, nor are any shown following him, so he cant do it. Doesnt matter if there are no other jumpers around for NC to follow, fact is that it is not shown onscreen. Nice try though.
No, he was going at it. He gave it a nice go, as the Brits would say. I believe he got struck a few times...it wasn't perfect peachy for him.OK lets kick it:
Griffin is peeing, Rice bowl starts talking to him, the Paladins appear.
Rice bowl disappears, Griffin says "Just me then."
Combat ensues.
Paladins start shooting, Griffin is jumping.
Then it shows Billie droolio
Then Griffin is all over the columns in the coliseum, faster than NC could have been.
"Lemmee know if you guys are getting tired."
Paladin near misses him as Griffin jumps away.
Griffin "Close."
Rice bowl is getting pwned.
Griffin is beating the shit out of the Paladins.
Griffin "Right, lets meet the GF shall we?"
Griffin slams the Paladin into a wall.
Griffin throws another Paladin off a column.
Griffin "Paladins kill jumpers, I kill Paladins, class dismissed."
POLICIA!!!
Griffin grabbed the Paladin and is gone in the blink of an eye. Rice bowl follows and INSTANTLY appears in Griffins lair.
So..............Where did Griffin get tagged? You tell me. And "Lemmee know if you boys are getting tired" is proof he was toying with them.
And it comes down to who can deliver the first blow and that's NC.And Griffin's jumping abilities totally outclass NC's, and thats all the edge Griffin needs.NC has faster reflexes...because that's the kind of Mutant he is.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Shadows? A tan overcoat colored shadow? Riiiiiiiiight. Buy some glasses, I can SEE HIM, every damn time. Its an OPTICAL ILLUSION, man.You have been proven wrong at every point. Here are the facts, AGAIN:
Griffin displays strength NC never does by hurling Roland through a stone wall (Even though his jumping created the momentum needed)
Griffin jumps faster.
Griffin jumps farther.
Griffin can jump anything that moves at NC, from anywhere in the world.
The only advantage NC has is h2h combat and agility, and probably physical speed.
Na. You clearly are wanting to see something that isn't there and are purposely ignoring the reason for the camera slowing down.
That's a laughable na, we've all shown you to be incorrect time and time again.
Okay, that was a neat trick, that momentum-jump, he'd have to catch NC first; considering NC is fast, more agile and can TP faster (yes, you're wrong), Griffin is going down before that happens.
Wrong, as shown in the clip
Yes, we ALL AGREE Griffin can jump further.
Okay, we've covered this, a car, bus or tank isn't going to hit a guy who avoided multiple gun fire in a small room.
All that and he can tp-attack-tp far faster. Ergo, it's why NC wins here.
Originally posted by Robtard
Na. You clearly are wanting to see something that isn't there and are purposely ignoring the reason for the camera slowing down.That's a laughable na, we've all shown you to be incorrect time and time again.
Okay, that was a neat trick, that momentum-jump, he'd have to catch NC first; considering NC is fast, more agile and can TP faster (yes, you're wrong), Griffin is going down before that happens.
Wrong, as shown in the clip
Yes, we ALL AGREE Griffin can jump further.
Okay, we've covered this, a car, bus or tank isn't going to hit a guy who avoided multiple gun fire in a small room.
All that and he can tp-attack-tp far faster. Ergo, it's why NC wins here.
NC's true attack speed is shown in the hallways outside the oval office, thats where the delay can be seen between jumps. Open your eyes, dude, it's right there in the vid. Whats laughable is that you are falling for camera tricks instead of focusing on NC shown at full speed in the hallways, which, sorry to say, is shit compared to Griffin, hell, even to Rice Bowl.
And NC would have to catch Griffin first. How, pray tell, is NC gonna get close enough to Griffin to go h2h? Hmm?
No way is NC faster than Griffin. Just face it, The "Jumper" teleporters are on a whole different level than NC. Compare Hancock to Spider man, you get the idea. Compare Hulk to Wolverine, thats another fair comparison. In no way, shape or form is NC as fast or as powerful a Jumper as Griffin is. Go ahead, tell me I am full of shit, tell me that NC is faster and better, you know deep down it just aint true.
NC avoided gunfire from STATIONARY AGENTS. Griffin will be all over the world, faster than NC can follow, with objects coming at him from all angles. How's he gonna defend against that? Wait, dont answer that, he CANT.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When did I bring "Us" into this?Griffin aint gonna go h2h with someone he knows is out of his league, now you are saying that he is some kind of an idiot.
I was clarifying before it got off as a tangent. Some times, we (as in, all of use) start saying things that WE would do in the scenario so we have to come back down to reality and make sure we are also sticking with the personalities of the characters.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, show me where NC does his super uber jumping outside the oval office. That works both ways, you know. NC is only shown jumping like that while under Strykers influence, thats right. Show me another scene in X2 where he jumps/fights like that.See how stupid that sounds?
Sort of..but not really. That doesn't work. You see, NC was brainwashed with that mutant's brain control liquid thingie. That's all NC with those abilities...he's just been tricked and brain washed into doing things he doesn't normally want to. Case in point, Xavier almost killing all humans or mutants beacuse he was under the same control...that was all Xavier, bro.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Griffin wont need or want to close the gap. He'd be a fool to do so. If you fight Mike Tyson, you gonna go toe to toe with him? Case closed.
NC was established as being able to "jump" wherever he can see unless he's got a hot black chick in his arms.
So, if you want to get technical and be all uber n'stuff.
NC jumps right out of the sensory range of Griffin, but still well within his own uber mutant sensory range, then teleports right behind Griffin and knocks him out....that sounds remarkably similar to what NC did to everyone in the office...sounds in character enough. There, let's go with that. 😄
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right. And Griffin being able to jump ANYWHERE and return with ANYTHING THAT MOVES means shit, right? 🙄
Yup. He can't jump if he's knocked out, right? 😉
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Two different kinds of teleporters, no way can NC follow Griffin. NC isnt shown following any other jumpers, nor are any shown following him, so he cant do it. Doesnt matter if there are no other jumpers around for NC to follow, fact is that it is not shown onscreen. Nice try though.
How do you know? the humans were certainly capable of prying it open large enough to fit through. Who knows what NC could do with his senses...maybe he could follow the wake like the humans without having to pry it open? AHA! 😆
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK lets kick it:Griffin is peeing, Rice bowl starts talking to him, the Paladins appear.
Rice bowl disappears, Griffin says "Just me then."
Combat ensues.
Paladins start shooting, Griffin is jumping.
Then it shows Billie droolio
Then Griffin is all over the columns in the coliseum, faster than NC could have been.
"Lemmee know if you guys are getting tired."
Paladin near misses him as Griffin jumps away.
Griffin "Close."
Rice bowl is getting pwned.
Griffin is beating the shit out of the Paladins.
Griffin "Right, lets meet the GF shall we?"
Griffin slams the Paladin into a wall.
Griffin throws another Paladin off a column.
Griffin "Paladins kill jumpers, I kill Paladins, class dismissed."
POLICIA!!!
Griffin grabbed the Paladin and is gone in the blink of an eye. Rice bowl follows and INSTANTLY appears in Griffins lair.
Cool.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So..............Where did Griffin get tagged? You tell me. And "Lemmee know if you boys are getting tired" is proof he was toying with them.
So, Griffin remains untagged by the paladins the whole movie?
That's not what I remember. I could have sworn he eventually got the beat down from the Paladins.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Griffin's jumping abilities totally outclass NC's, and thats all the edge Griffin needs.
In terms of distance and things that can be teleported, you betcha. As far as the ability to use it in combat, NC has the advantage.
If NC and Griffin were playing jump games, sure, I'd give it to Griffin.